Wisher619
- 6,648
- 313
here is something that is way more troubling about the Cuyama Valley carrot industry then pumping water.....which infact is being pumped in a much more alarming rate in that area by way of Fracking..
DrFever
- 470
- 93
Sea maiden of course its a huge industry so is religion if you like to compare them value of the Vatican ???? anything company will take advantage of stupid people
Ok i am not going to get into it to the op Chemical fed plants will destroy organics grown any day of the week that is a fact in growth health , yield you really cannot compare the 2 really organic vs DWC lol never going to happen feeding a plant something that is readily available to the plant compared to something that needs to be broken down for plant to use
pretty simple really lets see some pictures of grown organic indoor plants 5 weeks veg here some day 27 from clone chem fed and day 35 could some die hard organic growers be so kind to post there 25 - 35 day from clone grow
PS 14 - 18 oz dry per plant indoor
Last edited:
DrFever
- 470
- 93
oh shit one one picture 5 weeks vegged and Day 9 flower from a 3" clone table set @ 5 feet height 14 - 18 oz dry pure power plant
DrFever
- 470
- 93
Seamaiden this post is for you where ever there is money to be made corruption follows
Expected to reach an estimated $35 billion in profits this year, the organic market has become attractive to food companies on all sides of the spectrum, opening up the door for potential abuses.
Under-the-table financial contributions to politicians in Washington have allowed Big Food companies to hijack the organic industry by selling products blatantly in violation of strict organic standards set by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA).
The USDA fails to prosecute violators due to giant corporations' lobbyists pressuring the agency to "favor their preferred industrial model of food production," according to Mark Kastel, the Senior Farm Policy Analyst at The Cornucopia Institute.
Considered one of the "largest fraud investigations," the Wisconsin-based farm policy research group has worked diligently to uncover persistent violations, filing formal legal complaints against livestock operations producing milk, meat and eggs, accusing them of fraudulently marketing such products as organic.
Big Food selling organic products derived from animals kept in confinement, blatantly violating USDA organic standards
Federally mandated organic standards state that living conditions for livestock must "accommodate the health and natural behavior of... animals," meaning that chickens and cows absolutely must have year-round access to green pastures for grazing, shade, sunlight and fresh water and live unconfined.
Widely distributed brands like Horizon (owned by Dean Foods), have been caught violating these standards, prohibiting "legitimate grazing" and restricting animals' access to the outdoors.
Horizon (White Wave), the largest selling organic milk brand, was purchased in 2004 by Dean Foods, a giant agribusiness raking in an estimated $11 billion in sales. Dean Foods also happens to be the biggest conventional dairy marketer in the country. The corporate-owned Idaho farm that supplies milk for the Horizon label was originally a conventional factory-dairy that was converted into an organic production; however, cows were given no access to pastures for grazing as legally mandated.
A complaint filed by Cornucopia was closed without a USDA regulator ever visiting the dairy facility. However, the group's efforts didn't stop there. After years of inaction by the USDA, Cornucopia contracted aerial photography in nine states, from West Texas to New York and Maryland, to investigate some questionable practices by "organic" branded companies.
Their suspicions were confirmed upon discovering "a systemic pattern of corporate agribusiness interests operating industrial-scale confinement livestock facilities providing no legitimate grazing, or even access to the outdoors, as required by federal organic regulations," reports Corncucopia.org.
"The federal organic regulations make it very clear that all organic livestock must have access to the outdoors and that ruminants, like dairy cows, must have access to pasture," said Kastel. "The vast majority of these massive, industrial-scale facilities, some managing 10,000-20,000 head of cattle, and upwards of 1 million laying hens, had 100% of their animals confined in giant buildings or feedlots."
Ariel photos of several livestock operations reveal plenty of land for grazing; however, the animals are nowhere to be found, as they're all being confined indoors.
Big Food tricks and misleads consumers with their faux "organic" products
"Shoppers, who passionately support the ideals and values represented by the organic label, understandably feel betrayed when they see photos of these massive CAFOs (concentrated animal feeding operations) masquerading as organic," explains Kastel.
