K
kuz
- 678
- 63
I want to flip soon but not sure if its worth it without a better root ball. What is the small hole in the epicenter for? Im wondering if the water level was too low before the roots hit the water.
N
NWElite89
- 258
- 43
What is the size of the plant compared to your room size (ceiling/light height? I usually have the water bubbling up to the bottoms of the netpot for about a week or until a bunch of little roots protrude from the sides, maybe about 2 inches. Then I drop the water level to 1 inch below the net pot, roots will find the water. I wouldnt worry about root size to much, just focus on making sure your 3 levels are correct (PH,EC-PPMS/TEMP and you are giving them the right amounts. Once those readings are right where they should be, your rootball will definitely show, especially in flower mode.
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
ph was a little high, bought a new meter and i'm having to add some ph down. Bought a new hanna ec meter also its reading around 1700. I think its a .7 conversion though because I expected the number to be closer to 1200 with the nutes i added. Water temp 68-70.
Never ran uc before but done a lot of different dwc. I expected a lot more root mass, they have been in the water for over two weeks. Its been a while but it seems like I would get a lot more root mass in two weeks then flip then get some root growth for another two weeks or so then the root mass slows way down.
I think i need to plug the hole in the epicenter so I can run the water level higher, early on. But I thought maybe the hole was there to keep you from getting the water level too high.
Never ran uc before but done a lot of different dwc. I expected a lot more root mass, they have been in the water for over two weeks. Its been a while but it seems like I would get a lot more root mass in two weeks then flip then get some root growth for another two weeks or so then the root mass slows way down.
I think i need to plug the hole in the epicenter so I can run the water level higher, early on. But I thought maybe the hole was there to keep you from getting the water level too high.
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
The cuts came off pretty big plants that had been in a greenhouse for about a month. Maybe thats just causing things to take a little longer. Took some time for the roots to get into the water then i thought it would take off.
N
NWElite89
- 258
- 43
The UC is very efficient when it comes to nutrient/water ratio. I am not familiar with the .7 conversion or the brand of nutes, but from what my past grows have told me that LESS is actually MORE. Also I run double air discs in each of my modules. Water temperature makes a difference as well and try and stay as close to 68 has you can, even some other members on here might run a littler cooler at (66F) From what I can tell from growing with the UC is that you need a good pre-veg with lots of roots shooting out the netpot before entering your VEG or Flower, rather than just a couple little strands hanging out the side. That is when explosive growth happens that I have seen on some threads. There is also some threads that teach how to root properly in the UC that has very good info
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
Should have the chiller running soon get the temps down. There are no roots coming out of the bottom of the pot, mostly the sides. Im thinking I have bigger issues, some bug or fungus.
think I will dump the pebbles and have a close look at one of the pots
think I will dump the pebbles and have a close look at one of the pots
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
That ppm confusion you're having will go away once you start thinking in EC. Measuring in ppm is for CO², not for water.
I've never had an Undercurrent, but if you think that little hole is preventing you from running your water level where you want it, plug the hole. Just beware of swamping your netpot, as it leads to stemrot and other problems.
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
cant wait to get them down to 65'. In the past i did okay around 70, adding 8 ppm bleach every 5 days, and peroxide rotated in once in a while along with sm90. Dont get the lack of root mass. Ran temps as high as 74' which gave me lots of problems but still got big dense root balls.
Id think ec but the meter tells me ppm, now I dont know where the packaging went but it seems .7 most likely, if its .5 I'm running the nutes a lot stronger than intended.
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
Most meters have a way to change scales, just like most thermometers read both F and C.
Leaner nutes are better for high temps, but getting your water temp down remains a priority. In the past you've run sterilants and that only went so far for me. The bugs always won eventually.
Leaner nutes are better for high temps, but getting your water temp down remains a priority. In the past you've run sterilants and that only went so far for me. The bugs always won eventually.
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
I agree, my car was supposed to be running a couple weeks ago. I have some manifolds and other fittings I need to pick up in Denver to set up the chiller.
Found a bug also. How many kinds of root aphids are there? This looked a lot like a root but there were antenna on its head. None of the little black aphids.
