Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

chronnoisseur · Sep 3, 2011

Hi there, I think I might be able to help.
Your roots look like you may have serious microbial issues. pythium would probably be correct. try this.. Switch to a non chem A&B (chems kill beneficial bacterias) and use the top recommended dose microhizine (Orca) in your case, a dose of humic acid to help the beneficials break down the nutes. You might want to think about nematodes to because they will eat up the larvae of your pythium although your system might pulverize them. Also maybe research Bacillus thuringiensis. that might hellp as well. Try to keep your ppm below 900 for about 4 days to. I hope this helps and best of luck.

PTB · Sep 4, 2011

does anyone know about Ridomil Gold SL??

Chronic Monster · Oct 27, 2011

What's new DS? ? Find a product you like for root problems yet? U still using h202?

Killadelph13 · Oct 29, 2011

First off I started all 16 of my girls for the UC in 4'' cubes in a 2x4 tray under one 2x4 6 bulb t5 until they had substantial root bases and were stacked well, the entire time i never fed above 350 - 400 ppms using only RE, CalMag from botanicare, and DutchM A&B. keeping the tray clean and keeping the exposed roots damp was the biggest factor in starting with a fully matted (with roots) 4 inch cubes. they were transplanted and immediately went to zone instead of RE, they were into the water in two days, used zone at 1ml per gal the entire length of cycle, until flush , I had huge root bases and the girls thrived. Advanced big bud is the only prob i found, that stuff can get funky.

Res got a lil funky from big bud, but water temps were under 68 contantly and kept things pearly white. :banana1sv6:

click80 · Nov 12, 2011

desertsquirrel said:
So, now the big question still remains:

What is our target application rate for these products?

I hate doing the math so I will just say that I recently just put in 40 Deathstar clones into 3x6 flood table... I screwed up royal and put my clones in the big ass 4" RW cubes so from the start i have worried about too much water and developing root problems. The plants started showing def symptoms about day 8. I applied 29% H2O2 at 12 ml/gallon. I hadn't used that in awhile and read the directions too quick which were 3ml per 4 liters...in my peabrain I saw 3 ml/l....

I have since taken the the plants out of the 6" pots w/h'ton and just filling the bottom of a table with 'ton and putting the cubes on top...when pulling the plants out of pots i could not believe how great the roots were doing...very healthy and were actually kind of root bound as they were so big..what i mean is the roots were so numerous and healthy they had bulged the sides of the pot out slightly and had wedged the plant into the pot...had to pull hard to get them out.....I am thinking that Hormex shit i used during 1 week of veg had a little something to do with it..but I do know that 12ml/gallon of Hydrogen Peroxide was not too much in this case and definitely did not hurt the roots, on the contrary the roots are the best I have ever had...by far..

but my freaking leaves still look like shit, they seem better this morning and I am hoping it is heat stress...but thats for another thread i guess.

I have a question...I have some Zone and would like to know how safe it is? I bought it but when I saw that it looked like antifreeze I just put in away for another day...I noticed you mentioned it and if you use it I would feel a lot better about putting in my res.

TheHydroChronic · Dec 31, 2011

you still having problems with rot?

click80 · Dec 31, 2011

nope...this run of dstar is going to hit 1 gm/watt...its most def my best and hhealthiest run ever. took these today....its day 45...starting flush today...crystals are 50/50....i did end up using zone at 1 ml/gal....when i hit 'em with 1/4 tsp/gal mollasses they blew up.....first time i ever used mol at smaller dose..worked much better than 1 tsp/gal.

Chronic Monster · Dec 31, 2011

TheHydroChronic said:
you still having problems with rot?

+1
is. is wondering the same, still using h2o2 broseph :wondering

click80 · Dec 31, 2011

oops didn't nottiice this thread was for ucc....sorrry

SKUNK420 · Jan 2, 2012

When I go back to DWC I 'm thinking of using a product called RootShield as an inoculate. A little pricey but if it can prevent and/or stop root rot then it may be worth it. They even do tissue sampling but of course we grow the evil plant.
http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/rootshield.pdf
http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/rootshield-wp.php

some1 · Jan 2, 2012

Nice!

