Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

outwest · May 18, 2012

I'm using water only super soil and the only deficiencies I've seen have been from over watering.

outwest

dankworth · May 18, 2012

I just fed my bishes a little over 4 EC (2000 ppms) earlier today with some of my
pimptastic
http://t0.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBkr1tD3RT6FO3eY7xPNmyHHibq8osQJF8fcelKfgXHJnnIi4m4A
formula, and they
http://t1.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEq-6i0bV3CpN6kOHdfIk4TZrdvCh5IkKF_cPiNqNl0ryuKc1I
loved it.

DowNwithDirT · May 18, 2012

outwest said:
I'm using water only super soil and the only deficiencies I've seen have been from over watering.

outwest

gtfo....this is in the coco forum fool.

dankworth said:
I just fed my bishes a little over 4 EC (2000 ppms) earlier today with some of my
pimptastic
http://t0.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBkr1tD3RT6FO3eY7xPNmyHHibq8osQJF8fcelKfgXHJnnIi4m4A
formula, and they
http://t1.invalid.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEq-6i0bV3CpN6kOHdfIk4TZrdvCh5IkKF_cPiNqNl0ryuKc1I
loved it.

I hope your joking cause your not really even funny......
That's just plain stupid

dankworth · May 18, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
gtfo....this is in the coco forum fool.

I hope your joking cause your not really even funny......
That's just plain stupid

I have to. They show deficiencies otherwise. They are freakish eaters, and I have a lot of light on them.
I tried to get away with 1800 earlier in the week, and they quickly showed Ca deficiency. I keep thinking they should be happy with less.
These are not the smallest plants on the block, though.

DowNwithDirT · May 18, 2012

pics? seriously....asap....

I don't believe it.

and are you in coco?

outwest · May 18, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
gtfo....this is in the coco forum fool.

You have no idea how much I love growing in SOIL. Holy shit SOIL is fucking awesome. Did I mention that I love SOIL? SOIL is the best. Mmmmm. . . SOIL! SOIL! SOIL!

I used to grow in coco, but now I grow in SOIL. Because I love SOIL.

I never pH. I never measure my PPMs. Why? I'm sure you are asking. Because I grow in SOIL.

Ooops! I just SOILed myself.

outwest

DowNwithDirT · May 18, 2012

outwest said:
You have no idea how much I love growing in SOIL. Holy shit SOIL is fucking awesome. Did I mention that I love SOIL? SOIL is the best. Mmmmm. . . SOIL! SOIL! SOIL!

I used to grow in coco, but now I grow in SOIL. Because I love SOIL.

I never pH. I never measure my PPMs. Why? I'm sure you are asking. Because I grow in SOIL.

Ooops! I just SOILed myself.

outwest

GTFO fool. I've done soil and have 4 runs that yielded over 2.5lbs per k.

I've also pulled 2.5 in coco, and 3 in rdwc. So good for you...think your schooling some one but your just pansy.

Thanks for botching up my thread......No wonder I don't come here and keep to the private invite only forums...

dankworth · May 18, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
pics? seriously....asap....

I don't believe it.

and are you in coco?

Sort of in coco. Chow mix, 75% hydroton, 25% coco, then topdressed with some EWC and some more coco. 3 gal ez-roots aeration frames hanging in the lids of 27 gal totes, with a 1.5" or so water layer at the bottom of the tote, due to drain placement. The roots dangle down, and meet the water, and drink that in addition to the topfeed.

I have no pics right now, probably won't post any in public any time soon.
My moms in coco/perlite want like 1200+ ppms. I water clones with 750 ppms all day long, and they love it. They are in 100% coco in 3" net pots in cloning trays on the floor, with a 1k digilux MH in a super sun 2 hanging from a 7'5" ceiling.

Keep in mind I blast them with a lot of light since birth, so they do everything faster, and need higher food values. I keep trying to back the food off here and there, and they keep showing deficiencies when I do that.

My plant needs high ppms compared to other strains I have run in order to be happy. I had to learn how to make nutes from salts just to afford to feed her. I was literally going through a 5 gal jug of cns-17 every 18 days during the peak of flowering. I was going broke buying all the damn food.

I am envious of you guys that can feed such low ppms and get away with it. I am guessing that there is a ppm advantage in running 100% coco instead of a coco mix.

Back when I had 4 gal hempy buckets I think I peaked around 11-1200 ppms for the chemo x og, and 9-950 ppms for the chocolope(fuck chocolope)

I expect that my chemo x og will be hitting 2.5/light some day, and she eats like it too.

Edit- I tell you what, I do have a photo from a while ago from big hempy buckets, well the bud anyways. That peaked at 2250 ppms. I can't remember how to upload photos. I taught myself before, but I straight can't remember how. Advice?

