nazarbattu
- 458
- 93
Lol, like I said...+1 for organ1cs
Tenderloin....;^} more like fajitas
Tenderloin....;^} more like fajitas
shemshemet
- 623
- 143
Who says we need competition to make improvements? Team work is also a great tool in invention and innovation...
shemshemet
- 623
- 143
I argue that the "organic" food the tests are using is not necessarily the "right" organic.
As in, they may comply with the standard, but the practices beings used might not utilize all that organics has to offer.
No, many times eating fruits I find the small ones and bigs ones taste different. Which means their composition is different in terms of relative chemical make-up. This is mostly due to secondary plant metabolites. I believe that you can grow labeled organic, but not have a diverse microbial population. Some organic growers grow for the label, not the product.
The difference in these secondary plant metabolites may be huge in our long term diets. We don't know. Because food science is EXTREMELY difficult to study. It is difficult to secure constants in studies that deal with long-term diet. People don't tend to stick with stern eating regiments. And that is just one variable in the growing issue.
T
Taylor Smith
- 16
- 3
People need to accept that man is an instrument of nature and everything we create is ultimately natural..
EONS AGO... in a land that was everywhere there was a pesky microbe called cyanobacterium like man.. cyanobacterium had a Nack for fixing things, it could fix carbon, Nitrogen and even oxygen producing it in its elemental form. This oxygen had never previously existed on earth in this form and like mans by-products it caused untold destruction infact it caused 2 of the biggest extinction events that this world as ever one when nearly all the aerobic microbes died and another when the methane was oxidized and the world froze over... completely.
BUT just ask yourselves where would we be without oxygen what has this horrendous by-product ultimately led to.
Nature's greatest enemy is entropy. One tries to tear the universe apart making it go from order to disorder and the other tries to find order out of the disorder putting the pieces back together so that from the perspective of natures children the universe has gone from dis-order to order.. But this is a constant battle the universe will never stay the same and nature must constantly adapt and find new ways to make big changes faster and faster. like Cyanobacterium was now MAN is it's latest weapon and ultimately must destroy the world so that it can become something new
the world changes new things must always come into existence.
EONS AGO... in a land that was everywhere there was a pesky microbe called cyanobacterium like man.. cyanobacterium had a Nack for fixing things, it could fix carbon, Nitrogen and even oxygen producing it in its elemental form. This oxygen had never previously existed on earth in this form and like mans by-products it caused untold destruction infact it caused 2 of the biggest extinction events that this world as ever one when nearly all the aerobic microbes died and another when the methane was oxidized and the world froze over... completely.
BUT just ask yourselves where would we be without oxygen what has this horrendous by-product ultimately led to.
Nature's greatest enemy is entropy. One tries to tear the universe apart making it go from order to disorder and the other tries to find order out of the disorder putting the pieces back together so that from the perspective of natures children the universe has gone from dis-order to order.. But this is a constant battle the universe will never stay the same and nature must constantly adapt and find new ways to make big changes faster and faster. like Cyanobacterium was now MAN is it's latest weapon and ultimately must destroy the world so that it can become something new
the world changes new things must always come into existence.
nazarbattu
- 458
- 93
Nothing is new, not even the ego pouring from you...mans ambition did not create the rain forest, man ruins it, man did not create the atmosphere, man ruins it, man did not create photosynthesis, man abuses it, man did not even create global warming but man acuses it...nothing is new, not even synthetics, not even a mad scientist as driven as you...the word natural has been highjacked, watered down, and drug down, you say man's natural and anything from man is natural, like the black plague, atomic bomb, and the industrial age lol, NO senor. Nothing is new, not man's ambition nor his "new tings" so stop claiming ownership over what mother nature brings, mother nature is supernatural like the global warming that will soon rid itself of its pest...ya'll stick to synths till you die, but us, we use mother nature until she needs to rest...
NightsWatch
- 428
- 93
^^ You sound like a preacher sending Q's every so often and tryin to relay a message that organic is much better then Synthetic.
But fail to understand the chemical process that even occurs in natural soils , vs man made organic soils
TBH to think your not polluting your organic grow in some way . or corss contaminating your soil ?
You actually think anything is safe when you read it online.
That you know add 3 parts Vinegar to 2 parts carbonated water add 2 table spoons of salt and to finish it add a cup of sugar for fermentating non fucking sense you know home made bombs
People tend to forget how things were processed by man and not mother nature
Which is safer ?? well that is still up in the air we already know synthetic will grow a plant twice as fast and bear more fruit . that is a given.
disease ?? shit we can all agree 1 - 2 applications pending on strength . will in fact get rid of your issue chemically wise >>
Organically ?? 10 - 20 applications and hope it got rid of the problem ?
