one thingh about a chiller that is a FACT - the lower the temp the more oxygen availabe to the plant/root zone with 66-68 being optimal

anything colder can stress the plant

So it's root, root, root for the home team...if they don't win it's a shame

Oh BM....so naive.

Keep studying up and you'll soon catch up to the curve you're currently riding behind on. Not certain what the motivation is behind this "Anti Chiller Coalition" but it makes no sense at all.

Bottom line, when growing crops worth 10's of thousands of dollars do your due diligence and safe guard your crops. With water culture this means use clean/pure nutes and use a chiller to maintain proper root zone temps.

Please post a thread using a UC or MPB and do otherwise if you'd like to create a new paradigm for success in water culture. My guess is you've never even grown in either and your just throwing around your opinion as fact.....but that's just my opinion.

so 75ish degrees for 12 hrs a day is gonna be the end of me huh

Ya right....exactly why I dont really waste my time trying to prove something thats already proven....I think you need to be the one doing the studying...oh wait your an expert...forgot. Me just a little po newbie....

And what makes no sense is wasting money and electric on chillers that are not needed and telling peeps FALSE information like warmer water will slow the growth of the plant. But whatever...

And my guess is you dont know what the hell your talking about or what my experience level is...but keep guessing. And keep posting your NONSENSE! I wont be around to read it unfortunatly as it is a waste of time.

UCMENOW said:

Oh BM....so naive.

Keep studying up and you'll soon catch up to the curve you're currently riding behind on. Not certain what the motivation is behind this "Anti Chiller Coalition" but it makes no sense at all.

Bottom line, when growing crops worth 10's of thousands of dollars do your due diligence and safe guard your crops. With water culture this means use clean/pure nutes and use a chiller to maintain proper root zone temps.

Please post a thread using a UC or MPB and do otherwise if you'd like to create a new paradigm for success in water culture. My guess is you've never even grown in either and your just throwing around your opinion as fact.....but that's just my opinion.

Click to expand...

TheBioMaster said:

Ya right....exactly why I dont really waste my time trying to prove something thats already proven....I think you need to be the one doing the studying...oh wait your an expert...forgot. Me just a little po newbie....

And what makes no sense is wasting money and electric on chillers that are not needed and telling peeps FALSE information like warmer water will slow the growth of the plant. But whatever...

And my guess is you dont know what the hell your talking about or what my experience level is...but keep guessing. And keep posting your NONSENSE! I wont be around to read it unfortunatly as it is a waste of time.

Click to expand...

I was kind of hoping you were gonna provide some links to prove this. Something, anything.

f1ydave- There is SOOO much info on this topic I really see no need to prove anything. The science speaks for itself. Why do you guys think clones root at higher temps?

Where is the proof that these low 65F temps are needed or useful? And please do not attempt DO saturation as your point as there is SO much more involved than just DO levels. Some proof I do see however is peeps with chillers and 65F temp water with root rot.

Sorry but I wont argue or try and prove something that is already been proven such as water temp and what it should be for deep water hydroponics. There are literaly hundreds of books on the subject, DVD's and beginners growing guides if you want proof.....you dont need links from me.

DM- 75F is a little warm, you might wanna try and stay between 68F and 72F which is a happy medium between DO saturation levels and what makes the plant roots happy.

TheBioMaster said:

f1ydave- There is SOOO much info on this topic I really see no need to prove anything. The science speaks for itself. Why do you guys think clones root at higher temps?

Where is the proof that these low 65F temps are needed or useful? And please do not attempt DO saturation as your point as there is SO much more involved than just DO levels. Some proof I do see however is peeps with chillers and 65F temp water with root rot.

Sorry but I wont argue or try and prove something that is already been proven such as water temp and what it should be for deep water hydroponics. There are literaly hundreds of books on the subject, DVD's and beginners growing guides if you want proof.....you dont need links from me.

DM- 75F is a little warm, you might wanna try and stay between 68F and 72F which is a happy medium between DO saturation levels and what the makes the plant roots happy.

Click to expand...

if there is so much info, please link it. i would like to read it myself. since there is so much, shouldn't be a problem. you must have something bookmarked?

f1ydave- And you must have access to google.....please do read get and read the info..get your self a beginners guide to hydroponics. You can read it there for sure.

74 is the max temp, like stated earlier it swings into the lower 60's for 12 hrs a day as well.

and a good ol 56 days to go.

TheBioMaster said:

DM- 75F is a little warm, you might wanna try and stay between 68F and 72F which is a happy medium between DO saturation levels and what makes the plant roots happy.

Click to expand...

fatman? is that you?

exactly how is he going to control his water to stay in that range? with his mind? that is exactly why a chiller is used so you can control your environment, its not that some jerk pulled these number out of the sky, much like an air conditioner is used to keep your plants at an exact temperature to allow for maximum C02 uptake.

if you want to be a "myth buster", than you cant just say it you have to prove it, because many people before you have done their homework and there is a reason 68*-72* is the magic range.