Papa
Supporter
- 2,474
- 163
Kuz, i assume you're talking about the 3/8" hole in the side of the epicenter. this is the hole that you install the float valve in (that is connected to your top-off reservoir). use the instructions that came with your system, they are very clear about details like this. if you've lost your instructions, they can be downloaded from current culture's website.
when everything else is done properly, you should flip based upon the height of your plant, not the size of your rootball. correct plant height for flipping is strain dependent, ceiling height dependent, and lighting design dependent.
i have no idea what you're doing with your nutes that high. at this stage in the UC you should be at about .5 EC, or 350 ppm on the .7 scale, or 260 ppm on the .5 scale. some growers are finding that numbers even lower than this work better for them.
the 1700 ppm is way WAY out of line. i wonder what your plants look like, your photo doesn't show. i can't imagine the 1700 hasn't caused nute lockout.
your roots don't look as white as you should want them. the combination of nutes too high and high H2O temps could be brewing baddies that will be causing you problems as your grow continues. be really careful with the bleach. it's extremely easy to burn your roots and cause more trouble for you.
the best thing you can do in the UC is to use current culture nutes and their UC roots product.
you need to know whether you're at .5 or .7 conversion to calibrate your meter properly, which you should be doing on a weekly basis. i don't know why this is an issue if you've run lots of dwc before.
if you mentioned the brand of nutes you're using, i missed it.
dwc isn't like throwing seeds in dirt outdoors and standing back to watch. you've got to be much more on top of things. put every instruction sheet and booklet into a file and keep them, every single one. you're going to use them and refer back to them in the future. collect accurate data in your notes, and lots of it. you will refer back to it on future grows. take pics and save them along with your data. it'll all help you to improve from run to run.
when everything else is done properly, you should flip based upon the height of your plant, not the size of your rootball. correct plant height for flipping is strain dependent, ceiling height dependent, and lighting design dependent.
i have no idea what you're doing with your nutes that high. at this stage in the UC you should be at about .5 EC, or 350 ppm on the .7 scale, or 260 ppm on the .5 scale. some growers are finding that numbers even lower than this work better for them.
the 1700 ppm is way WAY out of line. i wonder what your plants look like, your photo doesn't show. i can't imagine the 1700 hasn't caused nute lockout.
your roots don't look as white as you should want them. the combination of nutes too high and high H2O temps could be brewing baddies that will be causing you problems as your grow continues. be really careful with the bleach. it's extremely easy to burn your roots and cause more trouble for you.
the best thing you can do in the UC is to use current culture nutes and their UC roots product.
you need to know whether you're at .5 or .7 conversion to calibrate your meter properly, which you should be doing on a weekly basis. i don't know why this is an issue if you've run lots of dwc before.
if you mentioned the brand of nutes you're using, i missed it.
dwc isn't like throwing seeds in dirt outdoors and standing back to watch. you've got to be much more on top of things. put every instruction sheet and booklet into a file and keep them, every single one. you're going to use them and refer back to them in the future. collect accurate data in your notes, and lots of it. you will refer back to it on future grows. take pics and save them along with your data. it'll all help you to improve from run to run.
UCMENOW
- 1,095
- 83
What Papa said!
And read the directions to your UC, it will help with things like the "small hole in the epicenter" thing.
And read the directions to your UC, it will help with things like the "small hole in the epicenter" thing.
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
thanks Papa, should have realized what that hole was for. Plants look terrible. I'm also running four different strains, rather not but im starting from scratch with genetics and need to see what I'm working with. first two weeks i was using beneficials, when i saw what might be issues I went sterile. Bleach at 4 ppm, dont think that stresses the plants any. I'll go up to 8 ppm or higher if i need to. Peroxide at 200 ppm. For the nutes, I mix them myself. I dont know how you guys grow at such low ppm.
n 140, p 40, k 240, mg 75, ca 130.
Thats the mix right now, I do the math by hand maybe I better run it through a calculator. Fairly mild, the p and k will get kicked up during flower. The ppm's are monitored daily, the number doesnt matter much just what its doing. From experience I thought the meter would read a lot lower, around 1000, I dont think i ever went as low as 350 ppm. I grew this way for a few years without a chiller, constant battle with root problems, but i never had this problem with a lack of roots. Thats what Im trying to figure out now, why arent the roots growing.
n 140, p 40, k 240, mg 75, ca 130.
Thats the mix right now, I do the math by hand maybe I better run it through a calculator. Fairly mild, the p and k will get kicked up during flower. The ppm's are monitored daily, the number doesnt matter much just what its doing. From experience I thought the meter would read a lot lower, around 1000, I dont think i ever went as low as 350 ppm. I grew this way for a few years without a chiller, constant battle with root problems, but i never had this problem with a lack of roots. Thats what Im trying to figure out now, why arent the roots growing.
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
I did a res change yesterday and realized i had forgot to add the micros last res change. So thats why I think the plants are looking so bad. and maybe why the roots didnt take off. Roots are starting to pop now.
I did dump the pebbles out of one of the net pots to search the roots for bugs and I found some weird looking aphid, but just the one bug. They are tiny and hard to see with 30x scope. There are some tiny yellow bugs resembling aphids running around on the pod covers also, never seen anything like them, might be cabbage root aphids from what I can find on the internet.
They are bouncing back, hope to flip in about 10 days.
new york city, double diesel, banana kush, blue dream. banana stinks crazy already, blue dream looks like a real light feeder, not sure if she will make it.