Kcar · Jan 2, 2012

I think your math is still wrong as

H202 @ 5ml/gal:

5ml 30% H2O2 / 1000 ml H2O = 5 ppm H2O2 X .3 (or 30%) = 1.5 ppm / 3.785 (gal) = .39 ppm X 1000 = 390ppm.

5ml 30% H2O2 / 1000 ml H2O = 5 ppt H2O2 X .3 (or 30%) = 1.5 ppt / 3.785 (gal) = .39 ppt X 1000 = 390ppm.

But I think it's right in the end.

MT Farmer · Jan 28, 2012

Aquashield and UCROOTS

after 2 cases of pyth, I finally got rid of it!!! GOING STRONG NOW!!! I used UCROOTS to get rid of it and the aquashield and light dyna at about 275 ppm for 2 weeks to grow my roots back and we are now off and running! I will never go without aquashield in my UC again! UCROOTS is waaaay better than ZONE and totally killed it but then I just felt I needed to colonize my roots and grow them back so Aquashield did the trick. I have been on the pythoff, fungicide, zone, H2O2 merry-go-round but will never go that route again.

click80 · Jan 28, 2012

MT Farmer said:
after 2 cases of pyth, I finally got rid of it!!! GOING STRONG NOW!!! I used UCROOTS to get rid of it and the aquashield and light dyna at about 275 ppm for 2 weeks to grow my roots back and we are now off and running! I will never go without aquashield in my UC again! UCROOTS is waaaay better than ZONE and totally killed it but then I just felt I needed to colonize my roots and grow them back so Aquashield did the trick. I have been on the pythoff, fungicide, zone, H2O2 merry-go-round but will never go that route again.

I keep up with this thread because you UC guys seem to have to be more than vigilant about pythium and good root health in general....

if you don't mind me asking, what exactly is Aquashield's claim to fame? I looked at some today and it only stated decomposted poultry litter (or something like that) I know that they only have to declare certain things on the label. Anyway, I am wondering if any of the products you guys use in UC might help me in flood tables. I do pretty good but I am always looking for better roots.

Also how does the UCRoots work? I am assuming the goal here is either running sterile, or running a good bennie population...in either case it is to keep the bad stuff off your roots. I ran Zone last time and my roots were pretty good.

So any suggestions would be cool. I would love to run bennies in my flood tables but have never had much luck with them...as far as i could see anyway. I was thinking about using Great White this time.

Juzam · Jan 29, 2012

DS,

You've eluded to either getting away from or, having issues with RDWC ... Where have you ended up?

I think everyone who has done this on more than a small scale has had issues with root rot and preventatives, what have you found to work the best?

As a DWC guy I would switch to Coco for consistency but to stay within the law for plant count legality DWC is really the ticket, it if can be controlled.

hollywood7 · Jan 29, 2012

UC ROOTS rocks going to try in my cloneing machine next no more babysitting the temp.

MT Farmer · Jan 29, 2012

Aquashield and UCROOTS

Funny, it would seem that aquashield is just poultry litter but it is actually inoculated with a bacteria that eats pythium. the bacteria colonizes the roots and then keeps pyth from eating them.

I put the UCRoots in an ebb and flo that had pyth. I threw the rotting clones out but didn't clean the system thoroughly and just added UCroots to a semi-clean table and it was amazing! the table stayed clean. when I put those clones in my Uc they took a turn again. other growers have said it was just a kind of root chnge that I was seeing in the UC and that it happens when you move young clones from the ebb and flo veg to my big 12 place UC. It totally freaked me out but I stayed steady and just put about 6-10ml per gallonplus dyna bloom to about 275 and tried to re-grow the roots and it worked. took 2 weeks but my plants are ginormous now! so happy!

My last case of pyth I lost my whole 12 place crop. I screwed around with h2o2, pythoff, bleach, fungicide....probably dumped my system everyday or every other day for 3 weeks and then finally just gave up. SUCKED. I think the problem that time was I would kill the pyth with those products but then would add back nutes and it was burning the young, rotting compromised roots.

I truly believe from my experience that you have to kill the pyth with a chloramine type product but then you have to have something in there to colonize and protect plus something that will feed them just enough without burning the growing roots. For me, aquashiled was it.

