Seamaiden
Living dead girl
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Ok, at first I thought you were growing a Chem gal, and they just do that. Pluck and spritz with water is the ticket (and so, due to their budular cankle-y form, you've also got to watch for mold caused by the spritzing, can probably alleviate the issue and speed up evaporation by adding a bit of isopropyl to the mix. Will NOT hurt the trichs, etc).From what ive been told, the hermies probably came from hermie parent. Wont use bag seed any more. Thanks for your input @robomont :)
thankyou for that.i really appreciate the effort.it filled in some gaps for me.The whole scoop
Basically we can produce bad regular bred seeds just as we can bad feminized seed stock. It is all in the method used and the selection of parent plants.
When we breed for regular seeds with a male and a female, we need to select individuals that carry the traits we want to see passed on down the line in the cross. This includes selecting plants that do not hermie under normal grow conditions. These plants may not show hermie unless they see severe stress of some sort. If both the mother plant chosen and the father plant show no signs of carrying the hermie trait as a dominant gene, then they may be chosen to use for breeding.
The problem with regular m/f seed breeding is that many times the male of the cross will not be tested. It only get chosen because it may have a heavy funk, lots of trics on the stalks, or be more vigorous than it's siblings. However, we really don't know if it is acarrier of the hermie trait or not. We will need to actually pollinate something we know to be a hermie free (or true breeding) mother plant with the pollen of our untested male. Then grow them out, and see if there is hermie present in the cross. If not, then you can feel better about using him in your original cross.
This part is not done my the majority of hobby breeders out there.
They simply choose a male and let the pollen fly.
By using untested stock, we may or may not have created stock that wants to hermie easy.
Now, the exact same scenarios exist when breeding for feminized seeds. We must choose two parent plants that we know aren't heavy hermie plants, and in this case we are looking for two females.
Females, as we know, are much easier to discern their hermie holding traits. All we need to do is grow them out and give them a bit of stress to test their genes.
We don't need to go through the process of crossing them with other known stable strains to test there worth, we can simply flower them out and test from there.
When some folks talk about how much easier it is to pick parents for fem stock than for regular m/f bred stock, this is what they are talking about. With fem seeds we get to bypass the long drawn out testing of the male.
And since our parents are plants that don't want to hermie, or produce stamen and male pollen, we must use a severe stress to bring out the hermie. So we need to use a solution that causes the plant to hermie so we can get her pollen since she doesn't want to give it up naturally. STS is one of those solutions, and it basically presents silver ions to the plants pathways and blocks the reception of ethylene, which is essential to the production of the female flower. If the female is blocked, the male will take over, which is simply a survival function of the plant.
Some plants will not hermie, and they would be considered true females. Probably the most rare of finds. These plants, such as the actual Cheese cut are reported to not be able to reverse even with heavy stress. They simply don't have the intersex gene to be able to hermie. These could only be used in the female side of a F/F cross.
And the genetics involved is exactly the same as it is with the regular bred seeds. If we choose good parents, good progeny is the likely result.
Bad fems seeds would be those that had no testing done of the parents and produced hermie laden seeds. OR...the seeds provided came about from other neighboring plants going hermie and releasing pollen in the grow area.
In regular seed breeding we can choose poorly and come up with bad seeds. Same with feminized seed breeding. There is absolutely no difference in the two when it comes to how the genes work.
The only difference at all is that there will be no male chromosome in the seeds produced. Each and every other aspect of the resulting seeds come from the parents, and the parents were selected by the breeder. So, basically the breeder has control of if the seeds are good fem seeds or bad fem seeds.
There is lots of good info that is written up in proper studies. Start out by googling Mohan Ram. He is the pioneer of modern feminized seed breeding and his information is priceless.
Many thanks @Purpletrain :-) You've answered so many questions i've been wondering about there bro. Great read and very informative. Will defo check out Mohan Ram. Thanks again man :-)The whole scoop
Basically we can produce bad regular bred seeds just as we can bad feminized seed stock. It is all in the method used and the selection of parent plants.
When we breed for regular seeds with a male and a female, we need to select individuals that carry the traits we want to see passed on down the line in the cross. This includes selecting plants that do not hermie under normal grow conditions. These plants may not show hermie unless they see severe stress of some sort. If both the mother plant chosen and the father plant show no signs of carrying the hermie trait as a dominant gene, then they may be chosen to use for breeding.
The problem with regular m/f seed breeding is that many times the male of the cross will not be tested. It only get chosen because it may have a heavy funk, lots of trics on the stalks, or be more vigorous than it's siblings. However, we really don't know if it is acarrier of the hermie trait or not. We will need to actually pollinate something we know to be a hermie free (or true breeding) mother plant with the pollen of our untested male. Then grow them out, and see if there is hermie present in the cross. If not, then you can feel better about using him in your original cross.
This part is not done my the majority of hobby breeders out there.
They simply choose a male and let the pollen fly.