Luckily, thanks to diligent research, Cornucopia has created "organic brand scorecards," allowing consumers to choose from the many organic brands that "truly deliver on the promise of better environmental stewardship, humane animal husbandry, and economic justice for the families who produce organic food."
"Many of our dairy farmer-members have animals, they truly care for, that have names, not numbers," said Kastel.
The battle to force the USDA to hold factory farms masquerading as "organic" accountable has had its ups and downs over the years. One of their successes includes the decertification of the Horizon label, and the USDA placing sanctions against Aurora Dairy, a private-label organic milk producer for stores like Walmart, Target and Costco.
Both White Wave and Aurora are still being investigated for improprieties.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/048024_organic_industry_factory_farms_food_fraud.html#ixzz3h91hg45q
Expected to reach an estimated $35 billion in profits this year, the organic market has become attractive to food companies on all sides of the spectrum, opening up the door for potential abuses.
Under-the-table financial contributions to politicians in Washington have allowed Big Food companies to hijack the organic industry by selling products blatantly in violation of strict organic standards set by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA).
The USDA fails to prosecute violators due to giant corporations' lobbyists pressuring the agency to "favor their preferred industrial model of food production," according to Mark Kastel, the Senior Farm Policy Analyst at The Cornucopia Institute.
Considered one of the "largest fraud investigations," the Wisconsin-based farm policy research group has worked diligently to uncover persistent violations, filing formal legal complaints against livestock operations producing milk, meat and eggs, accusing them of fraudulently marketing such products as organic.
Big Food selling organic products derived from animals kept in confinement, blatantly violating USDA organic standards
Federally mandated organic standards state that living conditions for livestock must "accommodate the health and natural behavior of... animals," meaning that chickens and cows absolutely must have year-round access to green pastures for grazing, shade, sunlight and fresh water and live unconfined.
Widely distributed brands like Horizon (owned by Dean Foods), have been caught violating these standards, prohibiting "legitimate grazing" and restricting animals' access to the outdoors.
Horizon (White Wave), the largest selling organic milk brand, was purchased in 2004 by Dean Foods, a giant agribusiness raking in an estimated $11 billion in sales. Dean Foods also happens to be the biggest conventional dairy marketer in the country. The corporate-owned Idaho farm that supplies milk for the Horizon label was originally a conventional factory-dairy that was converted into an organic production; however, cows were given no access to pastures for grazing as legally mandated.
A complaint filed by Cornucopia was closed without a USDA regulator ever visiting the dairy facility. However, the group's efforts didn't stop there. After years of inaction by the USDA, Cornucopia contracted aerial photography in nine states, from West Texas to New York and Maryland, to investigate some questionable practices by "organic" branded companies.
Their suspicions were confirmed upon discovering "a systemic pattern of corporate agribusiness interests operating industrial-scale confinement livestock facilities providing no legitimate grazing, or even access to the outdoors, as required by federal organic regulations," reports Corncucopia.org.
"The federal organic regulations make it very clear that all organic livestock must have access to the outdoors and that ruminants, like dairy cows, must have access to pasture," said Kastel. "The vast majority of these massive, industrial-scale facilities, some managing 10,000-20,000 head of cattle, and upwards of 1 million laying hens, had 100% of their animals confined in giant buildings or feedlots."
Ariel photos of several livestock operations reveal plenty of land for grazing; however, the animals are nowhere to be found, as they're all being confined indoors.
Big Food tricks and misleads consumers with their faux "organic" products
"Shoppers, who passionately support the ideals and values represented by the organic label, understandably feel betrayed when they see photos of these massive CAFOs (concentrated animal feeding operations) masquerading as organic," explains Kastel.
Luckily, thanks to diligent research, Cornucopia has created "organic brand scorecards," allowing consumers to choose from the many organic brands that "truly deliver on the promise of better environmental stewardship, humane animal husbandry, and economic justice for the families who produce organic food."
"Many of our dairy farmer-members have animals, they truly care for, that have names, not numbers," said Kastel.
The battle to force the USDA to hold factory farms masquerading as "organic" accountable has had its ups and downs over the years. One of their successes includes the decertification of the Horizon label, and the USDA placing sanctions against Aurora Dairy, a private-label organic milk producer for stores like Walmart, Target and Costco.