DowNwithDirT · May 18, 2012

Like I told some one before you must be chasing other problems but without pics there is no telling and really with out pics this doesn't matter in the slightest to me.

I used to feed as high as 2.4 ....that makes no sense...It worked, but not right.

I have no run off ever other than at transplant

dankworth · May 18, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
Like I told some one before you must be chasing other problems but without pics there is no telling and really with out pics this doesn't matter in the slightest to me.

I used to feed as high as 2.4 ....that makes no sense...It worked, but not right.

I have no run off ever other than at transplant

That is what the deal is. I get 20% runoff every time I irrigate. It is recommended for coco. Coco, as it disintegrates, kicks down K and S, and collects up Ca and Mg if I remember correctly. Because coco is, in fact, slowly disintegrating as it sits there in our buckets.
If you checked your runoff ppms(if you irrigated until runoff that is) they would be very high. There is a lot of stored salts in your medium. So although your plants are being fed 400 ppms, they are feeding on a higher ppms than that due to the high EC of your medium.

You may consider scraping some medium out of a container, and soaking it in a body of 400 ppm food, and seeing what the EC/ppm level rises to. I bet it is a lot higher than 400 ppms.
Blumat?

dankworth · May 18, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
Like I told some one before you must be chasing other problems but without pics there is no telling and really with out pics this doesn't matter in the slightest to me.

I used to feed as high as 2.4 ....that makes no sense...It worked, but not right.

I have no run off ever other than at transplant

Not even in the slightest?

true grit · May 18, 2012

DWD I use Canna Coco with bio bizz base currently.

Yes super soil is great i agree, trust me i ran it for years prior to coco and honestly dont plan on going back. Good stuff dont get me wrong, but dialing isn't very specific which is what I prefer. Dialed whatever vs. just good super soil runs dont compare...and believe me i love me some super soil runs! But yes, as you alluded to my previous statement- watering tends to lead to more issues than actual nutes.

And dankworth, i can believe it, but thats hydro- at least i consider chow mix coco not close to straight coco which is about capillary effect not passive hydro. Once dialed 2.5/1k should be attainable in coco at a fraction of the nutrient use and PPM, the difference is you are making your own nutes which makes it economically comparable otherwise it plain wouldnt be. This thread is def for the people overfeeding...in coco. Which is more than common for damn sure.

I've ran some vert rooms that I simply could not feed enough due to the amount of light....you know what made better yields in those coco rooms? Reducing the light and letting the plants maximize. Not saying it doesn't work for you, just saying a lot of light doesn't always equal better yields, and doesn't always equate to higher feed.

dankworth · May 18, 2012

For sure, true grit. I would have to check light values later in the day, but I would guess I am less than 5k footcandles or whatever(bright day outside was 10k on the dot) at the top of the canopy at the moment. Definitely not more light than they can process yet.
I keep thinking I am growing in coco, maybe I should reconsider that position lol.

outwest · May 18, 2012

DowNwithDirT said:
GTFO fool. I've done soil and have 4 runs that yielded over 2.5lbs per k.

I've also pulled 2.5 in coco, and 3 in rdwc. So good for you...think your schooling some one but your just pansy.

Thanks for botching up my thread......No wonder I don't come here and keep to the private invite only forums...

Honestly, I offered reference point when using another medium. Was it about CoCo? No. Does it matter? No. Was calling me a fool necessary? No. Was this exchange necessary? No. It was a single one sentence post that would have been ignored by most had you not started name calling over it. Sticking to your invite only forums sounds like a great idea.

SOIL la vie,

outwest

true grit · May 18, 2012

Honestly Outwest though i know your statement was supporting my overwatering theory, chiming in about super soil and soil in general has pretty much no relativity in this thread. Which is why im sure DWD complained. This is def the coco forum, and soil vs. coco arguments are exactly what get a very good thread off point.....as evidenced currently.

No more soil talk- back on topic as this thread is covering a good deal currently and I don't feel like sitting here editing out trash talk. gracias farmers.

DowNwithDirT · May 18, 2012

All I will say outwest is that is the EXACT kind of attitude that I would expect in the organic soil growers forum over at i see mag.

Thought we could squash that in PM but we can see it to an end here. Good day ......Now back to coco, and things that pertain.

dankworth said:
That is what the deal is. I get 20% runoff every time I irrigate. It is recommended for coco. Coco, as it disintegrates, kicks down K and S, and collects up Ca and Mg if I remember correctly. Because coco is, in fact, slowly disintegrating as it sits there in our buckets.
If you checked your runoff ppms(if you irrigated until runoff that is) they would be very high. There is a lot of stored salts in your medium. So although your plants are being fed 400 ppms, they are feeding on a higher ppms than that due to the high EC of your medium.

