Sick plants, needs professional help please. Using Heavy16 line

az2000 · Jul 22, 2019

Jack og said:
I’ve had trouble with happy frog, I find that it ends up rotting the root zone, it’s too dense and I’ve learned to cut it with basement mix, coco-perlite and I’ve had no issues since.

Seraphine said:
FFOF is too hot and too acidic for that that nutrient line, he probably needed a basic potting soil mix with no added amendments for his self adjusting pH nutrient line.

I've never used Fox Farms (or any dense, heavy soil). I probably shouldn't have an opinion. But, I don't understand why Fox Farms hasn't made their soils lighter and more optimal for cannabis. Or, released a new such product as such. Or, made it clearer on the OF soil that the "Trio" shouldn't be used with it. If anyone should know how those products are sub-optimal, or shouldn't be used together, it should be Fox Farms.

When someone uses MiracleGro soils, the customary reaction is "oh, yeah, never use that stuff. They've done a lot to hurt gardeners." I'm not disputing that. But, I see the same kind of problems with people using Fox Farms. (I'm sure there are people happily using Fox Farms. But, it does seem like a perilous product to get into. As Jackog said, he has to lighten it up to make it proper for cannabis. That's always been my perception of it -- not having used it, but seeing others' experiences.).

Is it a lack of alternatives? Or, marketing (like Advanced Nutrients?). I don't see how everyone goes gaga about Fox Farms when it seems to be as treacherous (if not more so) as MiracleGro. I'm sorry if that's incendiary. But, the problems people have seem as substantial. It seems as endemic to the products of both brands. MG's hated on at the drop of a hat, but FF seems to get a pass. I'm sure it's not a perfect comparison. But, it doesn't appear *that* far off either.

Seraphine · Jul 22, 2019

az2000 said:
I've never used Fox Farms (or any dense, heavy soil). I probably shouldn't have an opinion. But, I don't understand why Fox Farms hasn't made their soils lighter and more optimal for cannabis. Or, released a new such product as such. Or, made it clearer on the OF soil that the "Trio" shouldn't be used with it. If anyone should know how those products are sub-optimal, or shouldn't be used together, it should be Fox Farms.

When someone uses MiracleGro soils, the customary reaction is "oh, yeah, never use that stuff. They've done a lot to hurt gardeners." I'm not disputing that. But, I see the same kind of problems with people using Fox Farms. (I'm sure there are people happily using Fox Farms. But, it does seem like a perilous product to get into. As Jackog said, he has to lighten it up to make it proper for cannabis. That's always been my perception of it -- not having used it, but seeing others' experiences.).

Is it a lack of alternatives? Or, marketing (like Advanced Nutrients?). I don't see how everyone goes gaga about Fox Farms when it seems to be as treacherous (if not more so) as MiracleGro. I'm sorry if that's incendiary. But, the problems people have seem as substantial. It seems as endemic to the products of both brands. MG's hated on at the drop of a hat, but FF seems to get a pass. I'm sure it's not a perfect comparison. But, it doesn't appear *that* far off either.

I think it’s marketing. It’s similar to the baby product industry where everyone wants the best for their children. Fox farms soil is actually decent but the NPK values are not listed. It’s a popular soil for non cannabis growers too. The consumer has to read the ingredients and make a decision based on their prior knowledge of soil amendments. Growers without a background in soil science whether self taught or at a university don’t know what the nutrients and their concentrations add to the soil. Their decision to add additional inputs to already heavily amended soil is not their fault. It’s a new grower mistake, one that I’ve made in the past too.

