seeking some educated review on fertilizer ingredients.

[mannitu68]

Good day everybody,
im gonna upload some pictures from the nutrient-solution i use right now. Its a 2-component mineral fertilizer, claims to have knowledge and science and so. Made for soil. I dont know much about fertilizers, ive just realized 2 things about the product that confuse me, 1st is, they always recommend to use bottle A and B, both with same amount, from beginning to late flower. Now bottle A holds the N, so i expected this one to be reduced in flower. No, they recommend 4.5-5 ml of both, A an B in late flower. Thats a lot of N.

Second thing is, it does contain lots of calcium. Bottle A has twice as much Calcium as Nitrogen. Means, if you mix 5ml/l of Bottle A, you dont only get 400mg/l (or ppm) Nitrogen, but also 800ppm Calcium. Ive seen some recommendations that were only 100-150ppm. But then again, ive read its hard to overdose Calcium or Magnesium. Its not easy when you cant judge which information or recommendation has more value than others.

Is there somebody here that can with some authority make a guess if this company knows what its doing? Or am i missing something? It just seems to be different than others.

 

[Buzzzz]

Good day everybody,
im gonna upload some pictures from the nutrient-solution i use right now. Its a 2-component mineral fertilizer, claims to have knowledge and science and so. Made for soil. I dont know much about fertilizers, ive just realized 2 things about the product that confuse me, 1st is, they always recommend to use bottle A and B, both with same amount, from beginning to late flower. Now bottle A holds the N, so i expected this one to be reduced in flower. No, they recommend 4.5-5 ml of both, A an B in late flower. Thats a lot of N.

Second thing is, it does contain lots of calcium. Bottle A has twice as much Calcium as Nitrogen. Means, if you mix 5ml/l of Bottle A, you dont only get 400mg/l (or ppm) Nitrogen, but also 800ppm Calcium. Ive seen some recommendations that were only 100-150ppm. But then again, ive read its hard to overdose Calcium or Magnesium. Its not easy when you cant judge which information or recommendation has more value than others.

Is there somebody here that can with some authority make a guess if this company knows what its doing? Or am i missing something? It just seems to be different than others.

I'm sure the company knows what they are doing,it looks like 9-4-11 npk combined , plants are mostly selective and will take what they need as long as it's there. The fert co wants you to succeed and make it easy to keep you,they do mix it weak so you buy more and reduce chance of burn ,a seasoned grower will use 3 part or make their own from salts and adjust according to plant needs. I would mix it as they recommend and if you find in bloom they are too green just use b. Some soils have an analysis printed,alkaline soils usually have plenty of calcium

 

[mysticepipedon]

I agree with your assessment that it is unusual to add the same quantities of nutrients throughout the grow.

While it's unlikely that you would "overdose" calcium, it is not unlikely that you could lock out P, K and micronutrients with too much calcium.

Whenever trying a new (to me) nutrient, I use half the dosage and see what happens. For these, I'd go with the low end of the range they're showing and increase if they aren't showing any leaf tip burn. I would also drop back on bottle A for the second half of flowering.

So watch for nute burn on leaf tips, leaf hooking (indicating too much N) and lockout caused by the ingredients in bottle A (particularly P, K and Mg deficiencies). Once you mess up a soil grow, it's hard to fix the problem.

 

[mannitu68]

thank you. Yes, i cut Bottle A down, now in 6th week flower. using 2ml A and 4ml B. So 16% calcium is nothing unusual? Just for comparison, thats 4 times as high as my calmag, thats only got 4% calcium. guess i dont need that anymore. Now if someone uses the full 5ml A + has a calcium-rich tapwater he will be at 1000ppm calcium or slightly under. Is that not in the overdose range?

 

[Anthem]

thank you. Yes, i cut Bottle A down, now in 6th week flower. using 2ml A and 4ml B. So 16% calcium is nothing unusual? Just for comparison, thats 4 times as high as my calmag, thats only got 4% calcium. guess i dont need that anymore. Now if someone uses the full 5ml A + has a calcium-rich tapwater he will be at 1000ppm calcium or slightly under. Is that not in the overdose range?

