Root Aphids

Mississip Hip · May 7, 2012

Ididn't read all the responses.

Merit 75 kills them all.

It has a 60 day systemic window...it is for VEG ONLY.

It will almost kill badly damaged older plants....new cuttings will never know they were treated.

I completely erradicated a horrible RA infestation with Merit alone. Caps bennies weren't around then.

Chobble · May 7, 2012

Mississip Hip said:
Ididn't read all the responses.

Merit 75 kills them all.

It has a 60 day systemic window...it is for VEG ONLY.

It will almost kill badly damaged older plants....new cuttings will never know they were treated.

I completely erradicated a horrible RA infestation with Merit alone. Caps bennies weren't around then.

Yeah the thread was mostly about non-pesticide ways to kill RA. There are lots and they work better :P

Chobble

Seamaiden · May 7, 2012

Burned Haze said:
If you make sure to let your plants fully dry before waterings it will lower your chances by quite q. Bit of aphids wanting to be there.

That's fantastic advice for people trying to get rid of fungus gnats. The research shows that it's a great way to increase RA populations.

Chobble · May 7, 2012

Seamaiden said:
That's fantastic advice for people trying to get rid of fungus gnats. The research shows that it's a great way to increase RA populations.

Well then the azamax worked better then expected ;) Also I saw a few flyers in the room the last few days. Killed them on sight. Still hitting em with Caps Bennies tea.

When using caps, Can I just dump it in or do I have to mix it in? I found some white sludge at the bottom of the barrel, Had a feeling that might not be what I want.

Chobble

leadsled · May 7, 2012

Out of sight out of mind. I bet you have not eradicated the little fuckers. better safe than sorry imho.

Chobble said:
Well then the azamax worked better then expected ;) Also I saw a few flyers in the room the last few days. Killed them on sight. Still hitting em with Caps Bennies tea.

When using caps, Can I just dump it in or do I have to mix it in? I found some white sludge at the bottom of the barrel, Had a feeling that might not be what I want.

Chobble

No not what you want at all.
Strain that shit really good. The white sludge is no good and will clog up your medium. Then you will be worse off than before, root aphids and the top of your pot looking like cement... FYL

Mississip Hip · May 7, 2012

Chobble said:
Yeah the thread was mostly about non-pesticide ways to kill RA. There are lots and they work better :p

Chobble

I've read about alot that work to knock them down for a reappearance later.

Didn't you say you still have fliers?!?....:confused:

What works better than Merit? I read this and still can tell.....

If it works better why are there RA flying around your spot?

leadsled · May 7, 2012

Mississip Hip said:
I've read about alot that work to knock them down for a reappearance later.

Didn't you say you still have fliers?!?....:confused:

What works better than Merit? I read this and still can tell.....

If it works better why are there RA flying around your spot?

I thought I was the only one who noticed that :)

FYI< Merit won't kill all types of root aphids. I know your trying to help, but your guiding people to waste $$ on a poison that may not work for them.

Let say you knew what type of root aphids you had then you could state hey I used merit 75 to kill root aphids of this type.

Get it?

Mississip Hip · May 7, 2012

What does work?

Disclaimer: I state what works for me.

I was one of the first people tp post up in lil miss one's EPIC RA thread...I was one of the first ones to whip them...

not that ANYONE would want to go read it...but I left a TON of info there about erradicating RA's.

I have kept up with this subject on different boards

Many many people act like bug experts...but I dont ever see any real authority IDing these things....its like a general stoner consensus is reached....and that is the answer...???

What RA's are there...that Merit wont kill?.........I bet a hundred the farmer that used it, didn't use it correctly.

I have talked to Bayer at length about Merit.

Why wont it work on certain RA's?........THATS the question you should be asking. Then you can find the correct pathway to kill them with...IF INDEED Merit doesn't work (which I doubt)

Seamaiden · May 7, 2012

Well, like *I* said, I tried the Bayer T&S first, twice, and it didn't work. Went with the Spectracide w/Triazicide, used in the same manner (flooded tables for several hours, ensuring total saturation of media), chosen because it's not a systemic, and that finally beat them.