oldskol4evr · Jul 22, 2019

im difrent,i dont blame any of the soil providers i blame on the gardener,yep we all think we can plant one seed,like jhonny apple seed did come back a year later and there is a tree with nothing but mother nature to feed it,get the point yet,problem lies in the force feeding of products it really does,the fox trio was mentioned,just those 3 can get you all the way to smoking medicine,same with mg,if used only when needed,they dont expect to have to read the plant ,instead leave all in the hands of which ever nute provider there using,sorry dont work that way,there isnt a magic bean as mickey mouse found out with the bean stalk,damn look what was on the other end hahaahh,weed is legal in most states and now that it is out of the closet prices for the magic meds sore,so they think just plant a seed buy 4 thousand bucks of bells and whistle and wahla you have a bag of smoke,no folks aint the soil providers,did you ever stop to think why the 25%perlite everyone mention to add to those soils could be the problem?by watering and feeding every 3 days washes the shit out of pots,in ground soil how much perlite do you see in it,none,the plant thrive on soil bioligy ,soil texture,clay is a big factor for exchange ,while you think it just compacted shit,it is a sponge of nutrient and moist provide that calcium ,sulfur,magnese,and on on,but the problem lays right were you see in a mirror,you tube is the culprit too,newbies watch these sponsored growers and get all that shit free just from mentioning a name,quit watching and listening to these folks they love your dime,read your plants folks more time than not problems come when you think you need n for when they start yellowing or just not green enough,what about sulfur?all comes down to leaving the plants alone read the leaves they will let you know when it hungry hot or ill,then intervene

Seraphine · Jul 22, 2019

I don’t use fox Farms soils because I like to control all inputs including pH because when I control all inputs, I can easily determine root cause of any issues. The only way I would use fox farm soils is outdoors and I only to rake it into my beds like you would a soil amendment.

oldskol4evr said:
im difrent,i dont blame any of the soil providers i blame on the gardener,yep we all think we can plant one seed,like jhonny apple seed did come back a year later and there is a tree with nothing but mother nature to feed it,get the point yet,problem lies in the force feeding of products it really does,the fox trio was mentioned,just those 3 can get you all the way to smoking medicine,same with mg,if used only when needed,they dont expect to have to read the plant ,instead leave all in the hands of which ever nute provider there using,sorry dont work that way,there isnt a magic bean as mickey mouse found out with the bean stalk,damn look what was on the other end hahaahh,weed is legal in most states and now that it is out of the closet prices for the magic meds sore,so they think just plant a seed buy 4 thousand bucks of bells and whistle and wahla you have a bag of smoke,no folks aint the soil providers,did you ever stop to think why the 25%perlite everyone mention to add to those soils could be the problem?by watering and feeding every 3 days washes the shit out of pots,in ground soil how much perlite do you see in it,none,the plant thrive on soil bioligy ,soil texture,clay is a big factor for exchange ,while you think it just compacted shit,it is a sponge of nutrient and moist provide that calcium ,sulfur,magnese,and on on,but the problem lays right were you see in a mirror,you tube is the culprit too,newbies watch these sponsored growers and get all that shit free just from mentioning a name,quit watching and listening to these folks they love your dime,read your plants folks more time than not problems come when you think you need n for when they start yellowing or just not green enough,what about sulfur?all comes down to leaving the plants alone read the leaves they will let you know when it hungry hot or ill,then intervene

I agree, I do think the manufacturers should list NPK values though. I follow the no till method and practice all organic methods on my microfarm. My indoor garden is different. I use processed mineral fertilizers but my IPM is organic.

oldskol4evr · Jul 22, 2019

Seraphine said:
I think it’s marketing. It’s similar to the baby product industry where everyone wants the best for their children. Fox farms soil is actually decent but the NPK values are not listed. It’s a popular soil for non cannabis growers too. The consumer has to read the ingredients and make a decision based on their prior knowledge of soil amendments. Growers without a background in soil science whether self taught or at a university don’t know what the nutrients and their concentrations add to the soil. Their decision to add additional inputs to already heavily amended soil is not their fault. It’s a new grower mistake, one that I’ve made in the past too.