I have been cloning with pargro and root riots and folowing Ds' properly way to root forum. Ran all kinds of tests with rockwool, pargro, root riots, h2o2. Now I use 1.5 pargro dyna and aquashield and my roots are insane. Going to get my ezcloner going again and try to go back to cloner to UC, it has worked the best thus far. h202 and coco didntdo well for me. that is what rotted the first time. rockwool and pargro are great. Just do not like the ebb and flo for veg because of the weird root change. My best run was cloner to Uc with aquashield in my cloner, no weird root change and hardening off just t5 ezcloner then right in. This time I am going to do AQ and Dyna in the cloner.Would love an oxygen product that worked with AQ but the results are stillamazing. air stones will have to do. wish h202 would have worked better. ireally wanted to use it but it didnt work for me.

UCROOTS ROCKS! waaaaaaay better than zone! will always use for pyth!
good luck! heres the ladies 10 or so days into bloom!! YESSSS!

bongorilla · Feb 12, 2012

Dosing w/ Sodium Hypochlorite to kill Zoospores

Originally Posted by desertsquirrel
Well it appears that the Sure-to-grow portion of our side-by-side is starting to fail us. One maybe 2 trees are/have fallen to a root rot (mostly stem rot) issue stemming from their tendency to hold water against the massive trunks.

This event has caused me to re-evaluate H2O2 and bleach application rates, and left me scratching my head.

5ml 30% H2O2 / 1000 ml H2O = 5 ppm H2O2 X .3 (or 30%) = 1.5 ppm / 3.785 (gal) = .39 ppm. Yes thats .39 ppm per gallon.

So the recommendations i have seen are between 30 and 50 ppm which means it would take 75 or 125 ml of H2O2 respectively. Far too much to be cost effective.

Similarly with sodium hypochlorite (bleach) At 6%:

.39 / 5 = 0.078 (with an AG rec of .5-1%) = 7-12 ml/gal

Though this solution is much more economical, application rates this high have been problematic in the UC giving way to toxicity issues. And likewise lower applications do not seem to deal with the problem

Next is zinc/copper based hydro products; lets look at zone:

.01 % copper @ 1ml per gal =1 / 3.785 X .01 = 0.002642 actual ppm copper. haha

We ordered a product that Hermition turned us onto w/8% copper that might help more.

This being said we are looking into an ozone unit, which from what i understand generates H2O2. If anyone has any info on either ozone gennys or application rates for these root products please chime in.

Excellent post and very good question. How much bleach do you add to the res?
After researching this for a minute, I read a lot of this same question and now after reading this study, I came to this conclusion..

asking how much bleach to add to the res and trying to figure out the dose mathematically is like asking how much pH down is needed to get the pH to xx.

the answer is it depends, it's conditional, and environmental. The bleach is an oxidant that looses it's fizzle along the way as it oxidizes. So it is something that must be maintained as like pH is.

The way they do this in this study conducted by Co State, is through meter measuring ORP (oxidation reduction potential) that is available in the water which like pH changes according to condition and circumstance. The level that needs to be maintained to effectively maintain a safe res is;

>> ORP 790mV

100% of the P. aphanidermatum zoospores were killed after 0.5 min exposure to 0.5 mg/liter chlorine, where ORP ranged from 748 to 790 mV and pH 6.3. Lowering the initial water pH improved disinfestation of P. dissotocum zoospores at the highest chlorine concentration tested and a mean ORP of 790 mV.

<<

so in order to successfully effectively use bleach I think it needs to be used in conjunction with an ORP meter as like pH and needs to be monitored and adjusted in accordance with the meter reading.

click80 · Feb 12, 2012

MT Farmer said:
Funny, it would seem that aquashield is just poultry litter but it is actually inoculated with a bacteria that eats pythium. the bacteria colonizes the roots and then keeps pyth from eating them.

I put the UCRoots in an ebb and flo that had pyth. I threw the rotting clones out but didn't clean the system thoroughly and just added UCroots to a semi-clean table and it was amazing! the table stayed clean. when I put those clones in my Uc they took a turn again. other growers have said it was just a kind of root chnge that I was seeing in the UC and that it happens when you move young clones from the ebb and flo veg to my big 12 place UC. It totally freaked me out but I stayed steady and just put about 6-10ml per gallonplus dyna bloom to about 275 and tried to re-grow the roots and it worked. took 2 weeks but my plants are ginormous now! so happy!

