Root Aphids

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Chobble

Chobble

Alright, Im pretty sure I have Root Aphids (Grape phylloxera). They're native to my region and prefer soil types like those I work in at two organic gardens in the county. Its also very possible that a winged variety (Thought to be sterile) have infested my indoor Rooting tray (That's all I know for sure). The largest ones, Im assuming the females have a pear shaped body with a red butt and brown/grey front. This meets the description of root aphids (I've never dealt with them before, thus my post). There are also what look to be babies crawling around that are a lighter green color.

Now a note about the winged variety, I had a type of fruit fly, that I'm now realizing may not be a fruit fly. It started in the house with some rotting fruit and the trash then that got cleaned up and tossed in the trash can, Well my air intake is near the trash can.... Needless to say I saw one of those exact flys that I have been fighting a battle with living on my flowering plants, I've been watching them multiply though and its not in the same manor as these mites/Aphids but none the less I saw one of these winged variety's climbing through my riot plug.

Im on a very strict budget and could really use some advise on how to counter these guys. Any clones with a visible infestation have been tossed, The trays are all being washed now and Im going to change clothes and go back in to inspect the roots of my other plants.

Chobble
 
Chobble

Chobble

So I've now confirmed they're phylloxera.... These mother f'rs are going to be hard to get rid of...
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
I found that imidacloprid was not very effective at dealing the death blow when I had RAs. If I had something like Capulator's beneficials to try first, I would have in a heartbeat. I cannot say whether or not they work, but it makes sense to me given my own experience.

I had two concurrent grows going on the first time I got them, both outdoors. One was my all-organic SFW soil grow (soil food web), the other was perlite hempy tubs using chemical salts. The perlite hempy tubs were the first to become infected, but I thought it was just some kind of Super Fungus Gnat and didn't treat. The second infection was my indoor coir grow, and it took rock solid genetics going hermie on me to convince me I had a real and serious problem. By then it was too late for any good, effective treatment, but I found that Spectracide with Triazicide, used as a long-term root drench (flooded my tables for several hours each time) did the trick. Others have found it doesn't do a thing for them.

In any event, part of my point was that my organic soil ladies never experienced a single hiccup. Not a one. So, my guess is/was that the SFW of life helped prevent strong establishment of a RA population. That means that I think that Capulator's beneficials would be the first, not last, thing I would try. I would prefer those to the Spectracide I ended up using.
 
Chobble

Chobble

I found that imidacloprid was not very effective at dealing the death blow when I had RAs. If I had something like Capulator's beneficials to try first, I would have in a heartbeat. I cannot say whether or not they work, but it makes sense to me given my own experience.

I had two concurrent grows going on the first time I got them, both outdoors. One was my all-organic SFW soil grow (soil food web), the other was perlite hempy tubs using chemical salts. The perlite hempy tubs were the first to become infected, but I thought it was just some kind of Super Fungus Gnat and didn't treat. The second infection was my indoor coir grow, and it took rock solid genetics going hermie on me to convince me I had a real and serious problem. By then it was too late for any good, effective treatment, but I found that Spectracide with Triazicide, used as a long-term root drench (flooded my tables for several hours each time) did the trick. Others have found it doesn't do a thing for them.

In any event, part of my point was that my organic soil ladies never experienced a single hiccup. Not a one. So, my guess is/was that the SFW of life helped prevent strong establishment of a RA population. That means that I think that Capulator's beneficials would be the first, not last, thing I would try. I would prefer those to the Spectracide I ended up using.

I completely agree with you, The great news though is I'm broke and buying these products are somewhat out of the question. Now, I know what caused my hermies it must have been those god damn RA's >.> Im going to go speak to some botany proffesors at the local UC and see if they cant help me with any solutions that wont cost me a penny (Or Maybe I can steal some of the bacterial cultures from them)... I do really want to try out CAP's bennies.

The only thing I thought about was that I may end up killing all these bennies by drenching the soil and then using pesticides.

I feel like Killing an intial amount of the population + a horrible disease rampaging through them should do the trick.