ive actually done ph testing on both ,4 difrent bags at difrent times of the year,there ocean forest has a 6.5 ph,Nis over abundance,Pis adequite,K is adequit,the soil is what they say it is ,that N count though mercy off the charts,i have never found ocean forest to hot as claimed,when i buy bag soil i just drop a seed in there and roll,never had burns and such as folk cliam,i never add more perlite for exchange its already in the bag,again soil structure,i think folks just want to touch the plants and expect it to grow 2 inches a day andworst off is this boaster shit,you ever read some the thread of help me,most never throw a pic up first,then they give have of what they been doing and after 2 pages of confo oh by the way how much of this mammoth p or which ever boaster they use gets mentioned,i have and again the grower know what it was that done whatever,just waiting for someone to say it,makes them feel better that another made same mistake,well we did except it and onward threw the fog we go

az2000 · Jul 22, 2019

oldskol4evr said:
read your plants folks

To my mind, that's a chicken & egg thing. People don't learn to read their plants when they don't know what they're giving it (soils without NPK ratios published; multi-bottle "lineups" that *obscure* the NPK ratio being produced by 5ml of Monkey Snot, 10ml of Donkey Dandruff, ...).

It seems like some of these companies make it treacherous/impossible to read your plants. There's no common language. It's all abstracted. And, for all the hate toward MiracleGro... they didn't get into this "lineup-based" opacity until they bought General Hydroponics. Who led who astray in that regard?

I agree with you that growing requires skill. Some of these companies make it harder than it should be to acquire skill. It's like people have to do it *despite* the companies' best efforts to make things less than optimal (dense soils, non-existent NPK ratios).

oldskol4evr · Jul 22, 2019

Seraphine said:
I don’t use fox Farms soils because I like to control all inputs including pH because when I control all inputs, I can easily determine root cause of any issues. The only way I would use fox farm soils is outdoors and I only to rake it into my beds like you would a soil amendment.

I agree, I do think the manufacturers should list NPK values though. I follow the no till method and practice all organic methods on my microfarm. My indoor garden is different. I use processed mineral fertilizers but my IPM is organic.

thats what i mean,you can take soil and grow reamend when needed,but when it comes down to it,those plants cut at soil level and left in the pots,that were organic matter comes from,the decomposed roots and such,without organic matter in you pots ,boxes,beds,your beating your head again a wall if you dig,organic matter provide life below the lights and magic happens right there,when i grow the herb i just buy a bag of soil cause in my sitiution i cant leave a living soil around for herb,i grow and sit on a couple pounds and smoke it then start over,im almost done with my stash and 2 pounds last me a year hahahah

Roxyheart420 · Jul 22, 2019

It sounds like my next run will be with Coco. That way I can control everything. I had one person come back and tell me to look for russet mites. UGH! If I can't see them with a naked eye (as they say) how can one attempt to get rid of them. I don't want to start spraying things in my room for a guess of mites. He said they have all the characteristics of everything I have been going through. Anybody have any experience with this.

az2000 · Jul 22, 2019

Roxyheart420 said:
It sounds like my next run will be with Coco. That way I can control everything. I had one person come back and tell me to look for russet mites. UGH! If I can't see them with a naked eye (as they say) how can one attempt to get rid of them. I don't want to start spraying things in my room for a guess of mites. He said they have all the characteristics of everything I have been going through. Anybody have any experience with this.

Do you have a scope/loupe? That seems like it would be the first step. Harbor Freight has a set of loupes cheap. Also a clip-on magnifying glass that you can attach to reading glasses. It's very strong (two lenses that rotate down in front of the glasses). I use that *a lot*. It's not strong enough to look at trichomes. But, it should be good enough to see mites. Get reading glasses with the highest magnificatin (3x?). Those will multiply the two lenses that rotate in front of the glasses.

Jack og · Jul 22, 2019

az2000 said:
I've never used Fox Farms (or any dense, heavy soil). I probably shouldn't have an opinion. But, I don't understand why Fox Farms hasn't made their soils lighter and more optimal for cannabis. Or, released a new such product as such. Or, made it clearer on the OF soil that the "Trio" shouldn't be used with it. If anyone should know how those products are sub-optimal, or shouldn't be used together, it should be Fox Farms.

When someone uses MiracleGro soils, the customary reaction is "oh, yeah, never use that stuff. They've done a lot to hurt gardeners." I'm not disputing that. But, I see the same kind of problems with people using Fox Farms. (I'm sure there are people happily using Fox Farms. But, it does seem like a perilous product to get into. As Jackog said, he has to lighten it up to make it proper for cannabis. That's always been my perception of it -- not having used it, but seeing others' experiences.).