My last case of pyth I lost my whole 12 place crop. I screwed around with h2o2, pythoff, bleach, fungicide....probably dumped my system everyday or every other day for 3 weeks and then finally just gave up. SUCKED. I think the problem that time was I would kill the pyth with those products but then would add back nutes and it was burning the young, rotting compromised roots.

I truly believe from my experience that you have to kill the pyth with a chloramine type product but then you have to have something in there to colonize and protect plus something that will feed them just enough without burning the growing roots. For me, aquashiled was it.

I have been cloning with pargro and root riots and folowing Ds' properly way to root forum. Ran all kinds of tests with rockwool, pargro, root riots, h2o2. Now I use 1.5 pargro dyna and aquashield and my roots are insane. Going to get my ezcloner going again and try to go back to cloner to UC, it has worked the best thus far. h202 and coco didntdo well for me. that is what rotted the first time. rockwool and pargro are great. Just do not like the ebb and flo for veg because of the weird root change. My best run was cloner to Uc with aquashield in my cloner, no weird root change and hardening off just t5 ezcloner then right in. This time I am going to do AQ and Dyna in the cloner.Would love an oxygen product that worked with AQ but the results are stillamazing. air stones will have to do. wish h202 would have worked better. ireally wanted to use it but it didnt work for me.

UCROOTS ROCKS! waaaaaaay better than zone! will always use for pyth!
good luck! heres the ladies 10 or so days into bloom!! YESSSS!

I hope you guys don't mind me posting here cause it's about ebb and flow. I am doing it cause you UC guys seem to have the most experience with all things to do with roots...

I followed DS's cloning method for the most part and had my best clones ever...my problem is that after the root in Rapid R'trs I then put them into 3" RW cubes, watered them with a solution of RO water, Hormex, Rapid Start, GreatWhite, Superthrive, and a 450 ppm nute solution...ph'd to 5.6...they popped out the bottom with nice fat hairy white roots in only two to three days....and I was happy....then they stopped. Plants were still healthy, I had the cubes sitting on top of propagation tray inserts...I am guessing they air pruned ? Anyway I took them and put them into plastic trays with hydroton in the bottom. The were still growing and they look great, just not the roots, well not much. The last batch of clones I had, I put them in Perlite and the roots totally covered the bottom of the cube, what i mean is the whole bottom of the RW cube was all roots, you could not see any RWool hardly, then when i put them in the perlite the kept growing and by the time i put them in the flood tray the roots were about 2 inches long.

Not this time though. I know I am using a lot of additives, but I did the same last time when they did so good growing into perlite. This time they just sort of languished, the roots didn't die or turn brown they just sort of stopped. Anyway I went ahead and got them in the flood tray and they are still not doing that good. I was thinking maybe I should do what I saw on one of these UC threads. They said that when they were vegging before going into the UC they would not water until the plants hit what he called the Temporary Wilt Point...matter of fact I think it was DS.

Anyway, I am stuck with flood trays for now and i think the secret to flood trays is getting the absolutely best freaking roots going as possible. So if anyone doesn't mind, I would love to know what you guys would do. Am I using too many additives? Maybe just stick with the Technaflora Recipe for Success. I just put them into flower so that should amp them up...fuck i am rambling....I would just like to get killer roots for once.

desertsquirrel · Feb 12, 2012

how are you watering?

Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

chronnoisseur

PTB

Guest

Chronic Monster

Killadelph13

click80

TheHydroChronic

click80

Chronic Monster

click80

SKUNK420

some1

Kcar

MT Farmer

click80

Juzam

hollywood7

MT Farmer

Attachments

bongorilla

click80

desertsquirrel

Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

chronnoisseur

PTB

Guest

Chronic Monster

Killadelph13

click80

TheHydroChronic

click80

Chronic Monster

click80

SKUNK420

some1

Kcar

MT Farmer

click80

Juzam

hollywood7

MT Farmer

Attachments

bongorilla

click80

desertsquirrel

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