Synthetic Vs. Organic: Not So Black And White

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Quantrill

Quantrill

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"Marijuana is the most energy intense manufacturing process in the United States today," says Timothy Hade, co-founder, in a recent interview. "Producing a pound of marijuana uses 300 times more energy than producing a pound of aluminum."
 
squiggly

squiggly

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In the field, the actual scientific field of human nutrition, that myth is being dispelled, quickly. One example of that is how we are learning that foods, and what foods, should be eaten in combination. Probiotics, anyone? Just go back to my very first post in this thread.

Bit of a necro--but it kind of isn't.

You're not wrong in terms of advances, and those continue to accelerate. Unfortunately they get nowhere near to the exponential growth we are seeing in our population.

If you're lucky, you'll see us hit critical mass population wise where shit starts to get really, really, ugly.

If I don't die young of cancer I will FOR SURE witness this. Even the yield heavy water pumped salt grown shit won't shield me from it. I have too many years left.

Flat out we aren't good enough at making food to feed all the people we're gonna have. Efficiency at all costs will become the name of the game. It already is but soon it will be absolute necessity.

Way sooner than lots of very smart people think. This is the ultimate human procrastination. We are making more people than we can feed by a factor of 5. Period the end that's what we're doing. The other shoe will drop. No question.
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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Bit of a necro--but it kind of isn't.

You're not wrong in terms of advances, and those continue to accelerate. Unfortunately they get nowhere near to the exponential growth we are seeing in our population.

If you're lucky, you'll see us hit critical mass population wise where shit starts to get really, really, ugly.

If I don't die young of cancer I will FOR SURE witness this. Even the yield heavy water pumped salt grown shit won't shield me from it. I have too many years left.

Flat out we aren't good enough at making food to feed all the people we're gonna have. Efficiency at all costs will become the name of the game. It already is but soon it will be absolute necessity.

Way sooner than lots of very smart people think. This is the ultimate human procrastination. We are making more people than we can feed by a factor of 5. Period the end that's what we're doing. The other shoe will drop. No question.
Dang, what a pleasant surprise to see you around again. I hope your well Squig. Peace
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Flat out we aren't good enough at making food to feed all the people we're gonna have. Efficiency at all costs will become the name of the game. It already is but soon it will be absolute necessity.
We need to *first* get better at not wasting the food, and wealth redistribution is an issue because the biggest factor in hunger isn't lack of access to food, it's lack of access to money. In other words, we're already growing enough food to feed approximately 30%-40% more people, but we can't because it's being thrown out.

Glad to see you around, even if only for a minute. :D
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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they way it's extracted and stored, the extraction destroys the life in the material and the ph alone in storage kills what's left...
Agreed on any of the minerals we need to do what we do. Tearing into Mother Earth someday is going to have serious repercussions. Good thing she is a Mom because she exhibits great patience with her children, but rest assured when she has had enough of being raped, pillaged, torn into, polluted, poked, prodded and shit upon, she will one day shrug her mighty shoulders and dispatch all of us like the parasites we have become. And when I say "we" I speak for myself and the world population in general. :)
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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We need to *first* get better at not wasting the food, and wealth redistribution is an issue because the biggest factor in hunger isn't lack of access to food, it's lack of access to money. In other words, we're already growing enough food to feed approximately 30%-40% more people, but we can't because it's being thrown out.

Glad to see you around, even if only for a minute. :D
I saw a special one time and the amount of produce and edible food we throw away daily in the US is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.5 million pounds!!!!!! . That's daily. OMG We are a Nation of excess, a throw away society, right down to our fellow human beings. A wise man once said there would come a time when the white man would figure out he cant eat money and will choke on his own pollution. I opted to not speak the name lest the thread get shut down for political themes, ya know like the Standing Rock thread........ :D Ajo
 
P

Pimples

772
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Bit of a necro--but it kind of isn't.

You're not wrong in terms of advances, and those continue to accelerate. Unfortunately they get nowhere near to the exponential growth we are seeing in our population.

