Should I trim low laying branches?

[Jimster]

Tomatoes don't typically go thru a vegetative stage and then revert to a flowering stage, so some of the comparisons are true, while some are not. With that being said, I have grown for the vast majority of my life. I am not a commercial grower and I don't grow more than 5 or 6 plants on avg. When it comes to buds, from my uneducated observations, plants don't sequester nutrients from high light growth to areas of low light energy, namely the lower branches. Regardless of where I take my buds from... top or bottom, the biggest influence on their size is light exposure. If it is the main bud, if it doesn't get strong light, it isn't going to grow any better than a spindly lower branch, and lower branches can grow like a tree if they get the strong, direct light that the tops get.
Removing some leaves or branches to benefit other previously covered bud spaces will increase the yields as it allows for better light penetration. The bottom branches die off if they aren't producing enough energy to keep them going, I have never witnessed any benefits from removing the lower growth. I think the distinction between defoliation and selective leaf plucking is a matter of degree, as was mentioned earlier. Defoliation doesn't increase yields, but selective pruning or leaf removal does. To make a blanket statement that removing all of these bottom leaves and branches benefits the plant in a significant way, I can't agree based on my experience. Please take note that I said "In my experience", so I don't piss off any true scholars out there.

 

[BigCube]

Did you read my posts. I agree pruning to allow for light and airflow is important.... More so in indoor grows.

I also agree pruning methods such as topping will increase yields.

Am I missing something. Did I mix something up? Because I thought you were talking about defoliation.

You must have missed something man. Pruning includes removing leaves from a plant.

Directly from wikipedia:
Pruning often means cutting branches back, sometimes removing smaller limbs entirely. It may also mean removal of young shoots, buds, and leaves.

You do know that wikipedia is unreliable right? In fact most colleges will not accept any research using wikipedia.

Do you know why colleges don't accept wiki as a source? If you went to college you would know, it's because... brace yourself... it's not a source.

It links to sources where you can actually find real sources. Those, any college would be more than happy to accept.

Evidence is all I need.

 

[Aqua Man]

Tomatoes don't typically go thru a vegetative stage and then revert to a flowering stage, so some of the comparisons are true, while some are not. With that being said, I have grown for the vast majority of my life. I am not a commercial grower and I don't grow more than 5 or 6 plants on avg. When it comes to buds, from my uneducated observations, plants don't sequester nutrients from high light growth to areas of low light energy, namely the lower branches. Regardless of where I take my buds from... top or bottom, the biggest influence on their size is light exposure. If it is the main bud, if it doesn't get strong light, it isn't going to grow any better than a spindly lower branch, and lower branches can grow like a tree if they get the strong, direct light that the tops get.
Removing some leaves or branches to benefit other previously covered bud spaces will increase the yields as it allows for better light penetration. The bottom branches die off if they aren't producing enough energy to keep them going, I have never witnessed any benefits from removing the lower growth. I think the distinction between defoliation and selective leaf plucking is a matter of degree, as was mentioned earlier. Defoliation doesn't increase yields, but selective pruning or leaf removal does. To make a blanket statement that removing all of these bottom leaves and branches benefits the plant in a significant way, I can't agree based on my experience. Please take note that I said "In my experience", so I don't piss off any true scholars out there.

This is my experience also.

 

[BigCube]

This is my experience also.

Same. I'm sure most commercial growers dont prune is cause it takes man hours when hundreds of plants are involved. They just make up for it in numbers.

I could be wrong, but just makes sense from a businesses perspective. Less time in veg, less man hours, less time till harvest.

 

[Aqua Man]

You must have missed something man. Pruning includes removing leaves from a plant.

Directly from wikipedia:
Pruning often means cutting branches back, sometimes removing smaller limbs entirely. It may also mean removal of young shoots, buds, and leaves.



Do you know why colleges don't accept wiki as a source? If you went to college you would know, it's because... brace yourself... it's not a source.

It links to sources where you can actually find real sources. Those, any college would be more than happy to accept.

Evidence is all I need.

I know what pruning is and what it includes. What I'm saying is exactly as was stated by Jim imo. Again defoliation and pruning are different as far as my knowledge goes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Selective pruning is absolutely beneficial in my experience. However it's much more so in indoor growing. Outdoor there is a lot better air flow and light penetration. Much much less is needed if at all. With the exception of topping to a certain degree. You may get more bud sites but they will be smaller. IMO topping is better used indoor to keep an even canopy to improve light distribution.

