Sprouted Seed Tea (does This Really Work)?

  • Thread starter jumpincactus
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
Tnelz

Tnelz

4,053
263
@Tnelz -- corn? Esplain us more, please.

Sourdough starter is a source of lactobacillus. My starter is getting VERY sour now, which indicates a higher level of lactobacillus and other lactic acid generating bacteria. Leavens my bread pretty well! Either way, these bacteria are floating around in the wild, on all kinds of surfaces, etc. All they need is the right food and conditions.
Corn isn't any different sprouting wise than peas or alfalfa just a beefier seed. Actually great in bloom apparently. A sugar thing I'd imagine. Buildasoil is where I'd steer you for information on the subject. They offer different types of barley corn and alfalfa. All of which come with an explanation. I'll get a link here in 2 minutes.
 
SonOfDaMourning

SonOfDaMourning

710
143
@Tnelz -- corn? Esplain us more, please.

Sourdough starter is a source of lactobacillus. My starter is getting VERY sour now, which indicates a higher level of lactobacillus and other lactic acid generating bacteria. Leavens my bread pretty well! Either way, these bacteria are floating around in the wild, on all kinds of surfaces, etc. All they need is the right food and conditions.

Yeah i decided to start a carbo trap w/ rice water to lure and generate more lacto from the link @CBGB stated, whats good bro!
If i can recall buildasoil said corn sprouts are better for the flower cycle.
 
Tnelz

Tnelz

4,053
263
Yeah i decided to start a carbo trap w/ rice water to lure and generate more lacto from the link @CBGB stated, whats good bro!
If i can recall buildasoil said corn sprouts are better for the flower cycle.
That is correct sir. Although I've used it in veg just trying to see if there was any difference in response. To be honest I couldn't tell the difference but I won't be using it in veg anymore. Going to make a tea this week with budswell, corn sst, and some grokashi. Should be a winner.
 
Tnelz

Tnelz

4,053
263
Im also looking into fungi teas, have you ever indulged in this type of tea @Tnelz this is all new to me but im uber interested.
So it's a kind of tough thing. Lol. A tea will not actually cause fungi to multiply only grow. Brewing will actually cause the fungi u have to grow larger but it's not like a bacterial bloom. Someone else may be able to give u a better answer. General rule is the longer the brew the more fungal dominant it will become. I sometimes take some castings and kelp meal a little Molasses and mix that into a sort of mud pie. Put it into a warm dark place for a few days and it will grow a nice white mold on top. I do believe that is fungal hyphe (spelled wrong). Add that to an aact and I believe it adds a bunch of fungi. Recently I've been adding grokashi to this mix. Fish hydrosylate and kelp as well as baby food are great fungal foods. I also add the baby food to the kelp meal ewc mix.
 
Tnelz

Tnelz

4,053
263
This is the baby food I use
20150323 130338
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

Premium Member
Supporter
11,609
438
I'm not sure what you are actually looking for @SonOfDaMourning Typically fungal teas can be made with mushroom based compost. This is some information possibly you can use.

I hope this helps you out.

Fungus vs. Bacteria

Most teas are bacteria-dominant. However, in flowering, fungus is a tremendous benefit to your plants.I wouldn't stress this if I hadn't seen for myself what a difference the fungi make. Organic plants are all about fungi when flowering. If the fungi aren't present, there's just no way to push your plants to the limits of yield and quality.In fact,fungi-dominant teas are so good that they're the trick to achieving yields that border on those produced in finely tuned hydroponic environments.

Fungus takes longer to grow than bacteria. In the population race, bacteria always outgrows fungi by a large margin. Thus, when making a fungi-dominant tea, you have to give the fungi a head start.

Fungus plays a special role during flowering,delivering things such as phosphorous to the plants roots.They also breakdown secondary mineral nutrients and ammonium nitrogen available to the roots.Bacteria then convert the ammonium nitrogen to nitric nitrogen.Both varieties of nitrogen,ammonium and nitric,can be used by a cannabis plant and help it grow vigorously.