Seriously don't fall into the left wing vs right wing and what the world is doing now separating us
Grow which ever way you can be happy and just let things go
Growing either way has its challenges and down falls
But people should realize really there is not one better way you get poisoned just as fast eatting chemically grown fruits n veggies as you would grown organically
Don't ever kid your self
But fail to understand the chemical process that even occurs in natural soils , vs man made organic soils
TBH to think your not polluting your organic grow in some way . or corss contaminating your soil ?
You actually think anything is safe when you read it online.
That you know add 3 parts Vinegar to 2 parts carbonated water add 2 table spoons of salt and to finish it add a cup of sugar for fermentating non fucking sense you know home made bombs
People tend to forget how things were processed by man and not mother nature
Which is safer ?? well that is still up in the air we already know synthetic will grow a plant twice as fast and bear more fruit . that is a given.
disease ?? shit we can all agree 1 - 2 applications pending on strength . will in fact get rid of your issue chemically wise >>
Organically ?? 10 - 20 applications and hope it got rid of the problem ?
Seriously don't fall into the left wing vs right wing and what the world is doing now separating us
Grow which ever way you can be happy and just let things go
Growing either way has its challenges and down falls
But people should realize really there is not one better way you get poisoned just as fast eatting chemically grown fruits n veggies as you would grown organically
Don't ever kid your self
NightsWatch
- 428
- 93
Its always one hugger after another hey guess what science figured out that honey and cinamin is good in many ways for you
So you get some clown online coming up with some recipe and what is even funnier just make sure you put PHD in front of it as long as your not selling anything or treating anyone what does PHD mean
officer its my online handle my phd Stands for perfectly healthy dude man lol
Half the shit recipes online have never been tested
so remember 2 teaspoons of honey in 1 cup of warm water add 1 teaspoon of cinnamon if its good for me it must be for plants to
And on closing note Rattle snake venom is natural it will kill you faster then drinking same amount of gas mg per mg
Shit i shouldn't say gas that is natural to or came from carbon based
How about round up instead that sounds better . right glysophate i mean that is what everyone is always crying about these days over Monsanto ..
Roundup is not the same as Glyphosate, but contains it. Pre-mix bottles of Roundup have like 2% or 4% Glyphosate. The concentrate bottles used to be something near 18% back in the 1980s. And today, maybe near 41%: close to half.
That means someone would need to drink nearly 1.5 cups to 3 cups of nasty bitter Roundup herbicide to ingest the theoretical lethal dose. how much rattle snake venom to be lethal
Because we don't need to go overboard about toxicity issues. Glyphosate has some degree of toxicity. As does alchohol, table salt, carbon dioxide and even water. You have heard about people dying from drinking gallons of water haven't you?. We just need to state the facts and pick points of reason that will stick.
Even with points of reason that stick, think about them. Take worms for example. What if Glyphosate really does reduce populations of worms? How would that compare to you taking a rototiller through your garden and crushing worms by the hundreds? Does this comparison help sway you one way or the other?
people might think WTF SNAKE Yeah in reality its the same thing chemicial s you rate as poisons
venom's are like organic pesticides suppose to be non toxic :) but how would you really know believing someone else specially on line
So you get some clown online coming up with some recipe and what is even funnier just make sure you put PHD in front of it as long as your not selling anything or treating anyone what does PHD mean
officer its my online handle my phd Stands for perfectly healthy dude man lol
Half the shit recipes online have never been tested
so remember 2 teaspoons of honey in 1 cup of warm water add 1 teaspoon of cinnamon if its good for me it must be for plants to
And on closing note Rattle snake venom is natural it will kill you faster then drinking same amount of gas mg per mg
Shit i shouldn't say gas that is natural to or came from carbon based
How about round up instead that sounds better . right glysophate i mean that is what everyone is always crying about these days over Monsanto ..
Roundup is not the same as Glyphosate, but contains it. Pre-mix bottles of Roundup have like 2% or 4% Glyphosate. The concentrate bottles used to be something near 18% back in the 1980s. And today, maybe near 41%: close to half.
That means someone would need to drink nearly 1.5 cups to 3 cups of nasty bitter Roundup herbicide to ingest the theoretical lethal dose. how much rattle snake venom to be lethal
Because we don't need to go overboard about toxicity issues. Glyphosate has some degree of toxicity. As does alchohol, table salt, carbon dioxide and even water. You have heard about people dying from drinking gallons of water haven't you?. We just need to state the facts and pick points of reason that will stick.