Is it a lack of alternatives? Or, marketing (like Advanced Nutrients?). I don't see how everyone goes gaga about Fox Farms when it seems to be as treacherous (if not more so) as MiracleGro. I'm sorry if that's incendiary. But, the problems people have seem as substantial. It seems as endemic to the products of both brands. MG's hated on at the drop of a hat, but FF seems to get a pass. I'm sure it's not a perfect comparison. But, it doesn't appear *that* far off either.

My experience with fox farms and consulting with them has led to to add more drainage. They say that they want the consumer to have the most out of the soil, they make it hot, so that you can cut it. Also growing regions have a play into how your soil in pots behave. In tents, provided you have great temp and humidity control, you don’t need to do anything. Just water and very light organic feed after 4weeks, in pots outdoor, regional dependency is key, say my example, I’m constantly in a marine layer with humidity at 80~s year around, coastal central California, I find the soil never drains out and holds water at root zone longer which leads to root rot. Amending with a coco perlite mix helps ME alleviate said issues. In dryer climates one would assume the plant will feed readily and issues with water logged soil wouldn’t show. In ground fox farm is ideal, they work like a charm. The surrounding ground is a large sponge that drains naturally. My other grow inland we find we have to water daily, 100~temps 20-25% humidity in grow season. We also find we need to start feeding earlier then 4 weeks and plants do great. So let’s also take into consideration where we grow and the surrounding environment and tailor media to that environment you are in. Soil manufacturers give you a start and you need to build upon your needs and experience. A guide just gets you started and as you gain the experience, write down what’s working and what’s not, and over time one develops their own “recipe “ to success.

Seraphine · Jul 22, 2019

Roxyheart420 said:
It sounds like my next run will be with Coco. That way I can control everything. I had one person come back and tell me to look for russet mites. UGH! If I can't see them with a naked eye (as they say) how can one attempt to get rid of them. I don't want to start spraying things in my room for a guess of mites. He said they have all the characteristics of everything I have been going through. Anybody have any experience with this.

I had to laugh at that! You never know with plants. Do you have a jeweler’s loupe? I think you can see them with the 60x or 90x magnification but I can’t remember off the top of my head. It’s good to check regularly for pests as part of your IPM (integrated pest management).

Coco sounds like the best option for you and for the nutrient line you use. You can feed daily with good air circulation and keep them in smaller (fabric) pots because you don’t need the root space like you do growing in soil. I use one gallon fabric pots with coco and grow 4ft tall plants. Some of my sativas yield 5oz per plant. I have a couple grow diaries on here with my coco grows
If you want to check them out.

Jack og · Jul 22, 2019

Roxyheart420 said:
It sounds like my next run will be with Coco. That way I can control everything. I had one person come back and tell me to look for russet mites. UGH! If I can't see them with a naked eye (as they say) how can one attempt to get rid of them. I don't want to start spraying things in my room for a guess of mites. He said they have all the characteristics of everything I have been going through. Anybody have any experience with this.

Here are a few pics of the leaves that have russets, these are from the internet search on russet issues. See which leaf symptoms fit your bill but without a scope or magnifying glasses it’s not easily identifiable. But if u have pitted curled leaves, most likely its russet or worse broad mites. It’s very distinctive

Jack og · Jul 22, 2019

Seraphine said:
I had to laugh at that! You never know with plants. Do you have a jeweler’s loupe? I think you can see them with the 60x or 90x magnification but I can’t remember off the top of my head. It’s good to check regularly for pests as part of your IPM (integrated pest management).

Coco sounds like the best option for you and for the nutrient line you use. You can feed daily with good air circulation and keep them in smaller (fabric) pots because you don’t need the root space like you do growing in soil. I use one gallon fabric pots with coco and grow 4ft tall plants. Some of my sativas yield 5oz per plant. I have a couple grow diaries on here with my coco grows
If you want to check them out.