Ill bow out I dont want to jack your thread,

Final Reprise

DM did someone say 75F and you're done? Actually temps sustained over 78F and things are likely to tank, but that's only if other co-factors are out of balance. It's this synergy of imbalance that can and will tip the scales against you, so just make zero mistakes and you'll be fine.

BM...you refer to rooting which more often then not requires a heat mat with low temps to maintain between 74-78F for establishing primordial roots, which can then blossom into feeder roots. This recommendation is for grow mediums like rockwool, peat, coco, perlite.....not water.

Use an aero cloner or bubble cloner and you'll experience delayed rooting at the a fore mentioned temps. This is an easy misconception so I can see where you might be confused. If you'd like more info on optimum aero cloning temps contact ez clone and I'm sure they'll get you dialed in.

As for nutrient manufacturers recommending tepid water....this is primarily to aid in further solubilizing the mineral nutrient to aid in it's dilution. And tepid water applied to soilless mediums housing ben. biology can stimulate plant roots.....in a soilless media, not water as a substrate.

Fact of the matter is the rules we've learned as gardeners change when water becomes the primary grow medium. Referencing rules that apply to soil, coco and the like isn't that unusual, unless you've grown in water.

No doubt plants can live in water conditions in the mid 70's - low 80's. But it's at these temps that plant roots are far more likely to be over whelmed by anerobic bacteria which thrive in warmer, lower DO conditions. I've even seen plant roots grow in water conditions close to 100F, but I'd never recommend this to anyone with a crop as valuable as MMJ.

Bottom line....DM's got what sounds to be a pretty cool room which should keep his root temps reasonable. This coupled with his obvious skills as a gardener should keep him out of trouble and hopefully provide a banner harvest.

As far as this endless information stream for water culture....unfortunately this doesn't yet exist which is why your misunderstanding is so common. Carbon media based (rockwool, peat, coco, perlite) hydroponics has been pretty well mapped out, but water culture is still a bit of a black art. It's only recently that more professional applications are bringing about a real interest in the facts...more so than the opinion.

I'd like to close with an opinion of mine...cannabis grown in warmer water temps tends to be larfy, and lacks the oil content of what you see grown in sub 70F temps. This is an opinion and only an opinion.

unreal room

DM' your doin ok with out a chiller? I've seen and and done it azillion times...works fine + BM has some good points. The key is to make sure it's all sterile (easier said than done)

We all know Fatmans rants about how it doesn't matter how warm it is if it's 'clean and sterile' you won't have any issues. He's big on that and if you argue the point you pretty much get the sharp end'. He's got good points too.

I love how Fatman spews knowledge...and I' love that he knows tons about pure hydro, nutes and all that...

HOWEVER..I'm sure your well aware by now it's pretty much the NORM in water culture to chill and to HAVE CONTROL...Yes UCMenow is right here... this 'control'is the key... the reason being (imho) is water culture can bite you in the butt quicker than pretty much most other growing methods. I see rookies all the time with root rot NO MATTER the temp.

AND if you do gain CONTROL your growth can be beyond your dreams (you know that of course). The whole point of a chiller imo is to give yourself a fighting chance against the evil Pythium Empire ( which aint goin away any time soon...and to keep yourself from havin a thrombo when your water temp hits 80 in the summer doh...)

To be clear I won't do DWC or SWC or any other hydro without a chiller. I did it for years and was lucky enuf' to live in the coool mountains. It was always get more H202...bene's...then CHLORINE..

Your system is new too...New systems I've noticed have a much higher success rate since they' haven't been infected yet. The plastic will harbor/hold 'bugs'. I've seen this with all kinds of hydro...ebb', airo, 'WC's, clone machines..Your first run without protection will go off fine but then 'mysteriously' the next few crops will take a krap'

The part about 'better oils' I can't comment on but if it's true then that's cool. Logic says that could easily be true since if it's chilly at the end of a good cycle my plants tend to explode with resin. I've often lowered water temps (along with air temps and lower RH) to play that game.... A side by side for that would also be cool

I'm curious what size chiller(s) your planning on?

enough. My thread and I'm over it.

as for the grow. Things are going amazing.

growing on straight auto pilot, things are raging. All strains in the room are poking through the trellis at the same height. Might have to use some bushmaster on the skywalker og and chem as they are raging.

now some pics







Pimp slap bitch



skywalker og

Word....sorry for the drama Step.

Looking top notch....good to see you and the UC's finally getting along. ;)

Beautiful trellis work.

Looking real sweet DM, very clean looking setup!!

Seems a little tight in the pics for tending to the plants?

Will be fun following your work here.. :cool0010:

Bad ass scrog and beautiful plants DMsteppa! :cool

yea I'm a real small guy I've been crawling around in there the last few days trimming up the lower growth. Sure isn't the most fun but its whats gotta be done.

maybe get yourself a creeper bro

you sure did maximize that space and the lights

Im here for the show

going for a straight hedge of nugs, with a ceiling of light.