If you're lucky, you'll see us hit critical mass population wise where shit starts to get really, really, ugly.

If I don't die young of cancer I will FOR SURE witness this. Even the yield heavy water pumped salt grown shit won't shield me from it. I have too many years left.

Flat out we aren't good enough at making food to feed all the people we're gonna have. Efficiency at all costs will become the name of the game. It already is but soon it will be absolute necessity.

Way sooner than lots of very smart people think. This is the ultimate human procrastination. We are making more people than we can feed by a factor of 5. Period the end that's what we're doing. The other shoe will drop. No question.
Been saying this for years. Our population growth on this finite resource of a planet has to be in direct proportion to our technological ability to explore space and find new rocks floating around another cozy star....and colonize them. If not....eventually we are doomed. Ineveitable...no matter the time frame.
 
P

Pimples

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And in a way...we kinda have hit "critical mass" somewhat. I mean really...you can trace just about every event or "problem" to over population. Just ask yourself...why cant we buy gas guzzling muscle cars with leaded gas anymore? Sure its pollution...but thats relative to how many people there are driving them
If we were 5 billion less we could...damn sure.
 
P

Pimples

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Just think...SEVEN BILLION AND COUNTING!!! And we havent even made it past the moon.
 
Seven Trees

Seven Trees

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I started off as an organic grower in a living organic soil amending w/ teas. I'm familiar w/ really great organic bud, and it never falls short of blowing me away. However, nowadays I'm getting interested in hydro, the rapid metabolism of the plants excites me. The more research I do, the difference between synthetics and organic is becoming more muddled, and I know that might sound backward, but to give you an idea of what I mean, read this article(takes 5-10 mins.)

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/natural-vs-synthetic-chemicals-is-a-gray-matter/
by Dorea Reeser

In the article she trys to dispell 3 myths:
1. Synthetic chemicals are more toxic than natural/organic ones.
2. Organic food is better for you because its natural.
3. Synthetic copies are not as good as natural chemicals.

Not trying to debate which bud is better, organic or synthetic.



The problem with this opinion is that it fails to acknowledge the massive amounts of heavy metals contamination in horticultural grade fertilizers: both synthetic (GH) and organic (ie. Botanicare). Your dank might look as good in a jar vs. organic, and you might notice a bump in quality switching from Synthetic to Organic (both chelated chemical crap) but you can't un-do the poisoning you've added to it by force-feeding heavy metals into the plant.

By growing with hydro chelated synthetics, you're not only losing diversity of terpene profiles, you're literally poisoning people with mercury, cadmium, aluminum, and many other heavy metals, each of which contribute to neurological conditions such as alzheimers.

 
Beachwalker

Beachwalker

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Bit of a necro--but it kind of isn't.

You're not wrong in terms of advances, and those continue to accelerate. Unfortunately they get nowhere near to the exponential growth we are seeing in our population.

If you're lucky, you'll see us hit critical mass population wise where shit starts to get really, really, ugly.

If I don't die young of cancer I will FOR SURE witness this. Even the yield heavy water pumped salt grown shit won't shield me from it. I have too many years left.

Flat out we aren't good enough at making food to feed all the people we're gonna have. Efficiency at all costs will become the name of the game. It already is but soon it will be absolute necessity.

Way sooner than lots of very smart people think. This is the ultimate human procrastination. We are making more people than we can feed by a factor of 5. Period the end that's what we're doing. The other shoe will drop. No question.
 
THCMonster

THCMonster

380
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Ok fun fact, theres really actually no major difference between organic vs synthetic nutrients for your plant!

I can confirm this by both visual proof (if wanted) and by running some interesting facts by you!

So in nature a plant can only take up base essential ELEMENTS, and COMPOUNDS!

These elements can only be created or combined from two ways:

Natural synthesis or un-natural synthesis.