Thoughts?

Chobb
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
The only other treatment I've read about, and shared the paper (which a grape grower says isn't as effective as reported in said paper) is a 5min dunk in 125*F water. The folks who've written back to report on it say it kills cannabis, even well rooted. I've read of one person who used 120*F water and it was effective without killing his cannabis.

Yes, you will likely kill beneficials if you go the chemistry route. I didn't have a scope when I was dealing with them, but got one as soon as I could, and now don't have them.
 
Chobble

Chobble

The only other treatment I've read about, and shared the paper (which a grape grower says isn't as effective as reported in said paper) is a 5min dunk in 125*F water. The folks who've written back to report on it say it kills cannabis, even well rooted. I've read of one person who used 120*F water and it was effective without killing his cannabis.

Yes, you will likely kill beneficials if you go the chemistry route. I didn't have a scope when I was dealing with them, but got one as soon as I could, and now don't have them.

Well If I see that one of my mothers is truely infected (Has been strangely yellowing) then I will have no other choice then to try the warm water method, Ill come back with results if I try it.

Chobbs
 
C

cctt

In any event, part of my point was that my organic soil ladies never experienced a single hiccup. Not a one. So, my guess is/was that the SFW of life helped prevent strong establishment of a RA population.

My current thinking is that organic methods (and good inoculants) really help to prevent the secondary infections carried by RAs from taking hold. The aphids themselves are tenacious, but as far is I've seen their biggest danger is their ability to make the plant susceptible to other disease. A healthy microlife population seems to mitigate this.
 
Chobble

Chobble

Alright so I tested the 120 degree water method, I soaked the plants roots in 120 F water for about 10 minutes. Nothing immediately happened leading me to believe it was fine, I did notice some roots break off but I thought that could just be because the aphids had been at it.

Im about 72 Hours after the test now, The plants fan leaves are wilting over and some of the leaves have begun going necrotic. The stem that was submerged in the water is rather flimsy and weak. Upon inspection I did not see any aphids on the exterior privy to the test I had seen aphids though so posibbly it did have an effect on there population, Ill keep monitoring it.

Also tossing my Tea making stuff together to make some tea to fight the buggers.

Chobble
 
T

tomsawyer

Sierra Natural Science 203 Soil Drench works great
Azatrol/Azamax works great 1-2Tblspns per gal watered in.

Treat once a week. WOn't have a prob. I know. Both the above are organic. I like to throw in some Roots Excelurator and I have seen no bad effects.

Don't worry. Root aphids are a pain, but you just have to keep treating and you will be fine. I have had them many times and use the above methods. No sweat.
 
growuphydro

growuphydro

Alright, Im pretty sure I have Root Aphids (Grape phylloxera). They're native to my region and prefer soil types like those I work in at two organic gardens in the county. Its also very possible that a winged variety (Thought to be sterile) have infested my indoor Rooting tray (That's all I know for sure). The largest ones, Im assuming the females have a pear shaped body with a red butt and brown/grey front. This meets the description of root aphids (I've never dealt with them before, thus my post). There are also what look to be babies crawling around that are a lighter green color.

Now a note about the winged variety, I had a type of fruit fly, that I'm now realizing may not be a fruit fly. It started in the house with some rotting fruit and the trash then that got cleaned up and tossed in the trash can, Well my air intake is near the trash can.... Needless to say I saw one of those exact flys that I have been fighting a battle with living on my flowering plants, I've been watching them multiply though and its not in the same manor as these mites/Aphids but none the less I saw one of these winged variety's climbing through my riot plug.

Im on a very strict budget and could really use some advise on how to counter these guys. Any clones with a visible infestation have been tossed, The trays are all being washed now and Im going to change clothes and go back in to inspect the roots of my other plants.

Chobble
We do medical and the for sure cure was permethrin. The ant killer squirt bottle. Over population causes a conversion of female to males and they fly. The permethrin seems to have a 14-21 day hold. Just spray the over-populated area without over saturation. a mist over the rest. As they rise out of the soil the get contact with the spray. They mostly collect around the dripper. A light spray after at every 14 days, really helps. We do botaniquard as a secondary.
 