Nitric Nitrogen:Makes the plants grow shorter & wider,with closer node spacing.

Ammonium Nitrogen: Causes some stretch in the plant.

Nutrient Flexible

Teas can provide your plants with more than good bacteria.If your plant are lacking food or you encounter a problem that you need to correct,teas are an excellent vehicle for infusing your soil with nutrients.

Personally, I utilize teas mostly to provide my plants with fungi. How many nutrients you should add to you tea depends on what you already have in your particular soil (and needs of your plants).I pack my soil with tons of long-term nitrogen,phosphorous,and potassium,so I don't have to worry about the tea playing the role of nutrient provider.

Aerobic vs. Anaerobic Bacteria

The only real gotcha with organic teas is aeration.You must continually aerate your organic teas.Why?There are two types of bacteria that can develop in you tea : Aerobic and Anaerobic.Anaerobic doesn't need oxygen and is nasty stuff.If you ever smell your tea and it stinks of sewer,don't use it!It means that there's anaerobic activity.A good tea that's rich in aerobic activity will smell like very rich soil (the kind that's teaming with earthworms).Anaerobic teas are bad for more reasons than the fact that they literally smell like shit.They can also manifest E. Coli and introduce things like alcohols,which can kill your plants fast.Good aeration isn't just to supply oxygen to your plant roots.It's also a catalyst that teases the microbes and protozoa out of the compost-or earthworm castings,in the case of vermicompost-without killing them.After the continuous bubbling pushes them out,they consume the nutrients and simple sugars in your tea and multiply in a big way (creating the microlife boom that will,in turn,produce a bust,wherein large numbers of microbes will die their carcasses will nourish your plants' roots).

Thou Shalt Not

There are certain varieties of compost and brewing conditions that should be avoided when brewing a batch of organic tea.

Chlorine: I've said it before and I'll say it again: Never use chlorinated water on organic soil! This obviously includes teas. But if your only source of water is chlorinated, don't freak out. Simply drop an airstone in an uncovered container of the water for 24 hours. Your chlorine problems will be gone.

Compost Leachates: This is just compost squeezed and pressed.It's not very nutrient rich.But it'slack of nutrients isn't the problem (remember,using teas as a vehicle for transporting nutrients to your plants is a supplemental benefit).The problem is anaerobic activity,which can spell death for your plants.

Compost Extracts: While these provide more nutrient value than compost leachates,they still contain anaerobic activity (the big "I'm a dumbass" move in the world of organic teas).

Violent Aeration: Aeration is your friend and the key to a potent tea that's teaming with good bacteria. But too much aeration on the scale that provides an excessive amount of agitation and turbulence to the tea-is a bad thing becuase it will actually beat the microbeasties to death! Be gentle with the teas; remember that they're teeming with microbes!

Ultraviolet/HID/Sunlight: Avoid any high intensity lights or sunlight.Instead,use "normal" house lighting,such as florescent or tungsten.However,avoid any light source near your tea brewer.Regular room lighting is fine,but-as a rule of thumb-dimmer is better.

Mother Mary's Tea Recipes:

*The measurments below are for a one gallon tea bubbler. When making teas in smaller containers,simply adjust the recipe or dilute the final tea with water.

*In these recipes, brew the tea with an airstone in a one gallon container for 24 to 48 hours. When you're done brewing, strain it through a nylon stocking (for topical/sprayer applications) or a standard strainer (for normal watering applications) and cut it 50/50 using dechlorinated water.

*Fungi-dominant tea compost should be mixed together and kept very wet for three to seven days prior to brewing. Store it high in a room, near the ceiling and in the dark. The microlife and fungi populations will really bloom if you place a heating pad-set to low-below the container (shoot for 68-75 degrees fahrenheit;20-24 degrees celsius). After three days,it will be visibly booming with fungus (what I call "Santa's Beard"). Put this in your tea brewer and bubble it (in place of regular compost).