Both White Wave and Aurora are still being investigated for improprieties.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/048024_organic_industry_factory_farms_food_fraud.html#ixzz3h91hg45q
sixstring
- 7,079
- 313
although your pics are nice and most your info is good,i will have to disagree on your thoughts that organic plants cant yield like chems lol.you need to consider that @waayne is probably THE best grower on this site and his plants always look nice and plump ;) i think the whole yield debate is bunk because most novice growers will take forever trying to dial in a 100% organic grow having to learn how to mix elements and cook thier soils ect and most times will just give up and go back to chems.where as chems come with fancy charts and theres always a ton of help on the net using a specific soil and nute company.
i would go as far as saying waaynes plants would yield better than prolly 50% or more of the hydro growers on this site lol.and i would def bet his product would smoke better as well
Bulldog11
- 2,709
- 263
@Herb Forester woops.... Advancing Eco-Agriculture with John Kempf. Thanks for the correction. Yes your correct, they have non organic products. They are also turning chem farms into organic farms with just the organic products. However that is a great point, thanks for the catch.
Another great point in how AEA uses their non organic fertilizer with biology in mind. So even chem's can be good for the soil with the proper products.
Another great point in how AEA uses their non organic fertilizer with biology in mind. So even chem's can be good for the soil with the proper products.
Bulldog11
- 2,709
- 263
@DrFever
Your plants are nice and all, but my plants yield 10+ lbs, all organic. I would imagine one of my organic harvests out produces your indoor chem garden by 10 times. The thing that will blow your mind is the quality I have been producing shits on 99% of indoor as well. Would love to smoke a bowl with you to prove it. I would also love to smoke some of your herb, it looks fantastic. However 14-18 ounces per plant doesn't impress me one bit.
I think you are trying yet again to put down religious people. Although its really hard to even figure out what you said......is English your second language? You write like a 5th grader as you try to insult others intelligence, sad really. I am going to report your posts since you just can't make a comment without digging at religion.......
Your plants are nice and all, but my plants yield 10+ lbs, all organic. I would imagine one of my organic harvests out produces your indoor chem garden by 10 times. The thing that will blow your mind is the quality I have been producing shits on 99% of indoor as well. Would love to smoke a bowl with you to prove it. I would also love to smoke some of your herb, it looks fantastic. However 14-18 ounces per plant doesn't impress me one bit.
I think you are trying yet again to put down religious people. Although its really hard to even figure out what you said......is English your second language? You write like a 5th grader as you try to insult others intelligence, sad really. I am going to report your posts since you just can't make a comment without digging at religion.......
Seamaiden
Living dead girl
- 23,596
- 638
Ok... then I have to ask, why are you participating in this thread? It seems to me that your own mind is made up. I know people who can pound your plants into the ground with their organic-grown stuff. Now what? Everyone has methods that are better and worse suited for them. This is supposed to be a discussion, but the way you're coming at it shuts any other conversation down.
Por supuesto! Green Rush, anyone? Ah, natural not-so-news-worthy-news, the great twisters and misreporters. They can't even spell "arial" correctly. I know you can do better. But what I'm really after here is your point. Are you saying that because some people take advantage, no one should be doing or buying organic?
Dude. I so fucked that up.
Ah, now see, that's something I didn't know and I'd been steered to that one video by another news story about how the groundwater in that area is becoming unusable. I studied the Chumash a bit in college, my anthropology/archaeology courses. Anyway, thank you for letting me know that the presentation was less than honest. However, I'm buying 5lb bags of organic labeled carrots for $5 in a major supermarket chain, and I do find myself wondering pretty hard about how they were really grown.
Ah, drift. I read last year about an organic asparagus farmer in Minnesota who lost almost $100,000 worth of crop to his neighbor's spray drift.
