Slow growth since switching to LED

[Aqua Man]

I think you nailed it with that post. That's the 1st time I saw the LED potential. Great post.

That was also done in a 1 gal pot of coco lol.

 

[Tasty Buds]

Thanks brother but i dam near killed that thing a few times lol. Not gonna lie its a tad embarrassing to show

Nah man, you should be proud of that. She looks like she's about to get up, and head back to "The Land of the.Lost" if you remember that?

 

[Aqua Man]

Nah man, you should be proud of that. She looks like she's about to get up, and head back to "The Land of the.Lost" if you remember that?

Hell yeah i do

 

[Tasty Buds]

I believe it comes down to the grower, the genetics, and the $. Not necessarily in that order.
That wouldn't be called Sleestack Kush, would it?

 

[Aqua Man]

I believe it comes down to the grower, the genetics, and the $. Not necessarily in that order.
That wouldn't be called Sleestack Kush, would it?

I agree and nope that gelato a member sent me 3 seeds from a pack that was split with a friend of theirs for an absurd price. 2 were male if I remember right

 

[Tasty Buds]

There's a thread about the cost of seeds. Coming up I never thought I'd see "auto" produce as the appear. I used to get em as freebies but never grew one out.
Perhaps I'll be a little Johnny Appleseed, and see how they do.
A lot has changed in just 10 years. I actually use for med purposes, and it's kept me off opiates. I owe my life to cannabis, and dedicated a large part of my life to cannabis.
I remember the gen before me saying some of the same things I catch myself saying now too. No matter how much times change, certain things won't. I'm learning to be cool with it. I've had a difficult time adjusting, but that's on me

 

[Aqua Man]

There's a thread about the cost of seeds. Coming up I never thought I'd see "auto" produce as the appear. I used to get em as freebies but never grew one out.
Perhaps I'll be a little Johnny Appleseed, and see how they do.
A lot has changed in just 10 years. I actually use for med purposes, and it's kept me off opiates. I owe my life to cannabis, and dedicated a large part of my life to cannabis.
I remember the gen before me saying some of the same things I catch myself saying now too. No matter how much times change, certain things won't. I'm learning to be cool with it. I've had a difficult time adjusting, but that's on me

Breeding is going in bad direction for some time now and many traits are being lost. Once the world see the benefits of diverse traits, terps etc. and not only the medical benefits but the type and intensity of the high is highly effected also by them and not just THC everyone will be kicking themselves in the ass. Grab any of the old stuff ya can before its lost.

Im not a breeder and not even very well versed in the strains but you dont have to be when you start seeing the results of all these new studies… terps are a huge factor in the intensity of the gigh and almost if not just as important as the thc levels

 

[Aqua Man]

Heya @Kanzeon how ya been brother? Soeaking if breeders maybe he will chime in on tgis for those interested?

Hope @Weedgrower doesn’t mind all this off topic stuff… if you do sir just send me a PM and ill clean up my mess

 

[Heywood]

.
Actually you should make this one a sticky Aqua... there is so much good information in here...

 

[Aqua Man]

.
Actually you should make this one a sticky Aqua... there is so much good information in here...

In a couole months im going ti post some articles probably on lighting and possibly some diagnosis info after i finally finished getting these systems launched.

 

[Kanzeon]

Re: Switching from HID to LED's- @mysticepipedon hit the nail on the head when he mentioned temperature. Having the driver placed strategically with LED's is big factor. Also buying good lights from known companies with good customer service like kingbrite and HLG. Everyone should be wary of amazon grow lights.

High leaf temps (with proper VPD and ventilation) drive transpiration, which increases water and therefore nutrient uptake (assuming fertigation practices are locked down), which increases growth rate.

Re: Breeding

Like @Aqua Man said, a lot has been lost/ignored due to the pursuit of high THC levels over everything else in modern breeding. Thankfully there are quite a few good heirloom/landrace seed banks and chuckers around so those genetics will remain available for people to explore.

 

[growsince79]

Re: Switching from HID to LED's- @mysticepipedon hit the nail on the head when he mentioned temperature. Having the driver placed strategically with LED's is big factor. Also buying good lights from known companies with good customer service like kingbrite and HLG. Everyone should be wary of amazon grow lights.

High leaf temps (with proper VPD and ventilation) drive transpiration, which increases water and therefore nutrient uptake (assuming fertigation practices are locked down), which increases growth rate.

Re: Breeding

Like @Aqua Man said, a lot has been lost/ignored due to the pursuit of high THC levels over everything else in modern breeding. Thankfully there are quite a few good heirloom/landrace seed banks and chuckers around so those genetics will remain available for people to explore.

Technology has changed the genetic outcomes imo. There is no substitute for human testers. Breeding based on lab tests and pictures produces different genetic mix compared to plants selected from human testing and selection.

 

[rolandrog]

You might want to look into the digital controller from lumatek. It costs a pretty penny but gives you so much more control over the light. You can change the intensity with 1% increments. I use the 600w pro version of the zeus and since ive had it ive stressed and burnt my plants everytime. These lights are pretty crazy. I recall that for the 1000w they advise the use of co2 also otherwise you cant even run it full blast unless its far away from the canopy which dont make sense either.

buy a par meter for $500 instead of any other equipment.

 

[growsince79]

buy a par meter for $500 instead of any other equipment.

The last thing anyone needs is a $500 par meter. LOL

 

[Aqua Man]

The last thing anyone needs is a $500 par meter. LOL

Im in this camp also

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

I also feel that IR is an iption but some newer studies have me retginking its benefit.