You may consider scraping some medium out of a container, and soaking it in a body of 400 ppm food, and seeing what the EC/ppm level rises to. I bet it is a lot higher than 400 ppms.
Blumat?

This is true. But as I recall this only takes place after several successive runs.....like 3 or more, and personally I use fresh coco every time. Anyone else care to chime in on that.

Second part is in fact false......I use drip clean at the recommended dose. I have checked run off and done slurry test's and all. I swear I have done my research on this. Everything within the medium is within 50ppm, higher or lower, of what I am putting in, give or take, based on strain, saturation, and even time of day I think.

Blumats are an drip system based on gravity and each individual plants need for water. They essentially keep the medium at the exact moisture that you decide to set it at, hence no run off......ever again.

dankworth said:
For sure, true grit. I would have to check light values later in the day, but I would guess I am less than 5k footcandles or whatever(bright day outside was 10k on the dot) at the top of the canopy at the moment. Definitely not more light than they can process yet.
I keep thinking I am growing in coco, maybe I should reconsider that position lol.

last time I checked I had around 7k foot candles around most of the tops till I got to the edges of my room.

This is not the only way I have tested this. I have done things this light with run off as well, and had the same results.

and true....I like to use bio bizz bloom as a sub for boost but as I said can't add it to the rez so I mix a gallon and each plant gets a cup....just a lil bump

Venom818 · May 18, 2012

dankworth said:
That is what the deal is. I get 20% runoff every time I irrigate. It is recommended for coco. Coco, as it disintegrates, kicks down K and S, and collects up Ca and Mg if I remember correctly. Because coco is, in fact, slowly disintegrating as it sits there in our buckets.
If you checked your runoff ppms(if you irrigated until runoff that is) they would be very high. There is a lot of stored salts in your medium. So although your plants are being fed 400 ppms, they are feeding on a higher ppms than that due to the high EC of your medium.

You may consider scraping some medium out of a container, and soaking it in a body of 400 ppm food, and seeing what the EC/ppm level rises to. I bet it is a lot higher than 400 ppms.
Blumat?

From personal experience I can vouch for this especially if u not getting run off , dwd feed till run off and check the run off ppm and let us know what it is .im almost positive it's not 400

Darth Fader · May 19, 2012

dankworth said:
That is what the deal is. I get 20% runoff every time I irrigate. It is recommended for coco. Coco, as it disintegrates, kicks down K and S, and collects up Ca and Mg if I remember correctly. Because coco is, in fact, slowly disintegrating as it sits there in our buckets.
If you checked your runoff ppms(if you irrigated until runoff that is) they would be very high. There is a lot of stored salts in your medium. So although your plants are being fed 400 ppms, they are feeding on a higher ppms than that due to the high EC of your medium.

You may consider scraping some medium out of a container, and soaking it in a body of 400 ppm food, and seeing what the EC/ppm level rises to. I bet it is a lot higher than 400 ppms.
Blumat?

There is also an apples/oranges effect where different rooms at diff temps & RH levels will result in plants transpiring/drinking more which will call for more dilution - lower nute levels. IOW, plants in 2 diff environments may actually be consuming the same amount of nutes, but one will require more water. A lower ec level is needed here to avoid salt build up in the media.

dankworth · May 19, 2012

If slurry tests are showing good values, then your strategy must be working. I think there has to be something to this.
Perhaps it is simply a matter of tweaking the ratios to accommodate the no-runoff characteristics. Like how proportionally you feed so much Ca, that makes a lot of sense. How about Mg? Are you supplementing a disproportionate amount compared to the ppms one would normally find in a coco food? Have you played with different values a lot to see at what point deficiencies will arise?

I have seen where bottom-feeding coco plants like a slacker in trays worked out for me for a time, before deficiencies showed up. Tried to figure out what the performance variations meant in the big picture. They have not been irrigated to the point of runoff in a bit. I like to do this sort of thing to see where problems show up, and how to fix them, so I can see problems coming later and know the mechanisms of why, and the solutions.

This is all some very interesting food for thought.

dankworth · May 19, 2012

Darth Fader said:
There is also an apples/oranges effect where different rooms at diff temps & RH levels will result in plants transpiring/drinking more which will call for more dilution - lower nute levels. IOW, plants in 2 diff environments may actually be consuming the same amount of nutes, but one will require more water. A lower ec level is needed here to avoid salt build up in the media.

I have seen this phenomena in containers that are more exposed, so more evaporation took place. And in drier environments. Had to drop EC to compensate, because they went through more water but not more nutes.

Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

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