Btw, I used the M75 on vegging plants, and perhaps I didn't have enough to thoroughly saturate, very different conditions in that area as compared to the flower room, but it did seem to take a while longer to see the results I was after and since I still saw fliers I hit it with the Spectra+Traiz.

I will reiterate, if I am hit with them again, I will use other methods first instead of going with these, I will do whatever I can to avoid using this kind of stuff again. It left a foul taste in my mouth, and that's meant much more so in the figurative sense than literal (the bud that I got from these plants was beyond 'sub-par', unusable IMO, so I destroyed it).

Mississip Hip · May 7, 2012

Did the Merit ruin the weed or was it the damage from the RA's?

I had the same thing......larf city....lol.....I attributed it to super damaged roots. Not the merit, definitely...I never used Merit on my shitty crop.

I discovered cuttings and babies with RA's were unaffected by Merit. Older plants with bigger root systems, that had been ravaged by the RA's and were sloooooowww to recover.

I didn't use the Merit in flower. I dealt with them after I chopped on an upcoming run of teens and a room full of moms.

I put smart pots in flood tables and filled them with Merit and let the SIT for a long time....every square inch of soil must be saturated...

Merit works on animals with central nervous systems....period. I dont think there is an RA without a nervous system. I dont know this to be true though. I am no bug man!!

Pesticide pathways and pathway resistence is where this conversation needs to go, IMHO. We as potheads, aren't dealing with a new bug. These things have been researched by Ag companies and universities.

Its hard as a home gardener to be able to correctly ID all these types of bugs. If we ever get infected...we hope its ONCE....the IPM gets tightened up, and no more problems. Who wants to be an expert at THIS shit?!?...lol....NOBODY!!!

Chobble · May 7, 2012

Mississip Hip said:
Did the Merit ruin the weed or was it the damage from the RA's?

I had the same thing......larf city....lol.....I attributed it to super damaged roots. Not the merit, definitely...I never used Merit on my shitty crop.

I discovered cuttings and babies with RA's were unaffected by Merit. Older plants with bigger root systems, that had been ravaged by the RA's and were sloooooowww to recover.

I didn't use the Merit in flower. I dealt with them after I chopped on an upcoming run of teens and a room full of moms.

I put smart pots in flood tables and filled them with Merit and let the SIT for a long time....every square inch of soil must be saturated...

Merit works on animals with central nervous systems....period. I dont think there is an RA without a nervous system. I dont know this to be true though. I am no bug man!!

Pesticide pathways and pathway resistence is where this conversation needs to go, IMHO. We as potheads, aren't dealing with a new bug. These things have been researched by Ag companies and universities.

Its hard as a home gardener to be able to correctly ID all these types of bugs. If we ever get infected...we hope its ONCE....the IPM gets tightened up, and no more problems. Who wants to be an expert at THIS shit?!?...lol....NOBODY!!!

I have not lost a plant to the RA's I attribute that to my care of the Bioheard in my soil. Now just because a flier pops up doesnt mean my infestation hasnt been brought down. Holy shit has it been knocked down.

I dont expect anything to completely knock it out with two weeks. Im only on Week one and a half with Caps and week three with Azamax.

Chobble

Mississip Hip · May 8, 2012

@chobble.. I was talking to Seamaiden.....my bad....I shoulda used the quote feature.

Merit is once and done...BTW.

3 weeks of Azamax and you still got fliers?.......I hate to tell you this, but it aint workin.

Mississip Hip · May 8, 2012

Is there a easy to use guide for IDing different types of pliers and larvae?

I used google and hit the "images" button...not the most scientific method.

I know Sea has the hotrod version...(scholar?)

That has been my prollum in the past is FUR SHURE id of these boogers.