When you feed your plants Earthworm castings your plants dont take up the earthworm castings themselves, the bacteria and microbes or the organic acids like humic and fulvic acids have to break the organic matter further down to actually feed your plant!

Proven case is a fish tank:

Fish poop doesnt actually feed your plants, nitrifying bacteria have to break down the ammonia from fish poop down into nitrites, then different nitrifying bacteria break nitrites down into nitrates! Only after this natural synthesis can your plants actually properly uptake nitrates as nitrogen use! Also that conversion of ammonia to nitrate is a compound called AMMONIUM NITRATE, which is usually considered a synthetic nutrient, but its not!

Another example is volcanos (those fuckers are natural, right?) well they create lots of nutrients that leach into both water and the air! The biggest one being sulfur, and when sulfur and water hydrolyse (become a aqueous solution) you are left with SULFURIC ACID!!! Surprisingly that shits natural!

Well when that sulfuric acid leaching into something, hmmm lets say limestone (calcium carbonate) you end up with a baking soda/vinegar type reaction! Whats left over after the reaction occurs is called CALCIUM SULFATE. Also a completely natural compound!

See nature makes most of all the nutrients you see in man made fertilizers at the end of it all!

The reason we believe there is a difference between organic/natural and synthetic is because 95-99% of most people didnt learn a single thing from chemistry class back in highschool!

Major companies prey on ignorant people so that way they can make more money!

Gotta love a Capitalist society!

The only real reason you see better results with organics then synthetics (half of the time) is because nature knows how to synthesize shit way better then us humans! I would hope so though! Mother natures had billions of years of trial and error!
 
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StonedBlue

StonedBlue

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Ok fun fact, theres really actually no major difference between organic vs synthetic nutrients for your plant!

I can confirm this by both visual proof (if wanted) and by running some interesting facts by you!

So in nature a plant can only take up base essential ELEMENTS, and COMPOUNDS!

These elements can only be created or combined from two ways:

Natural synthesis or un-natural synthesis.

When you feed your plants Earthworm castings your plants dont take up the earthworm castings themselves, the bacteria and microbes or the organic acids like humic and fulvic acids have to break the organic matter further down to actually feed your plant!

Proven case is a fish tank:

Fish poop doesnt actually feed your plants, nitrifying bacteria have to break down the ammonia from fish poop down into nitrites, then different nitrifying bacteria break nitrites down into nitrates! Only after this natural synthesis can your plants actually properly uptake nitrates as nitrogen use! Also that conversion of ammonia to nitrate is a compound called AMMONIUM NITRATE, which is usually considered a synthetic nutrient, but its not!

Another example is volcanos (those fuckers are natural, right?) well they create lots of nutrients that leach into both water and the air! The biggest one being sulfur, and when sulfur and water hydrolyse (become a aqueous solution) you are left with SULFURIC ACID!!! Surprisingly that shits natural!

Well when that sulfuric acid leaching into something, hmmm lets say limestone (calcium carbonate) you end up with a baking soda/vinegar type reaction! Whats left over after the reaction occurs is called CALCIUM SULFATE. Also a completely natural compound!

See nature makes most of all the nutrients you see in man made fertilizers at the end of it all!

The reason we believe there is a difference between organic/natural and synthetic is because 95-99% of most people didnt learn a single thing from chemistry class back in highschool!

Major companies prey on ignorant people so that way they can make more money!

Gotta love a Capitalist society!

The only real reason you see better results with organics then synthetics (half of the time) is because nature knows how to synthesize shit way better then us humans! I would hope so though! Mother natures had billions of years of trial and error!
Well I can assure that I can tell the difference when I smoke the bud. I've gone back to soil and am using total living organics. Growing the same strain in coco and tlo, the taste profile is totally different. I've grown the strain 4x in coco and third in soil.
 
