Wisher619
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here is something that is way more troubling about the Cuyama Valley carrot industry then pumping water.....which infact is being pumped in a much more alarming rate in that area by way of Fracking..
Sea maiden of course its a huge industry so is religion if you like to compare them value of the Vatican ???? anything company will take advantage of stupid peopleDid you know that organic is a huge growth industry right now? Doing at least 10% per annum.
You've just made the argument in favor of organic agriculture. Contact your local ag extension agent, tell them you're interested in developing an organic cultivators plan. Get your state's paperwork, read it, then come back and tell us what the majority of that paperwork is focused on. Mine is focused on soil building, erosion prevention, maintaining health of watersheds, and building or maintaining wildlife areas, aka buffer strips.
Unfortunately, we seem to rapidly be losing the lessons learned during the Dust Bowl.
Not necessarily, and the use of compost and especially composted manures is reportable and regulated and watched very closely. Organic can be done right and organic can be done wrong, just like synthetic/conventional agriculture. There is organic being done wrong down in central Cali. Huge amounts of groundwater being pumped, causing salting of the soil in that area, to grow huge amounts of carrots. There's a disconnect happening, and it is due, in large part, to the fact that it's a growth industry and there will *always* be people who do things for that reason and not the reasons that many of us here are debating.
I'll have to go and see if I can find the hardcopy of some studies that contradict what you've found. The widespread harm done over decades to soils and waterways has not occurred due to organic agriculture, but in fact due to the conventional agriculture you're defending.
although your pics are nice and most your info is good,i will have to disagree on your thoughts that organic plants cant yield like chems lol.you need to consider that @waayne is probably THE best grower on this site and his plants always look nice and plump ;) i think the whole yield debate is bunk because most novice growers will take forever trying to dial in a 100% organic grow having to learn how to mix elements and cook thier soils ect and most times will just give up and go back to chems.where as chems come with fancy charts and theres always a ton of help on the net using a specific soil and nute company.Sea maiden of course its a huge industry so is religion if you like to compare them value of the Vatican ???? anything company will take advantage of stupid people
Ok i am not going to get into it to the op Chemical fed plants will destroy organics grown any day of the week that is a fact in growth health , yield you really cannot compare the 2 really organic vs DWC lol never going to happen feeding a plant something that is readily available to the plant compared to something that needs to be broken down for plant to use
pretty simple really lets see some pictures of grown organic indoor plants 5 weeks veg here some day 27 from clone chem fed and day 35 could some die hard organic growers be so kind to post there 25 - 35 day from clone grow View attachment 525638 View attachment 525639
PS 14 - 18 oz dry per plant indoor
Sea maiden of course its a huge industry so is religion if you like to compare them value of the Vatican ???? anything company will take advantage of stupid people
Ok... then I have to ask, why are you participating in this thread? It seems to me that your own mind is made up. I know people who can pound your plants into the ground with their organic-grown stuff. Now what? Everyone has methods that are better and worse suited for them. This is supposed to be a discussion, but the way you're coming at it shuts any other conversation down.Sea maiden of course its a huge industry so is religion if you like to compare them value of the Vatican ???? anything company will take advantage of stupid people
Ok i am not going to get into it to the op Chemical fed plants will destroy organics grown any day of the week that is a fact in growth health , yield you really cannot compare the 2 really organic vs DWC lol never going to happen feeding a plant something that is readily available to the plant compared to something that needs to be broken down for plant to use
Por supuesto! Green Rush, anyone? Ah, natural not-so-news-worthy-news, the great twisters and misreporters. They can't even spell "arial" correctly. I know you can do better. But what I'm really after here is your point. Are you saying that because some people take advantage, no one should be doing or buying organic?Seamaiden this post is for you where ever there is money to be made corruption follows
Dude. I so fucked that up.I opened a thread to discuss this topic specifically but sea deleted it cause she hates me.