Is there a concise, well laid out guide for IDing these pests? Something like silohette's (sp) , real pics, all life stage pics in color and magnified from angles to make it USER friendly for non-acedemic types...

The round tail vs the pointy tail is how I id fungus vs RA....I dont even know if thats the best way to tell. I went with it and got lucky.

That would be a cool guide to get started and stickied.

Maybe its around and I have missed it??? I get high and miss alot sometimes...lol...

peace guys. Sorry if I sounded confrontational earlier. I can get a little full of myself.

Seamaiden · May 9, 2012

Mississip Hip said:
Did the Merit ruin the weed or was it the damage from the RA's?

I had the same thing......larf city....lol.....I attributed it to super damaged roots. Not the merit, definitely...I never used Merit on my shitty crop.

I do not attribute problems to the M75 other than lasting too long in plant tissues, and I cannot find that it's appropriate to use even on tobacco, let alone field tobacco (closest corollary I can think of).

Mississip Hip said:
I discovered cuttings and babies with RA's were unaffected by Merit. Older plants with bigger root systems, that had been ravaged by the RA's and were sloooooowww to recover.

Mine didn't recover, ever. Nor did any subsequent cuts. I am sure that my husbandry skills have a ways to go, but I feel that the original outdoor plants should have been in good enough conditions to withstand the original infestation--they were not able to withstand it. I feel, therefore, that once the RAs got a sufficient foothold they were able to decimate the plant's ability to fight further infection/infestation. Like a plant AIDS, if you will.

Mississip Hip said:
I didn't use the Merit in flower. I dealt with them after I chopped on an upcoming run of teens and a room full of moms.

I put smart pots in flood tables and filled them with Merit and let the SIT for a long time....every square inch of soil must be saturated...

This was my method with the Triazicide. However, I'd rather use something that doesn't present the potential for problems up and downstream, as well as creating resistance, that products such as Merit 75 present for me.

Mississip Hip said:
Merit works on animals with central nervous systems....period. I dont think there is an RA without a nervous system. I dont know this to be true though. I am no bug man!!

This may be why nicotinoid 'cides' are proving so problematic. They have no place in my garden.

Mississip Hip said:
Pesticide pathways and pathway resistence is where this conversation needs to go, IMHO. We as potheads, aren't dealing with a new bug. These things have been researched by Ag companies and universities.

Its hard as a home gardener to be able to correctly ID all these types of bugs. If we ever get infected...we hope its ONCE....the IPM gets tightened up, and no more problems. Who wants to be an expert at THIS shit?!?...lol....NOBODY!!!

They have indeed, and I think we need to use our skulls to find the proper corollaries, i.e. what would be smoked, not necessarily just 'ingested', if you will. In other words, look to how good tobacco is grown (is there anything else that's labeled and smoked, not eaten or made into juice, other products?).

However! If the home gardener takes a more holistic approach, in my opinion, if a home gardener pays better attention to the balance of the whole suite of organisms to which we and our plants are exposed, and if that gardener foments and promulgates that healthy culture (Chobble's mention of Cap's bennies, that's where he's leading), then the whole problem may be avoided.

I say this because at the very same time my perlite hempy tubs were becoming Dens of Winged Destruction (outside, high balcony), my soil food web plants became my saving grace. I had to question,
Why was that? My immediate conclusion was the medium itself, and it being established and more conducive to a more complete soil food web than the disconnected perlite hempy tubs, which were being fed a combination of chemical salt and organic nutrients at low concentrations.[/quote]

Mississip Hip · May 9, 2012

Seamaiden said:
I do not attribute problems to the M75 other than lasting too long in plant tissues, and I cannot find that it's appropriate to use even on tobacco, let alone field tobacco (closest corollary I can think of).

60 days. No problem if you plan for it.