bongstar

bongstar

238
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Growing method is a choice and people have success in both organic and synthetic. It's still the Same old argument from the synth guys. They always say organic matter has to be broken down into a useable form of ionized nutrients before it can be taken up and that the plant doesn't know the difference. Then they try to delineate the entire decomposition process and toss around big words, like we have no grasp on basic chemistry and that we think that plants eat bat poop. like Seamaiden said " I can tell you this, each and every professional registered dietitian I know (they are to nutritionists what a chiropractor is to an M.D/O.D., just to give you an idea of the education level) insists that the best way to get your needed nutrients is through the food you eat, not through pills." We can all pull up article's and study's to back our point. Hey so can Beyer and Mansanto. Here is from Beyer's web site "
Glyphosate is one of the most studied herbicides in the world – and, like all crop protection products, it is subject to rigorous testing and oversight by regulatory authorities. There is an extensive body of research on glyphosate and glyphosate-based herbicides, including more than 800 scientific studies and reviews submitted to U.S., European and other regulators in connection with the registration process, that confirm that glyphosate and our glyphosate-based formulated products can be used safely and are not carcinogenic." Science is great and teaches us alot but it can't answer all that go's on in this incredibly complex place called earth. And it's the complexity of of properly maintained organic soil that gives organic cannabis and foods there higher terp, flavinoids, and nutrition content. Try as we may we can't match nature's incredibly wonderful power. Key word in wonderful is wonder. When you stop wondering and think you know it all you stop learning.
 
detroitjoe

detroitjoe

634
93
I started off as an organic grower in a living organic soil amending w/ teas. I'm familiar w/ really great organic bud, and it never falls short of blowing me away. However, nowadays I'm getting interested in hydro, the rapid metabolism of the plants excites me. The more research I do, the difference between synthetics and organic is becoming more muddled, and I know that might sound backward, but to give you an idea of what I mean, read this article(takes 5-10 mins.)

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/natural-vs-synthetic-chemicals-is-a-gray-matter/
by Dorea Reeser

In the article she trys to dispell 3 myths:
1. Synthetic chemicals are more toxic than natural/organic ones.
2. Organic food is better for you because its natural.
3. Synthetic copies are not as good as natural chemicals.

It's kinda an in depth subject, more than I could do justice to explain on here, so reading the article would be way better. And if you really pick out the inidividual points she makes and research those as well, you'll see why my brain is becoming more muddled over this subject.

Also, has it ever occurred to anyone else that living organics(any version: supersoil, tlo...) might not precisely fall under the definition of "natural". I mean, where in nature does such perfectly amended soil exist. And where on earth does it rain the amazingly rich in bio-life teas that are applied in living organics that really make it worth the extra effort. Yeah, I'm sure in at least one place on earth soil that perfect does exist, but it's got to be seldom. No? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't most of nature(wild) have not so great soil, and uses the vegetative litter each year(during fall/dry season) to recycle to the nutrients? Does anyone have any of worthwhile info on this or links to scientific studies or such. If you can prove this wrong please do, I'm always down for a good knowledge drop! I'm certainly not a scientist and don't pretend to be.

Not trying to debate which bud is better, organic or synthetic. Even if organic truly is better, maybe it's just because it's been doing it for a lot longer than humans, and we have some catching up to do. But maybe we'll catch up(really hard to doubt this with today's technology). Anyways, this article definitely shows this is a very muddled topic, but a really interesting one imo. What's your opinion(read the article first!)??

ORGANIC. let's look at the word first.

SYNTHETIC. Let's look at the second word.

The only difference between the two are...
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!

lol.
Nothing here, Go about your business
 
StonedBlue

StonedBlue

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ORGANIC. let's look at the word first.

SYNTHETIC. Let's look at the second word.

The only difference between the two are...
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!

lol.
Nothing here, Go about your business
The science can say what it wants. I can tell the difference and so can anyone else who's had true organic bud.
I've grown the same strain for the last 8 crops. First 2 were in coco, 1 gallon feeding every hour of light. Went to soil for 2 grows using synthetics. Last 4 have been TLO, total living organics. All with a 2 week flush. The TLO stuff blows away on taste and smoothness. Not even close.
 

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