Even with points of reason that stick, think about them. Take worms for example. What if Glyphosate really does reduce populations of worms? How would that compare to you taking a rototiller through your garden and crushing worms by the hundreds? Does this comparison help sway you one way or the other?
people might think WTF SNAKE Yeah in reality its the same thing chemicial s you rate as poisons
venom's are like organic pesticides suppose to be non toxic :) but how would you really know believing someone else specially on line
Last edited:
nazarbattu
- 458
- 93
You go ahead and take your "bigger" synthetics and it's baggage and I will gladly take my smaller organics and consequences...alchemy is man's most blissful ambitious ignorance, nothing is new, not even your chemicals, that is why chemical growing is still obsolete, it's planned obsolescence. You will never grow as good as mother nature PERIOD, if you think so, grow with out any organic inputs or better yet go back to smoking your chemicals and leave the plants to us huggers...
F
FarmerX
- 66
- 33
Hahaha, we can never have a nice conversation about organics and synthetics.
This thread had everything, great articles, debates, arguments and even some poetry.
I don't argue about which is better, i do consider man to be something of a virus or parasite, but Mother Nature made us too.
No one knows the real answer, and it will continue to be exploited, explored and debated long past our time. Just as new generations frown on the old for their ways, we too will be followed by more conscious and critical generations who have exponentially greater knowledge and access to technology than we ever will now.
One of my favorite quotes/sayings is: "An arguement is about egos and proving WHO is right, a debate is about progress and what IS right."
Do the best that you can given the circumstances at hand. If you have land, you have a responsibility to improve your soils for the generations to come, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have an aquaponics or hydroponic indoor garden too.
We are faced with many obstacles. To name a few; overpopulation, causing agricultural land loss due to commercial and residential expansions, greater resource demands.
All of this points towards an emphasis on greenhouse/indoor/urban hydroponic and aquaponic farming to maximize output of food and increase resource and space efficiency.
I think we have already begun to make a shift, consciousness is in the airs. I like to imagine future generations will have emphasis on renewable and localized resources. Homes will have solar panels, solar energy storage batteries, small aquaponics/hydroponics gardens. Waste companies that pick up your solid waste and recyclables, will begin picking up liquid waste and recyclables also. The communities waste water can be collected, managed and returned to a reusable state, and then used in state operated recirculating systems.
In terms of commercial production and agriculture today, right now right now; marry the two! Some hydroponic mediums are organic and are able to provide sufficient environment for microbiology and all of the goodness that comes along-they can be composted too! Use Biological and Cultural Pest Prevention techniques; Manipulate your environment and introduce beneficial bugs like we do microbes. Some of the best nutrient lines in the world combine synthetic nutrients with various organic applications(Auxins, Earth Worm casting Extraction, Nettle, Yucca, Comfrey, "Ancient dessert plants," and other miscellaneous bio-teas, even basic molasses/sugarcane, etc.
I've produced commercially using both methods. In my opinion if you plan to vegetate your plants for more than 2-4 weeks in containers then just stick to hydro. The variance in growth rate accomplished in the vegetative stage across the two methods becomes exponentially greater as time passes, synthetic nutrients are more abundant and readily available to the plant-time is money in any industry. If you do not require lengthy vegetative cycles for your strains to perform or hou have a have a niche market, organics is competitive enough in yield and has a higher market value.
Cheers,
X
This thread had everything, great articles, debates, arguments and even some poetry.
I don't argue about which is better, i do consider man to be something of a virus or parasite, but Mother Nature made us too.
No one knows the real answer, and it will continue to be exploited, explored and debated long past our time. Just as new generations frown on the old for their ways, we too will be followed by more conscious and critical generations who have exponentially greater knowledge and access to technology than we ever will now.
One of my favorite quotes/sayings is: "An arguement is about egos and proving WHO is right, a debate is about progress and what IS right."
Do the best that you can given the circumstances at hand. If you have land, you have a responsibility to improve your soils for the generations to come, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have an aquaponics or hydroponic indoor garden too.
We are faced with many obstacles. To name a few; overpopulation, causing agricultural land loss due to commercial and residential expansions, greater resource demands.
All of this points towards an emphasis on greenhouse/indoor/urban hydroponic and aquaponic farming to maximize output of food and increase resource and space efficiency.
I think we have already begun to make a shift, consciousness is in the airs. I like to imagine future generations will have emphasis on renewable and localized resources. Homes will have solar panels, solar energy storage batteries, small aquaponics/hydroponics gardens. Waste companies that pick up your solid waste and recyclables, will begin picking up liquid waste and recyclables also. The communities waste water can be collected, managed and returned to a reusable state, and then used in state operated recirculating systems.