The bulk of the fertilizer companies use Calcium Nitrate as part of the salts mixed in to create their nutrient line. Calcium Nitrate is 15-0-0 19 percent calcium. The lower level of calcium can also be attributed to using less Calcium Nitrate and adding in some Pure Cal that is lower in nitrogen and higher in Calcium. Calcium is a much overlooked plant requirement and the plant needs more than most realize.

 

[mannitu68]

theres CaO printed on the package, im not Dr. Snuggles but that probably means Calcium Oxide. Any trickery in that one? is that recovered by the plant as usual or only in little percentages?

 

[mysticepipedon]

theres CaO printed on the package, im not Dr. Snuggles but that probably means Calcium Oxide. Any trickery in that one? is that recovered by the plant as usual or only in little percentages?

I can't say whether they put CaO into these nutrients. If there's an ingredients list, that will tell you. But what this means is it isn't 16% calcium, but about 11.4% calcium. CaO has a molecular weight of 56. 40 units are from Ca, 16 are from O, so CaO is about 71% calcium. 16x0.71=11.4

In the US, the strength of agricultural lime is measured in calcium carbonate equivalents. Maybe it's measured in calcium oxide equivalents in Germany (or wherever this stuff is made).

 

[mannitu68]

while this might be a little confusing, it still says 16% CaO on the package. On the Calmag Supplement, its 4% CaO. So using 5ml of this stuff, as recommendet (it says 4-5ml in late stage), is the same as adding 20ml Calmag/l to your solution. However concentrated CaO is and how much can be recovered by the plant, this fertilizer is 4 times more concentradet than Calmag and your supposed to take up to 5ml/l. Maybe its just me who thinks this is weird.

 

[steamroller]

Found this so not the only company to use high CaO

FERTITECH KALICAL 10 - 0 - 38 + 16% CaO + 3%MgO FLOW

www.usagro.com.tr

I have no explanation .
What is the average source water like where you are ?
Is there a general lack of minerals in the water? That would be the only reason I can think of why they proportion as they do .

 

[Digger]

Good morning! High calcium is good, Ca is the main element they need, everything builds on it. When a variety is grown and there is a hole down the middle of the stem, a lot of people mistake that for being a "hemp" cultivar, but the truth is the plant needed more calcium during its life. The only time you want to cut back is later in flower after bud set. Not when they are first starting but starting to look like actual buds, so week 3-5, but its plant dependent. But to really get all your questions answered, you need to run one plant and follow the directions on the bottle to see how it responds in your environment. No one here can tell you exactly whats going to happen because there are too many other variables in play when it comes to feeding. Believe it or not, the plants need N farther into flower than people might think, N helps build the buds, its still plant material. People blame N for plants that are too green late in flower but that could also be caused by too much Mg.

 

[mannitu68]

yeah but i found 100-200ppm in Calcium recommendations. By using this stuff, i used 500-600ppm. Luckily, ive never used the full 5ml. Plus i know my tapwater has also 60-70mg. Plus ive added another 40-60ppm from calmag. I did infact get red/orange spots on my plants, 3 weeks after changing to this stuff. I thought it was a watering mistake, but i can rule this out now.

Unfortunatlely, nobody really seems to know how much calcium is too much. But seriously, just from a point of common sense, who would add 20ml/l Calmag to his water?

 

[mannitu68]

@steamroller:
lack of minerals in the water? Thats what calmag is for. 1-2ml recommendet per liter. Which is 40-80mg. This stuff contains 160mg with every single milliliter and they want you to take 2.5-5ml. Thats what confuses me and makes my ask myslf if the company really knows what theyre doing. I cant find any review or user experience on the product. Think its made in Poland, but filled in Germany. All other ingredients seem somewhat normal range when compared to others. I can imagine theres gonna be a significant calcium-level over time when the plant doesnt consume nearly that much.

 

[Peat_Phreak]

It is okay to use the same ratio of N during bloom as during veg.

Not sure where the cut N during bloom and increase P and K thing came from, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Excess P is one of the things that makes weed smoke harsh so why do people want to use excess P during bloom? P converts to phosphorus pentoxide when combusted. It's corrosive to metals and tissue with moderately toxicity.