Chobble

Chobble

We do medical and the for sure cure was permethrin. The ant killer squirt bottle. Over population causes a conversion of female to males and they fly. The permethrin seems to have a 14-21 day hold. Just spray the over-populated area without over saturation. a mist over the rest. As they rise out of the soil the get contact with the spray. They mostly collect around the dripper. A light spray after at every 14 days, really helps. We do botaniquard as a secondary.

Permethrin is completely out of the question. It in no way is an organic pesticide and is certainly a poison. I would not advise using that to kill any bugs in your grow room.

Permethrin is a neuro toxin while it is not lethal to humans there are still many negative health risks and you should not be giving product treated with this pesticide to MMJ patients.

Chobble
 
growuphydro

growuphydro

I really appreciate ur honestly. Ur are totally right. It is nor an organic solution. Unfortunately roots aphids can kill ur crop. They fly and re-infest. The long term effects of continually attempting to control or the half fast treating of a pest that is resistant and hard to kill if far worse. Luckly they have live young. a knock down in veg is crucial. Remember it is used to treat head lice too. Drenching, say neem, can work. At the risk of misuse, it can kill a plant. I also mentioned Botaniquard. Unfortunately it does not work under high populations. Because of the application to the top of the soil (mist) and a dripper stake allows way less contact with it. We dug out the area with the infestion around the dripper. Re inserted new perlite. Two mist sprayings allow the botaniguard to work. I should have stated that every 14 days only for knock down for botaniguard. Botaniguard works for thrip, aphids and fungus gnats. Love botaniguard in controlled conditions only. Again, appreciate ur honestly. Thank u for clarifiying. I meant to offense.
 
Chobble

Chobble

I really appreciate ur honestly. Ur are totally right. It is nor an organic solution. Unfortunately roots aphids can kill ur crop. They fly and re-infest. The long term effects of continually attempting to control or the half fast treating of a pest that is resistant and hard to kill if far worse. Luckly they have live young. a knock down in veg is crucial. Remember it is used to treat head lice too. Drenching, say neem, can work. At the risk of misuse, it can kill a plant. I also mentioned Botaniquard. Unfortunately it does not work under high populations. Because of the application to the top of the soil (mist) and a dripper stake allows way less contact with it. We dug out the area with the infestion around the dripper. Re inserted new perlite. Two mist sprayings allow the botaniguard to work. I should have stated that every 14 days only for knock down for botaniguard. Botaniguard works for thrip, aphids and fungus gnats. Love botaniguard in controlled conditions only. Again, appreciate ur honestly. Thank u for clarifiying. I meant to offense.

No offense, I just have a hard time with people giving medicine to patients that have been tainted. I dont intend to drench with neem but I have been seeing great results with azatrol and I also want to get some of Caps bennies because that should deal the final blow with some biological warfare.

I advise just rethinking your methods and try researching safer alternatives, Organics the way to go! They're saying organic pesticides may even be stronger then those we create in labs.

Chobble
 
growuphydro

growuphydro

Thank U,
Botaniguard is a bacteria that has great effects on lower populations. The permethrin is only an extreme option in bad infestations in veg. Thank u.
 
fishwhistle

fishwhistle

caps bennies for the long term win.
 
Chobble

Chobble

I hit it with my own compost tea, I noticed the populations on a lot of the visible roots was lower almost gone. So I hit them with azamax today! Hopefully going to knock this infestation out!

Good huntin ;)

Chobble
 
nangonug

nangonug

Premium Member
Supporter
Do you have a picture of your bugs?
root aphid pre wing2.jpg
fungus knat.jpg
root aphid winged.jpg


Adult pre wing ra, fungas knat, root aphid winged stage. These are magnafied between 200 and 400 times. The size of ra in the first picture is actually smaller then this dot( . ) Very dificult to see with bare eye in dirt, I think some people think they are eliminating ra's when they actually are eliminating fungas knats and visa versa. Hope you get the upper hand.
 
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