Agree! If you like to feed maybe stay away from soils and go to a coco type media! But coco has a learning curve and isn’t forgiving ! Read up and heck throw one plant out with it and see what your shortcomings will be

Roxyheart420 · Jul 22, 2019

Seraphine said:
I had to laugh at that! You never know with plants. Do you have a jeweler’s loupe? I think you can see them with the 60x or 90x magnification but I can’t remember off the top of my head. It’s good to check regularly for pests as part of your IPM (integrated pest management).

Coco sounds like the best option for you and for the nutrient line you use. You can feed daily with good air circulation and keep them in smaller (fabric) pots because you don’t need the root space like you do growing in soil. I use one gallon fabric pots with coco and grow 4ft tall plants. Some of my sativas yield 5oz per plant. I have a couple grow diaries on here with my coco grows
If you want to check them out.

Thank you I would love to check them out. Can you point me to them? I've never used coco but it sounds like something I would have more control over.

Seraphine · Jul 22, 2019

This grow has been ongoing:

Sativa Dom Grow

A strawberry amnesia bud. Dried, not cured yet. Some of the sugar leaves took on a really pretty reddish/pink hue. Really enjoyed this thread, just sorry I wasn't here from the beginning. Planning my first coco grow and have been reading everything I can...

www.thcfarmer.com

I just started these:
I couldn’t get a working link pasted in here so just search for this: Dinafem XXL White Widow Autos, coco coir grow

Roxyheart420 · Jul 22, 2019

Seraphine said:
This grow has been ongoing:

Sativa Dom Grow

A strawberry amnesia bud. Dried, not cured yet. Some of the sugar leaves took on a really pretty reddish/pink hue. Really enjoyed this thread, just sorry I wasn't here from the beginning. Planning my first coco grow and have been reading everything I can...

www.thcfarmer.com

I just started these:
I couldn’t get a working link pasted in here so just search for this: Dinafem XXL White Widow Autos, coco coir grow

I'm trying to find this..What part of THCFarmer.com do I type this in. What section is it in?

az2000 · Jul 22, 2019

Roxyheart420 said:
I'm trying to find this..What part of THCFarmer.com do I type this in. What section is it in?

The referenced thread is here. (<<link).

BTW: To search the forum you have to go to https://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/ . There is a navigation bar across the middle of the screen. "What's new | Find Threads | Watched | Search." It's that search.

Roxyheart420 · Jul 23, 2019

az2000 said:
The referenced thread is here. (<<link).

BTW: To search the forum you have to go to https://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/ . There is a navigation bar across the middle of the screen. "What's new | Find Threads | Watched | Search." It's that search.

Update on garden, thank you all for your input. I have found the problem! One person on this thread said he had the same problem and it came from Russet Mites. I got a microscope and looked and sure the fuck I do have them. FML However, not all is lost I am heavily spraying for them and hopefully I can save this crop.
Thank you to this form and great minds alike (lol) I have found the problem. This really is a wonderful thing we have here. So thank you for all the input. We update as I go, that's the only way people will find out if it really works or not.

Seraphine · Jul 23, 2019

Damn. Guess you did get some bad clones.

You’re outdoors, greenhouse? I’d get some predatory mites once you’re done spraying.

Roxyheart420 · Jul 23, 2019

Seraphine said:
Damn. Guess you did get some bad clones.

You’re outdoors, greenhouse? I’d get some predatory mites once you’re done spraying.

I'm indoor. I had a gut feeling from day o.k maybe day 5 that the clones felt bad. I feel like I should of takin a loop with me when I bought them to make sure they were mite free. Next time I will look. So now Green Cleaner claims that it gets rid of russet mites and broad mites. I sprayed the shit out of them 2 days in a row so far. I'm looking at other products as well. Do you or anyone here have any experience with mites and getting rid of them. I'm only in week 2 of flower thank god, so I don't have to be worried about my buds. However, I have about 3-4 plants that I don't think will make it through. I have new growth on all plants, I just think I should get rid of the really bad plants in there. Thoughts?

Sick plants, needs professional help please. Using Heavy16 line

Sick plants, needs professional help please. Using Heavy16 line

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