 

[BigCube]

Tomatoes don't typically go thru a vegetative stage and then revert to a flowering stage, so some of the comparisons are true, while some are not. With that being said, I have grown for the vast majority of my life. I am not a commercial grower and I don't grow more than 5 or 6 plants on avg. When it comes to buds, from my uneducated observations, plants don't sequester nutrients from high light growth to areas of low light energy, namely the lower branches. Regardless of where I take my buds from... top or bottom, the biggest influence on their size is light exposure. If it is the main bud, if it doesn't get strong light, it isn't going to grow any better than a spindly lower branch, and lower branches can grow like a tree if they get the strong, direct light that the tops get.
Removing some leaves or branches to benefit other previously covered bud spaces will increase the yields as it allows for better light penetration. The bottom branches die off if they aren't producing enough energy to keep them going, I have never witnessed any benefits from removing the lower growth. I think the distinction between defoliation and selective leaf plucking is a matter of degree, as was mentioned earlier. Defoliation doesn't increase yields, but selective pruning or leaf removal does. To make a blanket statement that removing all of these bottom leaves and branches benefits the plant in a significant way, I can't agree based on my experience. Please take note that I said "In my experience", so I don't piss off any true scholars out there.

I actually just read a study that found exactly that. It goes in to more detail about how it works I'll try to find it again.

 

[BigCube]

I know what pruning is and what it includes. What I'm saying is exactly as was stated by Jim imo. Again defoliation and pruning are different as far as my knowledge goes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Selective pruning is absolutely beneficial in my experience. However it's much more so in indoor growing. Outdoor there is a lot better air flow and light penetration. Much much less is needed if at all. With the exception of topping to a certain degree. You may get more bud sites but they will be smaller. IMO topping is better used indoor to keep an even canopy to improve light distribution.

Definition of PRUNE

a plum dried or capable of drying without fermentation… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I would say cutting off unwanted leaves in efforts of increasing your fruit production falls under: to cut off or cut back parts of for better shape or more fruitful growth.

Or : to cut away what is unwanted or superfluous.

Topping is pruning, fimming is pruning, defoliating is pruning, cutting off branches is pruning and even cutting the roots is pruning.

I think we are all talking about the same thing.

 

[Aqua Man]

Definition of PRUNE

a plum dried or capable of drying without fermentation… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I would say cutting off unwanted leaves in efforts of increasing your fruit production falls under: to cut off or cut back parts of for better shape or more fruitful growth.

Or : to cut away what is unwanted or superfluous.

Topping is pruning, fimming is pruning, defoliating is pruning, cutting off branches is pruning and even cutting the roots is pruning.

I think we are all talking about the same thing.

From what most refer to defoliating it the removal of all fans leaves at flip or shortly into flower. At least that was my understanding. I agree I think we are all talking about the same things. I still feel pruning isn't for the most part necessary outdoors. But there are definitely exceptions to that

 

[Ace9137]

Tomatoes don't typically go thru a vegetative stage and then revert to a flowering stage, so some of the comparisons are true, while some are not. With that being said, I have grown for the vast majority of my life. I am not a commercial grower and I don't grow more than 5 or 6 plants on avg. When it comes to buds, from my uneducated observations, plants don't sequester nutrients from high light growth to areas of low light energy, namely the lower branches. Regardless of where I take my buds from... top or bottom, the biggest influence on their size is light exposure. If it is the main bud, if it doesn't get strong light, it isn't going to grow any better than a spindly lower branch, and lower branches can grow like a tree if they get the strong, direct light that the tops get.
Removing some leaves or branches to benefit other previously covered bud spaces will increase the yields as it allows for better light penetration. The bottom branches die off if they aren't producing enough energy to keep them going, I have never witnessed any benefits from removing the lower growth. I think the distinction between defoliation and selective leaf plucking is a matter of degree, as was mentioned earlier. Defoliation doesn't increase yields, but selective pruning or leaf removal does. To make a blanket statement that removing all of these bottom leaves and branches benefits the plant in a significant way, I can't agree based on my experience. Please take note that I said "In my experience", so I don't piss off any true scholars out there.

Experience is the requirement for Knowledge, through progress and/or failure, to develop your own grow style. You can read all the books in the world, unless you put it into practice all you have is theory. @Jimster , I agree with you, how it was explained to me was that it is like the plant is sealing off a room. Like senescence when a tree will absorb all nutrients so it is able to produce leaves in the next year.

 

[Ace9137]

this is interesting.

 

[Jimster]

this is interesting.

