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Ok like button exhaustion. I have a shit ton of experience with DO lvls in the past only in aquatic settings. The most important part is surface area and the larger the surface area and the more movement it has the greater the gas exchange capability. Surface area usually being the biggest factor. So by adding airstones to the bucket you will greatly increase the capability for gas exchange. Generally trickle filters and waterfalls are used because of limitation of surface area
Would this mean then that by having a more shallow but longer and wider bucket that this would potentially allow better DO enrichment from much greater surface area?
 
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lol not bad man but the spacing on those are for like 8 week veg,You could have put 12 buckets in the same space,3 week veg and grew 5 pounds in that space with the right lights.20 inch centers are perfect for a quick veg and flip unless you have 10 foot ceilings and want to grow trees.
Hope everything works out for you
When I grew last time it was an 8 week grow and you are correct. It was perhaps the perfect spacing. This grow system was based off the same growth standerds.This is why there are three holes in each bucket. This way I can grow 3 times as many plants with only a 3 to 4 week veg and cover the same canopy area.

This time I will be growing with a scrog set up to match the dimensions of each bucket separately. I may need more than 4 weeks but with this setup I should be able to fill the same canopy with less height and hopefully less time.

There will be some space in the middle and outer edges but I'm hoping this will allow for easier plant upkeep.
 
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Would this mean then that by having a more shallow but longer and wider bucket that this would potentially allow better DO enrichment from much greater surface area?
absolutely you would increase the capability... but that doesn't mean you will provide more DO. It only means you increase the likelyhood of not becoming deficient
 
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absolutely you would increase the capability... but that doesn't mean you will provide more DO. It only means you increase the likelyhood of not becoming deficient
6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other. In this situation those two are almost synonymous, wouldn't you say?


P.s. Anyone have any advice for airstones that are putting out hardly any bubbles? In my system I have 4 of two kinds of stones, bells and 4" pucks. Two of the balls are hardly putting out any bubbles compared to the other two. They've all been cleaned in water/bleach solution for multiple days. Then they were all put in straight water for a couple days. Then I ran them for 48 hours and those two are running like crap but the others are crazy full.
 
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6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other. In this situation those two are almost synonymous, wouldn't you say?


P.s. Anyone have any advice for airstones that are putting out hardly any bubbles? In my system I have 4 of two kinds of stones, bells and 4" pucks. Two of the balls are hardly putting out any bubbles compared to the other two. They've all been cleaned in water/bleach solution for multiple days. Then they were all put in straight water for a couple days. Then I ran them for 48 hours and those two are running like crap but the others are crazy full.
Nope not at all the same. Think of it like this you fill a glass up with water. The water represents oxygen at equilibrium. If you try to add more water it wont fill the cup anymore but if you poke a hole in the cup (simulating plants using oxygen) then you need to put more in or the cup will empty. How fast you can fill it up depends on you supply of water. so the greater the gas exchange capability the great your flow of water and less chance you have for the cup to end up empty but anything more than needed to keep the cup full is wasted.

I don't think ppl realize oxygen is very hard to dissolve in water without pressure unless levels are below equilibrium. All those little bubbles do is provide the surface agitation to facilitate gas exchange. Very insignificant amounts actually dissolve in water on their way up. But they also create water movement and keep the solution mixed well that includes dissolved gasses
 
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When I didn't consider the science, not that I know it at all, of it I thought o2 transferred from the bubble to the water but then I thought about it and figured it out, on a layman's level ofcourse.

Talk about surface tension, that's what bubbles are all about.
 
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6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of the other. In this situation those two are almost synonymous, wouldn't you say?


P.s. Anyone have any advice for airstones that are putting out hardly any bubbles? In my system I have 4 of two kinds of stones, bells and 4" pucks. Two of the balls are hardly putting out any bubbles compared to the other two. They've all been cleaned in water/bleach solution for multiple days. Then they were all put in straight water for a couple days. Then I ran them for 48 hours and those two are running like crap but the others are crazy full.
Boil them for 10 minutes and they will work good as new
 
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you want a simple test so you can see for yourself? We use carbonic acid to to lower our in aquariums because can manipulate the PH with it and it provides a boost in carbon supplied to the plant same principle as Co2 injection in MJ grow with the added beefit of controlling PH.