One of Hugh Lovell's recommendations to deal with woody weeds (thistles) includes CaNO3. :o
DrFever
- 470
- 93
Still waiting to see some 25 - 35 day old indoor organic grown plants anyone ???
yo seamaiden this thread is about organic vs Synthetic
Bull dog would you be so kind to post up this so called big yield ?? here is 12 plant 3 k 7 3/4 pound harvest 5 x 15 scrog and 3/4 pound of hash from trimmings so 12 plants 8.5 pounds of product :)
And a 10 pound plant come this fall :) grown all natural no watering only what mother nature gives her .
she is over 8 feet tall and 8 feet wide should start flipping in another month or so around guessing 12 - 14 foot finish
yo seamaiden this thread is about organic vs Synthetic
Bull dog would you be so kind to post up this so called big yield ?? here is 12 plant 3 k 7 3/4 pound harvest 5 x 15 scrog and 3/4 pound of hash from trimmings so 12 plants 8.5 pounds of product :)
And a 10 pound plant come this fall :) grown all natural no watering only what mother nature gives her .
she is over 8 feet tall and 8 feet wide should start flipping in another month or so around guessing 12 - 14 foot finish
420circuit
- 514
- 93
The carbon filter companies should offer an organic model, with extra filtering because of the stronger aroma. I enjoyed having the opportunity on a few occasions to compare jars of the same plant genetics, grown hydro alongside organic, and was struck by how much more complex the organic bud came out. The aroma was clearly more intense with the organic soil grown. The effects were difficult to compare at a single sitting, but my impression was that when smoking there was no noticeable difference. Find myself moving toward organic soil, but still enjoy hydro to grow edible oil plants. Nice to have the plants perfectly clean at harvest. I juice leaves from both soil and hydro and can taste no difference. Sometimes cannabis fans dig way deeper than a subject normally would be analyzed, but hey, carry on, good to get the details harvested.:D
waayne
- 3,978
- 263
Here you go @sixstring
Divine Genetics Blue Dog
Day 34
These are growing in organic soil and gets nothing but dry organic amendments,ACT, and Grokashi tea
Casper OG
Day 35
These will get some LST treatment this week,and a couple more weeks of veg.Then they'll go into flower.
These are under 315 watt ceramic metal halides
Most of my clone plants yield between 14 - 28 oz's
Divine Genetics Blue Dog
Day 34
These are growing in organic soil and gets nothing but dry organic amendments,ACT, and Grokashi tea
Casper OG
Day 35
These will get some LST treatment this week,and a couple more weeks of veg.Then they'll go into flower.
These are under 315 watt ceramic metal halides
Most of my clone plants yield between 14 - 28 oz's
DrFever
- 470
- 93
Nice so that plant your going to veg another 2 weeks and its going to give you 28 oz dry
waayne
- 3,978
- 263
@DrFever No, the Casper OG will usually put off 14-16 oz
The Blue Dog is a huge yielder and will typically yield around 26-28 0z's when grown tree style
The Blue Dog is a huge yielder and will typically yield around 26-28 0z's when grown tree style
sixstring
- 7,079
- 313
DrFever
- 470
- 93
Last edited:
squiggly
- 3,277
- 263
There's not been a good amount of research done on this--mostly owing to the fact that ag industry at large can't sustainably feed the world using organic methods. The yields just aren't there *yet*. They did enough research to show as much and pretty much stopped it right there. Ag industry, and by extension most of the well-funded research, is in a loving and monogamous relationship with yield. So here we are.
I grow organically. I have noticed a difference and frankly I just get a product that I'm more happy with--though I do get a bit less. I also find myself fighting pests less often when I stay away from synthetics.
I feel like to maximize with synthetics you have to do more babysitting and more math. I do that for work, that's a strong pass for me. Growing organically it's a tea here and there and food when the plant asks for it.
Secondarily I also liken it to dialysis in a backwards way:
Normally your kidneys clean you out all the time, they maintain homeostasis. When they fail you get dialysis and instead you're getting spikes of clean blood and dirty blood. It does the job but eventually it takes a toll.
I kinda feel the same way about synthetics vs organics. One lets me kind of set it and forget it and let the plant pull out what it needs, the other I need to play papa bear a lot more and I find myself under and overshooting things a lot more. There is definitely a lot more room with synthetics to min/max and push strains to the edge but I've had mixed results in the flavor department when doing that and I'm a guy who is mostly concerned with flavor (I get high easily enough).
My two cents would ultimately be that it's neither a myth nor is it settled that synthetics are better than organics or vice versa in any capacity beyond yield considerations and even then you will probably only see those really become a huge issue in a commercial setting. Lighting, environment control, and pot size are much larger bottlenecks on the smaller scale.