By using untested stock, we may or may not have created stock that wants to hermie easy.
Now, the exact same scenarios exist when breeding for feminized seeds. We must choose two parent plants that we know aren't heavy hermie plants, and in this case we are looking for two females.
Females, as we know, are much easier to discern their hermie holding traits. All we need to do is grow them out and give them a bit of stress to test their genes.
We don't need to go through the process of crossing them with other known stable strains to test there worth, we can simply flower them out and test from there.
When some folks talk about how much easier it is to pick parents for fem stock than for regular m/f bred stock, this is what they are talking about. With fem seeds we get to bypass the long drawn out testing of the male.
And since our parents are plants that don't want to hermie, or produce stamen and male pollen, we must use a severe stress to bring out the hermie. So we need to use a solution that causes the plant to hermie so we can get her pollen since she doesn't want to give it up naturally. STS is one of those solutions, and it basically presents silver ions to the plants pathways and blocks the reception of ethylene, which is essential to the production of the female flower. If the female is blocked, the male will take over, which is simply a survival function of the plant.
Some plants will not hermie, and they would be considered true females. Probably the most rare of finds. These plants, such as the actual Cheese cut are reported to not be able to reverse even with heavy stress. They simply don't have the intersex gene to be able to hermie. These could only be used in the female side of a F/F cross.
And the genetics involved is exactly the same as it is with the regular bred seeds. If we choose good parents, good progeny is the likely result.
Bad fems seeds would be those that had no testing done of the parents and produced hermie laden seeds. OR...the seeds provided came about from other neighboring plants going hermie and releasing pollen in the grow area.
In regular seed breeding we can choose poorly and come up with bad seeds. Same with feminized seed breeding. There is absolutely no difference in the two when it comes to how the genes work.
The only difference at all is that there will be no male chromosome in the seeds produced. Each and every other aspect of the resulting seeds come from the parents, and the parents were selected by the breeder. So, basically the breeder has control of if the seeds are good fem seeds or bad fem seeds.
There is lots of good info that is written up in proper studies. Start out by googling Mohan Ram. He is the pioneer of modern feminized seed breeding and his information is priceless.
Hi Seamaiden :-) Ive been picking out the nannas and they seem to have stopped growing. The plant affected has grown some seed pods but the others have'nt so far as i can see. What is budular cankle-y form ? Never heard of that. When you say pluck and spritz, do you mean chop them and spray. Sorry if i seem a bit dumb lol.Ok, at first I thought you were growing a Chem gal, and they just do that. Pluck and spritz with water is the ticket (and so, due to their budular cankle-y form, you've also got to watch for mold caused by the spritzing, can probably alleviate the issue and speed up evaporation by adding a bit of isopropyl to the mix. Will NOT hurt the trichs, etc).
But! Since you say you're growing bagseed, tis time for the choppy chop and spritz, spritz, spritz!
Thick-ass buds.What is budular cankle-y form
Thanks @Seamaiden ive sprayed the air lightly to bring pollen down. 3 plants have been pollenated but 2 seem not to have been. Ive harvested the othere plant i showed you a bud of last week. It stopped growing hairs and got quite dense and sticky :) Just looked to me like it was ready. (No seeds :-) )The others arent producing any more nannas so just going to grow them out now. They are still shooting out white hairs and are still going for it, all be it with seeds lol. "Big Ass Buds" ? Now your talking my language ha ha :)Yes, sprayer or spray bottle set to mist.
I once tried to make beans on a very misty, foggy morning. I got something like 6 seeds. Learned that lesson!
Thick-ass buds.[/
well, old thread, I know. But I'm currently in hell thanks to herm seeds. I had a Kalshnikov Seeds Purple Russian Express seed out my entire tent. I have great germination on the seeds. BUT.... It was a genetic herm. That trait carried on to every single strain it touched. So I got nothing but seedy bullshit from the run of those beans. It ruined GHSC white widow, HSO purple trainwreck, and Rare Dankness Ghost Train haze genetics in one fell swoop. So yeah, herms can germ, but beware if it's part of the plant's genetics and not stress induced.Are nanners fertile ??? curious personally i cannot see nanners making seeds cause they showed up to late for the party but they make a mess out of everything ..
Just wondering if anyone actually got seeds from it and seeds germinated ??
well, old thread, I know. But I'm currently in hell thanks to herm seeds. I had a Kalshnikov Seeds Purple Russian Express seed out my entire tent. I have great germination on the seeds. BUT.... It was a genetic herm. That trait carried on to every single strain it touched. So I got nothing but seedy bullshit from the run of those beans. It ruined GHSC white widow, HSO purple trainwreck, and Rare Dankness Ghost Train haze genetics in one fell swoop. So yeah, herms can germ, but beware if it's part of the plant's genetics and not stress induced.