Hey Aqua up to 780nm light can still target both chlorophyll and photoreceptors, and there quite a number of growers adding IR heaters to their winter grows. The radiative heat seems to be better in terms of reaching inside the structures as just touching it from the outside.

I've seen this too often when HID guys jump into LED that growth is retarded initially, too cold temps with high irradiance may be the culprit.

It's really hard to fully compare barlight irradiation vs HIDs because of the complexity of the matter at hand. I agree with what you mostly wrote but think that in this specific case HPS's colours transmit better through a leaf due to:
- that barlight has not so much green but high red under the curve
- HPS yellow also transmits somewhat "ok" in that regard
- worst in terms of transmittance is red 660nm, followed by blue, here the HPS is rather deficient (other ways to look at it would put that as a negative)
- all light-colours except red & farred can lead to chlorophyll-fluorescence reducing light-loss via heat-conversion (NPQ). Though farred doesn't need it as FRs deep-effect is already superior

But that's all logic theory shedding light on some of the properties that are inane to leaf optical properties. I'm missing out here greatly on chloroplast movement or ambient light generation/angle of incident of infalling lightbeams.

Or, for example, the sheer strength of photon output by numbers on behalf of the LED, which can already make the plant grow shorter internodes. Here, 730nm could really help. And loo, one sub-class of phytochrome IS even temperature-sensitive ;)

Some LED mwnufacturers still go down the old blue-veg red-bloom HID route though 3500k LED has already enough blue to grow cannabis just fine/veg shorter internodes. Too much blue has the negative effect of being energetically unfavourable (blue is lost too much) and leaf morphology is small in area reducing initial light interception (until footprint is filled out). That calls in the question of how many plants in a given space are actually grown - how long is vegtime planned etc?
A SOG with clones may benefit from a blue-shifted spectrum more in terms of additional root growth while a SCROGG could better be filled with red/farred. Lots of scroggers have to remove a weekly hand of foliage and that is just lost dry matter in my opinion.
The customable spec abilities will give more rise to optimize individual setups no doubt, I just hope the industry develops more efficient monochromatics, currently it's basically 440 660 & 730 mostly.
Also broadband UV, as it's just downright nonpragmatic to fill such a large bandwith 280-425nm with monos !! ;)

 

[Shaded_One]

I'm so glad people like you guys exist. I absorb 20% of what I understand and do what I can with the rest 😂

 

[Blastfact]

View attachment 1246050

I'm so glad people like you guys exist. I absorb 20% of what I understand and do what I can with the rest 😂

Yeah,,, that did it for me. I'm going to smoke weed and drink a lot of cheap white wine today. Brain is going the opposite way--today!

 

[Aqua Man]

Hey Aqua up to 780nm light can still target both chlorophyll and photoreceptors, and there quite a number of growers adding IR heaters to their winter grows. The radiative heat seems to be better in terms of reaching inside the structures as just touching it from the outside.

I've seen this too often when HID guys jump into LED that growth is retarded initially, too cold temps with high irradiance may be the culprit.

It's really hard to fully compare barlight irradiation vs HIDs because of the complexity of the matter at hand. I agree with what you mostly wrote but think that in this specific case HPS's colours transmit better through a leaf due to:
- that barlight has not so much green but high red under the curve
- HPS yellow also transmits somewhat "ok" in that regard
- worst in terms of transmittance is red 660nm, followed by blue, here the HPS is rather deficient (other ways to look at it would put that as a negative)
- all light-colours except red & farred can lead to chlorophyll-fluorescence reducing light-loss via heat-conversion (NPQ). Though farred doesn't need it as FRs deep-effect is already superior

But that's all logic theory shedding light on some of the properties that are inane to leaf optical properties. I'm missing out here greatly on chloroplast movement or ambient light generation/angle of incident of infalling lightbeams.

Or, for example, the sheer strength of photon output by numbers on behalf of the LED, which can already make the plant grow shorter internodes. Here, 730nm could really help. And loo, one sub-class of phytochrome IS even temperature-sensitive ;)

Some LED mwnufacturers still go down the old blue-veg red-bloom HID route though 3500k LED has already enough blue to grow cannabis just fine/veg shorter internodes. Too much blue has the negative effect of being energetically unfavourable (blue is lost too much) and leaf morphology is small in area reducing initial light interception (until footprint is filled out). That calls in the question of how many plants in a given space are actually grown - how long is vegtime planned etc?
A SOG with clones may benefit from a blue-shifted spectrum more in terms of additional root growth while a SCROGG could better be filled with red/farred. Lots of scroggers have to remove a weekly hand of foliage and that is just lost dry matter in my opinion.
The customable spec abilities will give more rise to optimize individual setups no doubt, I just hope the industry develops more efficient monochromatics, currently it's basically 440 660 & 730 mostly.
Also broadband UV, as it's just downright nonpragmatic to fill such a large bandwith 280-425nm with monos !! ;)

I appreciate the reply brother… and really glad to have these convos with you.

Have a few things to bounce back and hear your opinion on aswell if again you dont mind… just a bit busy for the afternoon for a post involving thought lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah,,, that did it for me. I'm going to smoke weed and drink a lot of cheap white wine today. Brain is going the opposite way--today!

I feel that brother… sometimes we need a release from the grind to reset. In my case i had to put my reset button in a box and hide the key for special occasions cause i was spamming that thing like playing ring king or space invaders at the arcade as a child lmao.