I perused the article, and while it is very useful at explaining photosynthesis processes and ways to improve them, a lot of the data is going on 40 years old or more. It appears that genetic manipulation would be needed for most of the improvements to photosynthesis. It DOES provide some interesting ideas, but I think most of them would be beyond the abilities of the avg grower. No information is bad information, so it is a good reference for further work.

 

[Ace9137]

I perused the article, and while it is very useful at explaining photosynthesis processes and ways to improve them, a lot of the data is going on 40 years old or more. It appears that genetic manipulation would be needed for most of the improvements to photosynthesis. It DOES provide some interesting ideas, but I think most of them would be beyond the abilities of the avg grower. No information is bad information, so it is a good reference for further work.

It is kind of where I was going with this,"Genetics". You can not go beyond the genetics of the plant, well unless you have a CRISPR, even then the average grower must rely on selective breeding, which comes down to what a plant can endure. In other words," It was my high ass making an obscure comment in order to lead to another point in the topic."

 

[Aqua Man]

this is interesting.

I have read into this subject quite a bit in the past but a lot of it escapes me now. One question I cannot seem to find a definitive answer to is if cannabis is classed as a c3 or c4? Hoping you can answer that for me and put my brain to rest on it lol.

Going to take a better look at that article when I get a chance thanks for the link.

 

[Ace9137]

I have read into this subject quite a bit in the past but a lot of it escapes me now. One question I cannot seem to find a definitive answer to is if cannabis is classed as a c3 or c4? Hoping you can answer that for me and put my brain to rest on it lol.

Going to take a better look at that article when I get a chance thanks for the link.

Cannabaceae - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

This may help? I am still learning and my studies have barely touched on some of these subjects.

 

[Cannabizz]

I’ve only grown cannabis for one run. So by far no cannabis expert. I do however have a degree in horticulture and I can tell you from years of experience that training and defoliation techniques are very proven . For instance a simple tomato plant. You will by far get greater yields and quality of fruit if you cut off the first flower blossoms that you see in order to let the plant grow larger in its vegetative growth stage.you initially stall it. This defoliation is a example of how training techniques can improve harvests. There are many more examples. Pumpkins, melon, squash, orchard trees.

Horticulture is massive, cannabis is a niche.

Here is a DIY experiment you can try:

Just trim lower leaves on one plant and leave the other to it's own

When you flower, you will see that the top buds are getting the fattest while everything below it are smaller. Oh damnit, I just ruined the experiment.....

Anyway, you'll see that leaving those smaller branches on produces popcorn sized buds or sometimes even popcorn kernel buds. That was energy the plant took away from the bigger buds to try and focus on the lower, smaller buds.

 

[Migrower]

https://fruitgrowersnews.com/article/pruning-is-more-science-than-art-these-days/.
Here is a link to some info on pruning fruit bearing species. All stating pruning is necessary for not only larger yields but better quality product as well.

 

[Ace9137]

You might want to pay attention when pruning, first off, removing leaves is bad. Remove the popcorn buds only, leave the branches and leaves, the buds above will get bigger in the upper areas, if you remove both leaves and branches (from the lower area) you will damage your plant and may affect your flower. Just remember the upper stuff still gets most of the light indoors, outdoors you are setting your plant up to die, examples of this are bug infestations, diseases, and even nutrient deficiency. Your choice on how you want to grow, just remember, that shock can also kill a plant.

 

[Aqua Man]

I think grow style needs to be taken into account. Apical dominance and light play big roles in bud size. If you have light to the buds I would say leave them. Some suggest when harvesting twice (taking the ripe buds and letting the rest flower until ripe) the second harvest produces more potent buds. I have not tried this method personally yet but in about 5 weeks I will be giving it a go.

 

[Beachwalker]

I think grow style needs to be taken into account. Apical dominance and light play big roles in bud size. If you have light to the buds I would say leave them. Some suggest when harvesting twice (taking the ripe buds and letting the rest flower until ripe) the second harvest produces more potent buds. I have not tried this method personally yet but in about 5 weeks I will be giving it a go.

I think you'll like harvesting that way, when I have room and time I let lower buds go about a week to 10 days longer and they really swell up and finish nicely!

 

[Ace9137]

I think grow style needs to be taken into account. Apical dominance and light play big roles in bud size. If you have light to the buds I would say leave them. Some suggest when harvesting twice (taking the ripe buds and letting the rest flower until ripe) the second harvest produces more potent buds. I have not tried this method personally yet but in about 5 weeks I will be giving it a go.

I am doing it with my current grow,(some on the matter of buds are to heavy for the branches). So far, I think I do see some improvement, I remove very little leaf, sometimes the bud only.