Ah, now see, that's something I didn't know and I'd been steered to that one video by another news story about how the groundwater in that area is becoming unusable. I studied the Chumash a bit in college, my anthropology/archaeology courses. Anyway, thank you for letting me know that the presentation was less than honest. However, I'm buying 5lb bags of organic labeled carrots for $5 in a major supermarket chain, and I do find myself wondering pretty hard about how they were really grown.@Seamaiden Ive seen the permaculture video an I know exactly where that farm is....the problem I have is that guy is a Douchebag and what he is trying to sell to the viewers is loaded with bullshit....If he just said by pumping this water it is destroying the enviroment but he uses props like the Chumash used to fish in that river...1000 years ago...literally
That land has been the way it has been for Atleast a few hundred years...when Hurst came upon the land in the mid 1800's it was nothing but wasteland with a lot of oil...
It still is a wasteland with a lot of oil...and that has nothing to do with organic carrots....
seeing things like that leave a bad taste in my mouth
I hate propaganda and what better way then to vilify an infant organic farm for destroying the enviroment from what was once a glorious land 1000-1500 years ago...but they never tell you that part...
Maybe they are salting the land with the tiny amout of water they are pumping out to water the tiny ass carrot farm....
Sorry about that rant
@Seamaiden
no hard feelings...I love organic and even more permaculture an try to practice both along with other methods but it just boils my blood those propaganda films...Kinda like Michael Moore garbage
@gardnguyahoy
Just research the company's that you might choose to go with and study the practices they choose to work with....how clean is the product they put out and as a company how much are they environmentally conscious..
Also LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL.....
Ah, drift. I read last year about an organic asparagus farmer in Minnesota who lost almost $100,000 worth of crop to his neighbor's spray drift.here is something that is way more troubling about the Cuyama Valley carrot industry then pumping water.....which infact is being pumped in a much more alarming rate in that area by way of Fracking..
One of Hugh Lovell's recommendations to deal with woody weeds (thistles) includes CaNO3. :oAnother great point in how AEA uses their non organic fertilizer with biology in mind. So even chem's can be good for the soil with the proper products.
Here you go @sixstring
Divine Genetics Blue Dog
Day 34
These are growing in organic soil and gets nothing but dry organic amendments,ACT, and Grokashi tea
View attachment 525980
Casper OG
Day 35
These will get some LST treatment this week,and a couple more weeks of veg.Then they'll go into flower.
These are under 315 watt ceramic metal halides
Most of my clone plants yield between 14 - 28 oz's
View attachment 525986
Well said Squiggly, I always enjoy your post, wether blunt and concise or long and discriptive ;^}There's not been a good amount of research done on this--mostly owing to the fact that ag industry at large can't sustainably feed the world using organic methods. The yields just aren't there *yet*. They did enough research to show as much and pretty much stopped it right there. Ag industry, and by extension most of the well-funded research, is in a loving and monogamous relationship with yield. So here we are.
I grow organically. I have noticed a difference and frankly I just get a product that I'm more happy with--though I do get a bit less. I also find myself fighting pests less often when I stay away from synthetics.
I feel like to maximize with synthetics you have to do more babysitting and more math. I do that for work, that's a strong pass for me. Growing organically it's a tea here and there and food when the plant asks for it.
Secondarily I also liken it to dialysis in a backwards way:
Normally your kidneys clean you out all the time, they maintain homeostasis. When they fail you get dialysis and instead you're getting spikes of clean blood and dirty blood. It does the job but eventually it takes a toll.
I kinda feel the same way about synthetics vs organics. One lets me kind of set it and forget it and let the plant pull out what it needs, the other I need to play papa bear a lot more and I find myself under and overshooting things a lot more. There is definitely a lot more room with synthetics to min/max and push strains to the edge but I've had mixed results in the flavor department when doing that and I'm a guy who is mostly concerned with flavor (I get high easily enough).
My two cents would ultimately be that it's neither a myth nor is it settled that synthetics are better than organics or vice versa in any capacity beyond yield considerations and even then you will probably only see those really become a huge issue in a commercial setting. Lighting, environment control, and pot size are much larger bottlenecks on the smaller scale.
Wouldnt it be nice to discuss rather than argue.
I am growing plants on both sides of this fence. Im growing organic living soil in containers. Im growing in coco with synthetic nutes. Im growing in an undercurrent system with synthetics and im growing aquaponically.
All of them are great in their own way.
Dont try and tell me one way is better than the others because i just havnt seen it. I like them all.
Sure my undercurrent outyields the other methods but the organic living soils are more fun and more challenging. Constantly learning with organics. And the aquaponics with the fishies has my soul brimming with joy (you cant put a value on that)