I grow organically. I have noticed a difference and frankly I just get a product that I'm more happy with--though I do get a bit less. I also find myself fighting pests less often when I stay away from synthetics.
I feel like to maximize with synthetics you have to do more babysitting and more math. I do that for work, that's a strong pass for me. Growing organically it's a tea here and there and food when the plant asks for it.
Secondarily I also liken it to dialysis in a backwards way:
Normally your kidneys clean you out all the time, they maintain homeostasis. When they fail you get dialysis and instead you're getting spikes of clean blood and dirty blood. It does the job but eventually it takes a toll.
I kinda feel the same way about synthetics vs organics. One lets me kind of set it and forget it and let the plant pull out what it needs, the other I need to play papa bear a lot more and I find myself under and overshooting things a lot more. There is definitely a lot more room with synthetics to min/max and push strains to the edge but I've had mixed results in the flavor department when doing that and I'm a guy who is mostly concerned with flavor (I get high easily enough).
My two cents would ultimately be that it's neither a myth nor is it settled that synthetics are better than organics or vice versa in any capacity beyond yield considerations and even then you will probably only see those really become a huge issue in a commercial setting. Lighting, environment control, and pot size are much larger bottlenecks on the smaller scale.
nazarbattu
- 458
- 93
Well said Squiggly, I always enjoy your post, wether blunt and concise or long and discriptive ;^}
Naz
stutter
- 325
- 93
Wouldnt it be nice to discuss rather than argue.
I am growing plants on both sides of this fence. Im growing organic living soil in containers. Im growing in coco with synthetic nutes. Im growing in an undercurrent system with synthetics and im growing aquaponically.
All of them are great in their own way.
Dont try and tell me one way is better than the others because i just havnt seen it. I like them all.
Sure my undercurrent outyields the other methods but the organic living soils are more fun and more challenging. Constantly learning with organics. And the aquaponics with the fishies has my soul brimming with joy (you cant put a value on that)
I am growing plants on both sides of this fence. Im growing organic living soil in containers. Im growing in coco with synthetic nutes. Im growing in an undercurrent system with synthetics and im growing aquaponically.
All of them are great in their own way.
Dont try and tell me one way is better than the others because i just havnt seen it. I like them all.
Sure my undercurrent outyields the other methods but the organic living soils are more fun and more challenging. Constantly learning with organics. And the aquaponics with the fishies has my soul brimming with joy (you cant put a value on that)
DrFever
- 470
- 93
Funny how you contradict your self saying under current yields more then the others yet you do not see it ???
each design has its plus an minus for instance aeroponics is designed for small plants hence most you see on the market are what 10 - 30 - 50 site 2 -3 " net pots etc designed for small or clone and flip where as under current you an grow trees also one is constantly in fluid other is misted therefore the difference is nutrient delivery mist etc
This is not about more fun and challenging its about which is syn vs organic again one which plant can uptake and use immediately and the other where living organisms need to convert it to plant food think of it this way you in line at a gas station waiting to get filled and i am driving away full who will reach the next destination sooner ... you waiting to get gas or me already on the highway
Pretty sure if anyone did side by side vegged a plant 2 weeks organic one 1 syn same strain the syn would be double the size and litterlly double in yield one person uses teas or what ever foilar spray on other hand one uses chems on foilar spray still chem would win growth , size and yield of the plant its a no brainer and anyone trying to compare the 2 is full of shit chem will win
If anyone was to compare conventional farming to organic farming pretty much one sided who wins every time this also means same for here
this becomes preference really like my self i grow organic rain water only no hand watering true organics no teas no amendments just compost but when indoor besides everyone wanting bug free environment how many organic indoor growers you know with out gnats , root aphids or any other pest we see it all the time hence for indoor growing chem is the way to go in my world
Again do whats best for your situation
MrBelvedere
- 707
- 143
... YAWN ...
Latest posts
-
Is this plant screwed? Should I kill it and remove from my tent?- Imzzaudae posted
-
Hi! New grower looking to learn- Redneckx posted
-
Phlizon 420 Sale Giveaway is Coming!- Zer0Tolerance posted