*Prepare for the container to foam up and bubble over. You should place a tray under your tea bubbler and avoid any electrical or other items that may be damaged or unsafe around the bubbling water.

Vegetative Stage Recipe:

* One Gallon Water *: R/O water,rain water,distilled etc. etc.

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured)1-0-5)*:
Be sure to use only the unsulfured variety.This is because sulfur kills microlife,especially fungus (unless it's elemental sulfur in small ratios).

* One Teaspoon liquid Alaskan Fish Fertilizer (5-1-1)*:
Fungus and bacteria both love fish ferts and go nuts reproducing when it's included.

* One Cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or good outdoor compost*:
Vermicompost provides humates,enzymes,protozoa,nemat odes,bacteria,fungus,trace elements,secondary and primary nutrients.

* One Teaspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).

Flowering Stage Recipes:

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured) (1-0-5) *:
An excellent source of potassium during flowering;bacteria prefer these simple sugars,whereas the fungus prefer more complex sugars derived from various organic matter.

* One Teaspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).

* One Teaspoon High Phosphorous Bat Guano (0-4-0) *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* One cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or regular compost *:
Good balance of nutrient (trace and secondary).Also a source for microbes and beneficial elements.

* One teaspoon Maxicrop liquid or 1/2 teaspoon water soluble Maxicrop or kelp/seaweed extract (dry) *:
A fungal favorite,this is a key tea ingredient that produces a good ratio of happy fungus.It's also booming with trace elements,some nitrogen,and some potassium.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source for phosphorous,magnesium & sulfur.

Fungus Dominant (halfway through flowering) Recipes:

* 1/2 cup Earthworm Castings *:
See above.

* 1/2 cup Mushroom Compost *:
This is fungus waiting to happen.A rich source of fungal spores and dense organic matter that fungi like to eat.

* Two tablespoons Powdered,100% Natural rolled oats *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* Two teaspoons Kelp Meal *:
I use kelp meal for several reasons.It's organic matter that fungi like to attach themselves to.Fungi love kelp extracts as a primary food source and the rich trace elements and potassium it introduces.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source of phosphorous,magnesium and sulfur.

The earthworm castings,mushroom compost,oatmeal,and kelp meal are first mixed together and made very wet.After fungus has grown on this blend,place it in your tea bubbler for 24 hours with some additional liquid (or water soluble) kelp/seaweed extract and Micronized (soft) rock phosphate.

 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

Premium Member
Supporter
11,609
438
Here is some additonal information for fungal teas using mushroom compost. It is cautionary in as much as the mushroom fungal tea is a recipe for flowering stages only. You dont want to use it on new starts/seedling etc. Here is some more info on it.

Mushroom compost--use carefully

Commercial mushroom growers in the Willamette Valley grow tons of mushrooms in an elaborate mixture that gardeners love - mushroom compost. Often sold at landscape supply houses, mushroom compost can help amend garden soil, but should be used with caution, according to John Hart, soil scientist with the Oregon State University Extension Service. Mushroom compost is rich in soluble salts and other nutrients and can kill germinating seeds and harm salt-sensitive plants including rhododendrons and azaleas.

The recipe for mushroom compost varies from company to company, but can include composted wheat or rye straw, peat moss, used horse bedding straw, chicken manure, cottonseed or canola meal, grape crushings from wineries, soybean meal, potash, gypsum, urea, ammonium nitrate and lime.

"Each mushroom growing facility has its own recipe," explained John Stout, general manager of PictSweet Mushrooms in Salem. "It's very precise. The compost ingredients are weighed out, then mixed in."

At the PictSweet mushroom farm, huge piles of mushroom compost sit for about 30 days and do what compost does - heat up. The straw provides the structure and some food for bacteria, and the urea, cottonseed meal and chicken manure provide most of the nutrients.