I appreciate all the info. another factor in my case is that the nanners are only showing up on the lower part of the plants. It seems like it only starts 6 or 7 nodes from the apical flower. Is that normal as well?Also many times a if a plant reverses say week 5 if we remove the stress that caused it and pick off the existing nanners no more will appear.
I have seen this many times with picky diesel/ thai hybrids.
I appreciate all the info. another factor in my case is that the nanners are only showing up on the lower part of the plants. It seems like it only starts 6 or 7 nodes from the apical flower. Is that normal as well?
my mind kinda thought of something similar...just wanting to keep a male around just long enough to where it's about to flower....then kill it....never tried it under a controlled condition ...I'll be spending a little time reading here at some point...just to see what people know...Smiles to someone thinking outside the boxSeems everyone goes nuts when a plant hermies. I know that it is just nature throwing in a last ditch effort to get those plants pollinated. Seems reasonable and I’ve seen it happen on several other types of plants too – most squashes and melons will do the same if a male isn’t around to pollinate the girls.
So I was thinking that it’s definitely a hormone thing. And everyone knows a pregnant girl doesn’t ovulate, right? Because she’s already pregnant. I’m talking usual stuff here, not freak of nature stuff. And yes, I know it’s not the same from people to plants – just using it as an analogy.
I began pollinating all my girls, yep, every single one even if I don’t want those seeds. And it doesn’t matter who’s pollen I use if I don’t want the seeds (I usually keep them anyway, or eat them). All I need to do is make sure 1 small, lower branch is pollinated and making seeds. I try to do this early in the flower phase, as soon as it’s possible.
It doesn’t seem to make much difference for the rest of the plant, it flowers like mad either way.
What I’ve found is that I’ve never seen a “pregnant” girl throw out those male flowers. No matter what strain I grow, even if I stress the hell out of them (I’m tough on my girls) and still never a male flower. I’ve even grown strains very well known to hermie and they didn’t.
I’m positive there’s a correlation here. Some hormone in the plant during seed production that keeps it from going hermie.
Anyway, I sure would love to know if anyone else has found this to be true also. Or is there anyone that has a strain with especially nasty hermie traits willing to try it?
Now, my theory is that it will stop herming in “normal” plants. I realize there are some strains with so much herm traits in-bred into them it’s become a dominant trait – most likely due to all the femming being done – not sure what it would do for them.
Hoping some more data will help pin down my theory.
Old post but still very interesting! i have a perfect plant that im genetically expecting to herm so ill try this with some xy pollen in a couple weeks and well see what happens.Seems everyone goes nuts when a plant hermies. I know that it is just nature throwing in a last ditch effort to get those plants pollinated. Seems reasonable and I’ve seen it happen on several other types of plants too – most squashes and melons will do the same if a male isn’t around to pollinate the girls.
So I was thinking that it’s definitely a hormone thing. And everyone knows a pregnant girl doesn’t ovulate, right? Because she’s already pregnant. I’m talking usual stuff here, not freak of nature stuff. And yes, I know it’s not the same from people to plants – just using it as an analogy.
I began pollinating all my girls, yep, every single one even if I don’t want those seeds. And it doesn’t matter who’s pollen I use if I don’t want the seeds (I usually keep them anyway, or eat them). All I need to do is make sure 1 small, lower branch is pollinated and making seeds. I try to do this early in the flower phase, as soon as it’s possible.
It doesn’t seem to make much difference for the rest of the plant, it flowers like mad either way.
What I’ve found is that I’ve never seen a “pregnant” girl throw out those male flowers. No matter what strain I grow, even if I stress the hell out of them (I’m tough on my girls) and still never a male flower. I’ve even grown strains very well known to hermie and they didn’t.
I’m positive there’s a correlation here. Some hormone in the plant during seed production that keeps it from going hermie.
Anyway, I sure would love to know if anyone else has found this to be true also. Or is there anyone that has a strain with especially nasty hermie traits willing to try it?
Now, my theory is that it will stop herming in “normal” plants. I realize there are some strains with so much herm traits in-bred into them it’s become a dominant trait – most likely due to all the femming being done – not sure what it would do for them.
Hoping some more data will help pin down my theory.
Actually water kills pollen almost instantly, the fertiization is because that pollen grain that did the deed did not get wet.I am starting to question misting plants to avoid politicization, Water does not kill pollen if that was the case i am sure MJ or many other wind pollinating plants would be extinct ..
Now i have not tried it my self
I have google this stuff and it appears in some cases plants can be pollentated by the means of water / rain pollen in the air contacted by rain then onto plant possibly ???
Insects, wind rain could very well be Carriors of pollen.
from some of my reading many types vines and orchards , kiwi fruit
pollen is mixed with water but appears it needs to be used with in a hr no i am wondering Rain water ??? instead of RO or tap water might be choice fresh rain water
I would and might try it some time using different temps of rain water maybe colder rain might do something again just guessing
Obviously some breeders have tried it with water and hobby growers and failed but again many variables sure dry is ideal
some day :)
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