Mine didn't recover, ever. Nor did any subsequent cuts. I am sure that my husbandry skills have a ways to go, but I feel that the original outdoor plants should have been in good enough conditions to withstand the original infestation--they were not able to withstand it. I feel, therefore, that once the RAs got a sufficient foothold they were able to decimate the plant's ability to fight further infection/infestation. Like a plant AIDS, if you will.

Then you had other problems in addition to the RA's. I think I remember you saying you thought it was a virus.

This was my method with the Triazicide. However, I'd rather use something that doesn't present the potential for problems up and downstream, as well as creating resistance, that products such as Merit 75 present for me.

Potential for a problem.... and actually being irresponsible enough to damage the environment....are TWO TOTALLY different things

This may be why nicotinoid 'cides' are proving so problematic. They have no place in my garden.

I dont see that as a problem. I dont run around spraying all of outdoors. This is for the once or twice in a lifetime that I got an RA infestation...not a part of a weekly/monthly IPM. Do you use other insecticides that kill randomly? (organicide comes to mind)

They have indeed, and I think we need to use our skulls to find the proper corollaries, i.e. what would be smoked, not necessarily just 'ingested', if you will. In other words, look to how good tobacco is grown (is there anything else that's labeled and smoked, not eaten or made into juice, other products?).

Agreed. But I want PROOF that Merit75 is bad after 60 days in the plant....I still haven't seen any.

However! If the home gardener takes a more holistic approach, in my opinion, if a home gardener pays better attention to the balance of the whole suite of organisms to which we and our plants are exposed, and if that gardener foments and promulgates that healthy culture (Chobble's mention of Cap's bennies, that's where he's leading), then the whole problem may be avoided.

Yeah...but we are talking about ridding an infestation....not prevention. I agree Caps bennies and other approaches work great for PREVENTION.

I say this because at the very same time my perlite hempy tubs were becoming Dens of Winged Destruction (outside, high balcony), my soil food web plants became my saving grace. I had to question,
Why was that? My immediate conclusion was the medium itself, and it being established and more conducive to a more complete soil food web than the disconnected perlite hempy tubs, which were being fed a combination of chemical salt and organic nutrients at low concentrations.

[/quote]

Nah....I dont agree. I got them in subs super soil. As organic as it gets. They laughed about it. But maybe so.....

Seamaiden · May 10, 2012

No, I don't use general pesticides at this point in time. Nor do I allow any herbicides to be used. I have a goal to attain organic certification for my market garden some day.

Chobble · May 10, 2012

Nah....I dont agree. I got them in subs super soil. As organic as it gets. They laughed about it. But maybe so.....[/quote]

Good news, Your crop has never been organic because you use merit :P Kind of seems like a waste of time putting em in super soil if you'll spray merit on there. This debate has literally happened three times in this thread now.

Seamaiden · May 10, 2012

Subcool's super soil is just a mix of organic feeds, that doesn't guarantee that it's got the full compliment of microbes and macrobes as a well-managed plot of soil food web soil.

Mississip Hip · May 10, 2012

Chobble said:
Nah....I dont agree. I got them in subs super soil. As organic as it gets. They laughed about it. But maybe so.....

Good news, Your crop has never been organic because you use merit :p Kind of seems like a waste of time putting em in super soil if you'll spray merit on there. This debate has literally happened three times in this thread now.[/quote]

Never said it was organic........:eek::confused::p

You dont spray Merit.....learn what you are talking about buddy....lol....

It may seem a waste of time to you....but you dont know how Merit works, or, either how your microbiology works.

Heres a clue...bacteria dont have nervous systems. It does ZERO harm to them.

Educate yourself man. Dont believe the hype.

Mississip Hip · May 10, 2012

Seamaiden said:
Subcool's super soil is just a mix of organic feeds, that doesn't guarantee that it's got the full compliment of microbes and macrobes as a well-managed plot of soil food web soil.

Nah, when done properly,,,,its a helluva lot more than "just" a mix of organic feeds.......

c'mon Sea......Have you never used the recipe or read about it?

I know you undersatnd what 'cooking' it does.......

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