I did dump the pebbles out of one of the net pots to search the roots for bugs and I found some weird looking aphid, but just the one bug. They are tiny and hard to see with 30x scope. There are some tiny yellow bugs resembling aphids running around on the pod covers also, never seen anything like them, might be cabbage root aphids from what I can find on the internet.
They are bouncing back, hope to flip in about 10 days.
new york city, double diesel, banana kush, blue dream. banana stinks crazy already, blue dream looks like a real light feeder, not sure if she will make it.
Papa
Supporter
- 2,474
- 163
kuz, i'm sorry they're not looking very happy. totally stressed.
here's what i'd recommend, and i know it's a tough pill to swallow, but it's a no b.s. honest answer. I'd pull the plants, take a few days to improve the environment (do what you must to assure H2O temps can consistently remain below 68° for example) and start fresh with fresh healthy clones and current culture nutes at their recommended levels. run and learn their system, with their advice, as they have intended it to be used. once you've done that successfully several times, then start modifying it to your taste. your experience with their recommendations will serve as a baseline for you . . . which you can compare your modifications to . . . for better or worse. understand that the guys at cc have more experience with their system and dwc than you, I, and fifty other growers combined. use that to your own benefit.
good luck.
here's what i'd recommend, and i know it's a tough pill to swallow, but it's a no b.s. honest answer. I'd pull the plants, take a few days to improve the environment (do what you must to assure H2O temps can consistently remain below 68° for example) and start fresh with fresh healthy clones and current culture nutes at their recommended levels. run and learn their system, with their advice, as they have intended it to be used. once you've done that successfully several times, then start modifying it to your taste. your experience with their recommendations will serve as a baseline for you . . . which you can compare your modifications to . . . for better or worse. understand that the guys at cc have more experience with their system and dwc than you, I, and fifty other growers combined. use that to your own benefit.
good luck.
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
I do get that, it is why I bought the uc instead of just putting one together. The plants might come around, I flushed 2 days ago and if they dont look a lot better in a week then I will start over. Hit them with azatrol about a week ago, still have an unidentified bug but the azatrol nearly took them out. They are off to a rough start for sure.
Nutes are:
n 224, p 40, k 240, mg 80, ca 215
Ran my mix through the calculator and ec should be 2.2
ph is 5.8. water temp 71'
28 ml of bleach, and i will add 14 ml more every day for three days then switch to h2o2. There is 50 gallons with the water level where its at. This thread just aint going anywhere but I will post some pics near the end if I do put them into flower.
UCMENOW
- 1,095
- 83
Kinda feeling like it's a waste of time to repeat this, but it needs to be repeated.
DROP YOU NUTRIENT STRENGTH TO ABOUT 350-400. Keep the same mineral ratios but dilute the mix.
Not understanding why you are not acknowledging this insight as it will help better hydrate your plants and that's when they'll begin growing properly. You're head is stuck on NPK and it's causing you to ignore insight from people (myself included) with 6+ years experience with this specific system.
Chlorine (salt), H2O2 (caustic), mineral salts too high...your lucky your plants are even alive brother. All this results in basically chemo on your roots and dehydrating/dissecating your plants.
Just reference what CC recommends for nute concentrations as a point of reference.
You can keep your DIY nute schedule, just dilute it down with pure water to achieve the EC recmmended by CC.
Open your mind to something different than what is failing you now.
DROP YOU NUTRIENT STRENGTH TO ABOUT 350-400. Keep the same mineral ratios but dilute the mix.
Not understanding why you are not acknowledging this insight as it will help better hydrate your plants and that's when they'll begin growing properly. You're head is stuck on NPK and it's causing you to ignore insight from people (myself included) with 6+ years experience with this specific system.
Chlorine (salt), H2O2 (caustic), mineral salts too high...your lucky your plants are even alive brother. All this results in basically chemo on your roots and dehydrating/dissecating your plants.
Just reference what CC recommends for nute concentrations as a point of reference.
You can keep your DIY nute schedule, just dilute it down with pure water to achieve the EC recmmended by CC.
Open your mind to something different than what is failing you now.
stickyfing3rs
- 943
- 143
ya with ec that high then plants should be like
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
Its failing for other reasons i believe. Its worked in the past, i didnt just make up the numbers. This is weird the thread has become all about nutrients. The profiles Im using are pretty typical in the hydro world, developed by professionals over the last 50 years. All the really impressive grows I have followed here used ran ec 2 and higher.
Anyway there are too many issues I just have to go with what I know right now. I will start over if things dont improve, but I expect them to look much better in a week or so.
when did cc start recommending 400 ppms, I never heard of that. I would only only use a third of what im using now. Maybe i will try it next time.
Anyway there are too many issues I just have to go with what I know right now. I will start over if things dont improve, but I expect them to look much better in a week or so.
when did cc start recommending 400 ppms, I never heard of that. I would only only use a third of what im using now. Maybe i will try it next time.
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