In terms of commercial production and agriculture today, right now right now; marry the two! Some hydroponic mediums are organic and are able to provide sufficient environment for microbiology and all of the goodness that comes along-they can be composted too! Use Biological and Cultural Pest Prevention techniques; Manipulate your environment and introduce beneficial bugs like we do microbes. Some of the best nutrient lines in the world combine synthetic nutrients with various organic applications(Auxins, Earth Worm casting Extraction, Nettle, Yucca, Comfrey, "Ancient dessert plants," and other miscellaneous bio-teas, even basic molasses/sugarcane, etc.
I've produced commercially using both methods. In my opinion if you plan to vegetate your plants for more than 2-4 weeks in containers then just stick to hydro. The variance in growth rate accomplished in the vegetative stage across the two methods becomes exponentially greater as time passes, synthetic nutrients are more abundant and readily available to the plant-time is money in any industry. If you do not require lengthy vegetative cycles for your strains to perform or hou have a have a niche market, organics is competitive enough in yield and has a higher market value.
Cheers,
X
StonedBlue
Disabled Vet
Supporter
- 270
- 43
I have been thinking about going organic, but really like the ease of usings synthetics. My question is about so called organic ferts sold by companies like GH. Is their organic line really organic? In dtw coco alot of the organic methods dont seem to be practical.
Natural
- 2,536
- 263
V+B by Hydroponic Research is a great line of nutes. I'd call it medi grade salts. GH salt line is barely food grade. The bottled General Organics is a good line, but is loaded with sugars and ime tends to hang in the medium and clog up roots over time. You need to use lots of AACT with it to convert the raw organics in it. I might say Age Old and Earth Juice or even Roots Organic might edge that line out by a little. If going organic..best to cook up your own super soil imho. No nutrient line is free from drawbacks..sustainability..practices..but some are better than others.
Seamaiden
Living dead girl
- 23,596
- 638
No, if they are not certified organic, they cannot legally make that claim. Look for the label, or whether or not they're on the OMRI listing.
T
Taylor Smith
- 16
- 3
I'm pretty sure the plague was natural. I'm an organic grower myself and I believe in much of the science of organics but not so much the philoshophy. I'm not sure if nazarbattu got the point of what I said at all cuz I agree with a lot of what he said. I like being controversial and getting people think in new ways. Of course people have done tremendous harm to this planet but I believe we will eventually find a balance even if it means nearly getting wiped out. This is nature you can live with it, or live like it. there are multiple solutions and approaches to the environment and I don't think it should be the same for everyone. look what happened when we tried to force the rest of the world to live like us. Diversity is essential I don't think we need to be good for the earth as long as we are not harming it, perhaps some people will live completely independent of nature in there own closed loop system (like nature) this could be with machines and energy or biology. and maybe some people in rural areas it may be more ideal to adopt a permaculture kind of attitude. where you are constantly interacting with nature in a mutually beneficial way. Everything on this planet exist on a spectrum it is not black and white including what is natural or unnatural. I think it would be easier to just call everything natural and instead judge based on its sustainability and environmental impacts.
Organica
- 180
- 43
Shit got hot in here lol
I don't know anything about synthetic vs organic on any professional level with lab testing and what not, but I know my plants were way more happy on organics and I've heard people say there yield was shit on organics mine were definitely not they improved actually and I was able to wipe out pm with foilar feeding and a couple other natural alternatives . Cheaper better product, and more of it was a no brained switch for me.
I don't know anything about synthetic vs organic on any professional level with lab testing and what not, but I know my plants were way more happy on organics and I've heard people say there yield was shit on organics mine were definitely not they improved actually and I was able to wipe out pm with foilar feeding and a couple other natural alternatives . Cheaper better product, and more of it was a no brained switch for me.
mojavegreen
- 707
- 243
I love my mediumless hydro!
mojavegreen
- 707
- 243
Well since the feds control the label "organic", ???
Wisher619
- 6,648
- 313
a lot of company's products are formulated with 100% organic inputs
some of the problems are some of the inputs are processed in a manner in which is not considered or clasified organic
so things such as Botanicare pure blend tea is 100% organic but the way the humic is processed is not organic
then they can not label as organic
some of the problems are some of the inputs are processed in a manner in which is not considered or clasified organic
so things such as Botanicare pure blend tea is 100% organic but the way the humic is processed is not organic
then they can not label as organic
Psychonaut47
- 444
- 143
leonardite=no me gusta
Psychonaut47
- 444
- 143
Maybe a Biosynthetic compromise....Roots Organics Soul Synthetics meets Aptus, or something but the key in my opinion is organic soil based medium partnered with Bio-Synthetic foliar feed...for quality and straight synthetic for quantity, any debate beyond that is of a philosophical nature...Which I am also a fan, ecological systems theory for instance allways has an influence. No nutrient can replace air, water and sunlight....
Wisher619
- 6,648
- 313
so what is wrong with leonardite?
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