The bacteria multiply, forcing the temperature inside the pile up to more than 160 degrees F, killing any weed seeds or pathogens that might have been present in the straw or animal wastes. The result is mushroom compost, ready to grow a crop of commercial table mushrooms.

The cured compost is placed in beds in a dark, cool and humid warehouse and then is pasteurized at about 140 degrees F to kill any surface disease-causing organisms and pests, said Stout. Workers then inoculate the compost with mushroom spores. Underground roots called mycelium grow in the compost, then five weeks after inoculation, mushrooms are ready to pick. A crop continues to be harvested for three to four weeks before the bed is exhausted, said Stout.

After every planting cycle, the compost is removed because it is "used up," by the growing mushrooms. But it still has plenty left for gardeners and landscapers - it is sold to nurseries, landscape supply firms and general contractors all over the state, said Stout.

Mushroom compost can supply nutrients and increase the water-holding capacity of the soil. But mushroom compost can be too much of a good thing for seeds, seedlings and young plants, said OSU's Hart.

"The soluble salts and other nutrients in fresh, undiluted mushroom compost, are too concentrated for germinating seeds, young plants and other salt-sensitive plants including members of the heath family such as rhododendrons, blueberries and azaleas," said Hart.

To avoid killing germinating seeds and stressing heath family members, Hart recommends mixing mushroom compost with garden soil before using it on young plants. Or, order a supply of mushroom compost in the fall and let it sit uncovered, to "cure" over the winter.

Used with care, mushroom compost also can be used as a mulch around perennials, trees and shrubs, said Hart. For flower beds and vegetable gardens, till about 3 inches of the compost into the top six inches of fairly dry garden soil. For containerized plants, fresh mushroom compost should only make up about one-quarter of the volume of soil in the container. Remember that rhododendrons, azaleas, camellias and other members of the heath family will be injured by salts unless mushroom compost is "cured" first.

When ordering or buying mushroom compost, remember that one cubic yard of compost will cover about 100 square feet of garden to a depth of about 2 inches.

Author: Carol Savonen
Source: John Hart, John Stout


 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

Premium Member
Supporter
11,609
438
And here is someone elses opinion of mushroom compost. Take what you want and leave the rest. I think he is concerned about using it as a general amendment to soil. But what we would be looking for is the fungal spores to activate and soup up our AACT's for flowering mode. So I am a little confused about the chemical thing and if it is really safe to use mushroom compost or not.. Arrrggghhhhhh

Why I Don't Recommend Mushroom Compost

Mushroom compost is, in my opinion, one of the most over-hyped gardening products on garden shop shelves. Let us examine the data.

How Are Mushrooms Grown

They're grown on compost made specifically for this purpose. This compost is made by mushroom producers from material such as hay, straw, corn cobs, poultry and horse manure – or any combination of organic material that is 1) inexpensive and 2) readily available.

Mushroom facilities do try to create a consistent compost so their production will be standardized.

The compost is made in large piles on concrete pads and when done, is loaded into dark buildings and mushroom spawn is sown.

The heat of the composting will kill off most weed seeds and other problems if it is done properly.

The mushroom crop is grown and normally 3 harvests are taken.

The spent compost is then removed, the buildings cleaned and sterilized and the process begun anew with the next batch of compost.

So – what are we left with.

quote-braisedmushroom-pix.jpg

9



What Are We Left With Afterwards

This is essentially organic matter

Research into using this material as a substitute for peat moss or other organic material in commercial nursery production systems have had to use a regular feeding system because the nutrient levels are too low to produce a crop.

If you purchase this material, you are not getting a nutrient level high enough to grow a good crop of plants.

There is also a high salt level in most spent mushroom compost that has to be leached out before the crop is planted.

General analysis of nutrient levels are (N=0.7% , P= 0.3% , K= 0.3% ) which is to say – negligible.