I use the same NPK for veg and bloom for the entire grow on most grows. Nothing bad happens. Results are good in terms of yield and potency. However, I sometimes reduce N for the last 2-3 weeks of bloom to get a fade without flushing. This is done by swapping calcium nitrate for calcium sulfate.

So the OP's nutes look okay to me for basic nutes.

 

[rolandrog]

thank you. Yes, i cut Bottle A down, now in 6th week flower. using 2ml A and 4ml B. So 16% calcium is nothing unusual? Just for comparison, thats 4 times as high as my calmag, thats only got 4% calcium. guess i dont need that anymore. Now if someone uses the full 5ml A + has a calcium-rich tapwater he will be at 1000ppm calcium or slightly under. Is that not in the overdose range?

Mannitu68, I would switch to a fertilizer mixed for cannabis. I've used Fox Farm Grow Big on my first two grows. Now on my third grow, two plants at 6.8 pH has "purple" green leaves - indicative of phosphorus overdose lol. Grow Big has 6-4-4. In the old days, the pot growing gurus would recommend a balanced fertilizer, 4-4-4. If you are growing in organic container media, small amounts of N will be fed, so you may need a little less of N in your feed water. Phosphorus is good for vegging plants for up to 2-3 weeks. After this time its good to give feedwater with 3-1-2 ratios. Excess phosphorus will ultimately lower your media pH to too low acidity, less than 6.5. I am currently switching from Fox Farm Grow Big to Botanicare Pure Blend Grow, supposedly formulated especially for marijuana plants. Good Luck to you. To EVERYONE reading this forum, Please invest in a good Practical Botany/Grow Book - preferably one used as a College Text Book. I would recommend The Biology of Horticulture by Preece and Read. DO NOT BUY CURRENT EDITIONS because they are too expensive. Buy the edition not being used anymore because they are cheaper. Another good book, but not a college text although written by PhD in botany, is The Truth about Garden Remedies by Jeff Gillman.

IMHO, you will come across all kinds of nonsense in forums and supplier web sites. The first big rip-off is the recommendation of needing a grow tent, omg. And now after two grows with Fox Farm "Organic" soils - Happy Frog and Ocean Forest, I have decided to reuse the media. First, I tried to create my own organic soil by reusing the Fox Farm media and adding my own compost and earth worms. But after neutralizing my compost with peat moss to obtain pH=6.8, I was left with no room to use recycled Fox Farm Media. So, I just added perlite and mycorrhizae.

Now, after experiencing downward turning leaf tips on the plant lower branches, I'm just gonna use peat moss and perlite alone. The organic media TDS are just too darn high - suffocating my plant. Even after I took two plants from their 2 gallon fabric pots and flushed them in the sink (and even left them soaking. the plants are still thirsty. My next step is to bring these two plants outside and bury a water hose in the middle of the roots and pressure wash them ROFL. All this "organic" hype is just plain nonsense for container plants. Just expensive, needless crap that gets recommended by idiots to more idiots. Of course, these comments are just My Humble Opinion.

 

[Dugplug]

Has anyone ever tried flower fuel it's awesome stuff

 

[Dugplug]

Has anyone ever tried flower fuel it's awesome stuff

By the way I would go light with the A bottle because if your using good soil the nutes in there will take care of them for the first four weeks

 

[mannitu68]

Mannitu68, I would switch to a fertilizer mixed for cannabis

dude, the stuff is called "Probud" :)
It doesnt mean that the earnings go to Bud Spencer.

it claims cannabis fertilizer for soil with scieeeence background.
Had no problems as long as i used my 7-5-6 allround fertilzer for 2,49eu from the supermarket.
My leaves didnt really get better...by now many leaves are yellowing and falling. Maybe thats normal after 7 weeks flower. Buds looking great and heavy.

Maybe if someone of you guys have your bottles in reach and youre using a "recommendet" brand, you can take a look ant tell me how much calcium they put in there, if they even do. If this manufacturer just fills 16% of the bottle with calcium and no ther brand does that-did they found a secret trick or is it just nonsense? Theres not much in between imho.