Take 2 bottles of soda water (water with Co2 injected into it) Open one and measure the PH then every and stick an airstone in it. Open the other and leave it sit with no airstone. Test the PH of both every 30 mins and see which ones PH rises faster. this will continue until the Co2 has reach equalibrium and the change will slow down as it gets closer to equalibrium.
 
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Nope not at all the same. Think of it like this you fill a glass up with water. The water represents oxygen at equilibrium. If you try to add more water it wont fill the cup anymore but if you poke a hole in the cup (simulating plants using oxygen) then you need to put more in or the cup will empty. How fast you can fill it up depends on you supply of water. so the greater the gas exchange capability the great your flow of water and less chance you have for the cup to end up empty but anything more than needed to keep the cup full is wasted.

I don't think ppl realize oxygen is very hard to dissolve in water without pressure unless levels are below equilibrium. All those little bubbles do is provide the surface agitation to facilitate gas exchange. Very insignificant amounts actually dissolve in water on their way up. But they also create water movement and keep the solution mixed well that includes dissolved gasses
Muratic acid 5%, hydrogen peroxide or diluted bleach 3 parts water to one bleach if they are glass stones. Basically anything that breaks down organics. soak overnight then rinse and run them with air in water change water every 5 mins 2-3 times is plenty. Boiling will work but might leave some stubborn particles further inside.
 
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So then wouldn't a pressurized container system for dwc the best way of increasing oxygen? I guess my earlier comment about maximum PPM numbers for given temperatures also only stands true for sea level operation?
 
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Wouldn't the perfect thing to increase the do some type of small device that floated on the surface of the water and vibrated at some sort of harmonic frequency?
 
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So then wouldn't a pressurized container system for dwc the best way of increasing oxygen? I guess my earlier comment about maximum PPM numbers for given temperatures also only stands true for sea level operation?
nope oxygen is extremely hard to dissolve in water at or above equilibrium and not even worth trying. I have a rex grigg reactor i built for dissolving Co2 in water. Works great I have tried to run oxygen through it and all its does is build up, gurgle and chug out large bubbles of oxygen. I run it with Co2 and I can dissolve enough to cause a PH crash if I don't have enough buffering.

Temp is easier but really your looking at it to complex. if you have enough DO your good... trying to get more really is not feasible for our purposes
 
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Just remember the goal is to create optimal gas exchange to keep oxygen as close to equalibrium as possible. Not provide more oxygen if that makes sense
 
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Shouldn't the pressure be the same no matter the length once it reaches its end?

Meaning if there were ten houses all the same size but varying lengths that attached to stones that only let 5% of the air through them. In this situation wouldn't it not matter about the length of the hoses since the maximum level of air hasn't escaped the system?
 
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Shouldn't the pressure be the same no matter the length once it reaches its end?

Meaning if there were ten houses all the same size but varying lengths that attached to stones that only let 5% of the air through them. In this situation wouldn't it not matter about the length of the hoses since the maximum level of air hasn't escaped the system?
Yes and no... there is resistance at the end of each stone based on physical makeup of the stone and that is increased by water pressure, the deeper the stone is in water the more pressure resistance. Air compresses pretty easily and the more air in the line (longer line) the more of a cushion effect you have. So it will take longer to build up the pressure needed to push the air through the stone. It will travel the path of least resistance so the shorter lines will have more flow as they can build up pressure faster. Now if have a pump that puts out more volume than can be used it would minimize this effect or all together negate it allowing max flow to all stones.
 
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The biggest factor will always be the airstones themselves. The impact of length would be minimal. Just wanted to add so you don't over think it. I know I over think everything.
 
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Do all of you guys get this sludge in the bottom of your buckets and most likely the tubes as well? If you do do you remove it during each flush or only between harvests? Is this substance detrimental to the root systems?

I was thinking that taller buckets would be helpful in keeping your root system out of this. Perhaps one of the reasons using shallower totes is not a good idea?

I understand from Heisen that I'll be cleaning an inline filter more often than its usefulness is worth but you know how I am. Looking at my system it just appeared to he the best option for filtering sediment before the pump.

If I need to clean it once a week that won't be that bad but we'll see.

P.S. Yes Heisen I know you already warned me.:eyepiece:
 
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I use to get sludge before i increased my airstone size and went to hydroguard.Now my system stays crystal clean.I only do a complete system flush if i have to.Im still using the same starting water i ran in there 4 weeks ago.
 

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