By contrast, bagged manure sold in most garden shops is N=1%, P=1%, K=1% (bagged manure has approximately 3X more nutrients than this compost)

You will not get a major nutrient benefit mushroom compost.

Chemical Residues

Mushroom farmers have major problems with flies and fungus gnats in their growing facilities and are licensed to spray regularly with such products as methoprene, cyromazine and diflubenzuron, Dimlin and Diazanon.

There are also fungal infections that can wipe out a mushroom crop and require control by such chemicals as benomyl, thiabendazole and chlorothalonil.

Naturally, if treated with any chemicals or having used any kind of artificial nutrient to create a composting action, mushroom compost will not qualify for use on certified organic farms. Some of these chemicals are what is termed "persistent" in that they do not break down quickly or under microbial action.

compost-pile-row-pix.jpg

9

Compost pile in rows

Cost

Every time I see this stuff for sale, it is sold at very high prices (often for fund raising ventures). Compared to the cost of a bale of peat moss or a bale of straw, spent mushroom compost is extremely expensive. This compost is not cost effective .

As with many things, readers have written to say mushroom compost is not expensive in their neighborhood. It's a big world out there and I simply suggest you compare the cubic foot cost versus other organic matter.

I regularly get letters

I routinely get letters from mushroom producers saying "yes but"

Yes but - I know gardeners who use my compost and get great results

Yes but - I don't use chemicals (or not many)

Yes but - you need to update your understanding of modern mushroom growing.

But not one of them can disagree with the chemical registrations and the fact that they are used in the majority of commercially produced mushrooms.

So yes, if you want to garden expensively and don't care about possible chemicals in your garden - you can use mushroom compost.

Apply a lot of it and you'll probably get a good looking but expensive crop of plants. The vegetables won't be organic but as long as you don't eat the flowers, they'll look good.

Let me simply say this - if a mushroom producer is certified organic and is selling mushroom compost as certified organic - then I'd consider using it in specific situations if I required compost.

Without that certification, then my original message is the same. I assume it has chemicals, fungicides that will disrupt my soil ecology, and is expensive organic matter when compared to other organic sources. As for the fertilizer value of this product, it isn't close to other organic products in cost-value.

So nope, don't recommend it.



What Do I Use Instead

I use compost made from my garden or composted manure from nearby farms. But most of you don't live near farms so you'll either have to make your own or use composted manure from local retailers.

For organic matter, I'm using old hay or purchased bales of straw as mulch in the vegetable garden. The ornamental gardens have wood chips we pick up at our municipal recycling area.
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

Premium Member
Supporter
11,609
438
Another good site. they have product if anyone is having a hard time sourcing materials
@jumpincactus on a roll! Do you have threads I am looking, maybe in wrong place. Would you link me up to your grow thread/s?
@primordial what is your question? Are you asking if 13 sprouts is enough? The recipe is at the beginning of this thread. Pare it down to suit your needs. You could I imagine use 13 just not sure how much soup you would have.

heres the link, forgot it.....
 
primordial

primordial

73
33
Another good site. they have product if anyone is having a hard time sourcing materials

@primordial what is your question? Are you asking if 13 sprouts is enough? The recipe is at the beginning of this thread. Pare it down to suit your needs. You could I imagine use 13 just not sure how much soup you would have.
Thanks for point me to the beginning of thread. I must admit I stopped reading all the way through cuz it's a mother load of info but I'll get to reading because really want to contribute.

So I'm free styling this experiment with no hypothesis or procedure just playing around with a plethora of stuff...but thee sprouts I'm using are growing from my worm bin lol
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

Premium Member
Supporter
11,609
438
Thanks for point me to the beginning of thread. I must admit I stopped reading all the way through cuz it's a mother load of info but I'll get to reading because really want to contribute.

So I'm free styling this experiment with no hypothesis or procedure just playing around with a plethora of stuff...but thee sprouts I'm using are growing from my worm bin lol
The key with whatever you play with is be sure not to let the final product go anaerobic on you. peace out
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom