Tea In Nutrient Reservoir

[Mike Hawk]

Would it be ok to put some concentrated tea in a nutrient res that is changed out weekly, or would it go bad after a few days? If so, how much would be the optimal amount of tea to add? Also, would a typical off the shelf ph up/down harm the bennies in the res? I'd like to add bennies daily to my coco instead of once a week of it will work...

 

[Mr.sativa]

Any off the shelf ph adjuster will definitely kill off any and all beneficial bacteria since the are all acid based synthetic made chemicals, I use earth juice ph up and down crystals if needed so much better on the micro beasties! Hope the 411 is what u needed I'm new to this site but not new to farming

 

[Mike Hawk]

I should've also mentions that it's not a recirculating res. I do dtw so it's just a res with air stones to keep things oxygenated.

Thanks @Mr.sativa I will look into the earth juice. I've been using the acid based stuff this whole time while using orca and sea green in the res among other things. Wonder if the ph adjusters have been killing the bennies this whole time :confused:

 

[Seamaiden]

Not if you're adding them to the water column first.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Not if you're adding them to the water column first.

Not sure if I'm understanding correctly. Are you saying that if I ph after the bennies have been added, that I would be fine?

 

[Seamaiden]

For the most part, yes. If you add the straight pH adjuster then it's going to kill what it touches in its undiluted form. But if it's mixed into the water column, or for example mixed into a smaller part of water and then added, it should be fine. I base this on my experience with fish, because if pH adjusters did kill microbes ipso facto, most everyone with a tank would be starting from scratch (establishing their biological filtration--NO aquarium goes without it) every time they adjusted system pH.

So let's say you've made a 30gal batch of tea, and you know that it's holding steady at 7.4, and you know that you have to use a certain amount of pH down (acid) to shift it down and keep it there. You would take out say a gallon or two of the tea, add your pH adjuster, then slowly mix it back in.

OR, you can adjust pH prior to adding the microbes and avoid all that other stuff. Once the water column is pH'd you should be just fine.

 

[Cherrorist]

Na ph first bro, I think it's the undiluted acid dropped on the beneficials that kills em off. As far as I'm aware if its mixed first you'll be ok.

 

[Cherrorist]

You got a much better answer before I had time to chip in lol

 

[Chrondondalae]

Would it be ok to put some concentrated tea in a nutrient res that is changed out weekly, or would it go bad after a few days? If so, how much would be the optimal amount of tea to add? Also, would a typical off the shelf ph up/down harm the bennies in the res? I'd like to add bennies daily to my coco instead of once a week of it will work...

I've been doing it for years. 1-2 cups per 10 gallons. Start your ph low at 5.5 and let it drift up through out the week. I like to add it the day after I mix my nutes for the week. I also water in tea at 30-100% the day I add it to the res,

 

[Mike Hawk]

I've been doing it for years. 1-2 cups per 10 gallons. Start your ph low at 5.5 and let it drift up through out the week. I like to add it the day after I mix my nutes for the week. I also water in tea at 30-100% the day I add it to the res,

That's EXACTLY what I did yesterday. My nute mix had been bubbling overnight then I dumped a couple cups in 5 gallons of mix before watering in the concentrated tea. Got some earth juice citric acid to be safe on the goods with adjusting the ph. Man that stuff is super concentrated. Half tsp put me at 3.8 from 6.7. Then I adjusted it to 5.5 per Bryce's advice at heavy 16. He did mention also to let it ride up throughout the week to 6.6 max. He said the reason for the allowable fluctuation is because h16 is on an "organic acid scale". I'm no chemist so not quite sure what that means but it sounds like you have plenty of experience with this procedure.

 

[Mike Hawk]

After adding a couple cups of tea to my aerated res, my ph rose to 9 every day and built up a nasty sludge in the res and on the stones. I think I'll stick to root drenches.

 

[Seamaiden]

Well, I really hate to say it, but that may be a property of the talc in combination with RO or pure water (water with no alkalinity). May I suggest first making the tea, then letting it settle for several minutes as advised by Capulator, then pouring off the liquid and using *that* in your reservoir?

Properties
Pure talc mineral is characterized by softness, hydrophobic surface properties, and a slippery feeling. Some commercial talcs may be harder because of the presence of impurities and associated minerals such as dolomite, calcite, tremolite and quartz.
The characteristic slippery property is a result of the crystal structure of pure talc mineral. It consists of a brucite sheet (Mg12O12H4) sandwiched between two silica sheets, to form talc layers that are superimposed indefinitely. Each layer is electrically neutral. Adjacent layers are held together only by weak van der Waals forces.
Talc is inert in most chemical reagents, although it exhibits a marked alkalinity (typically pH 9.0 – 9.5). It is however soluble in hot concentrated phosphoric acid.

 

[Capulator]

After adding a couple cups of tea to my aerated res, my ph rose to 9 every day and built up a nasty sludge in the res and on the stones. I think I'll stick to root drenches.

Citric acid will create bacterial bloom you are better of using a synthetic pH down.

You may also use a 1 gallon pitcher, mix the bennies and just water, then let settle, then pour off the water with microbes in to the tea bucket leavign the talc behind. Then brew tea.

1-2 cups per 5 gallons has never affected my reservoirs the way you mention so I am almost positive it is the citric acid. The talc shoudl not be significant enough to raise the pH to 9.

Orca is unnecessary in a res. It is mainly mycorrhizae and they will not do any good sitting in liquid. they need to be by plant root exudates in order to get working.

If adding pH down mix some first with a gallon of water then slowly add. Better then dumping pH up/down concentrated in to the res. Not a huge deal but my thought was always that you will inevitably wipe out some good guys as the stream of concentrated pHup/down hits them as you pour it in, even if it is just 30mL

 

[Mike Hawk]

Citric acid will create bacterial bloom you are better of using a synthetic pH down.

You may also use a 1 gallon pitcher, mix the bennies and just water, then let settle, then pour off the water with microbes in to the tea bucket leavign the talc behind. Then brew tea.

1-2 cups per 5 gallons has never affected my reservoirs the way you mention so I am almost positive it is the citric acid. The talc shoudl not be significant enough to raise the pH to 9.

Orca is unnecessary in a res. It is mainly mycorrhizae and they will not do any good sitting in liquid. they need to be by plant root exudates in order to get working.

If adding pH down mix some first with a gallon of water then slowly add. Better then dumping pH up/down concentrated in to the res. Not a huge deal but my thought was always that you will inevitably wipe out some good guys as the stream of concentrated pHup/down hits them as you pour it in, even if it is just 30mL

My ph starts at close to 9 from the ro tap so I'm not sure if it's a factor of my ph shooting back up. It happens with or without tea added but I have never seen sludge like that.

So orca is pointless as a product? It's liquid mycorrhizae meant for hydro reservoirs. Not doubting this, just wondering if I should scrap it. I keep it in the res for daily waterings along with rapid start in between weekly ogbiowar drenches. I haven't had roots poking out the sides of my smart pots like this before.

 

[Seamaiden]

My ph starts at close to 9 from the ro tap so I'm not sure if it's a factor of my ph shooting back up.

Something is very wrong with your RO filter if the pH coming out is 9, nothing the tea can do to help or hurt.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Something is very wrong with your RO filter if the pH coming out is 9, nothing the tea can do to help or hurt.

That's what my city tap water is at, and doesn't change the ph going through hydro logic stealth system (not aware that it's supposed to). It lowers my ppm from almost 400 to 20 that's about it.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, if you're passing the water through a reverse osmosis system then the pH should be shifting downward and quite a bit. Is it truly RO, using membranes and not simply mechanical and chemical (activated carbon) filtration? I'm not familiar with that brand of filter. RO should be removing the vast majority of minerals that cause alkalinity (resistance to pH shift).

http://espwaterproducts.com/about-reverse-osmosis.htm

 

[Mike Hawk]

Yes, if you're passing the water through a reverse osmosis system then the pH should be shifting downward and quite a bit. Is it truly RO, using membranes and not simply mechanical and chemical (activated carbon) filtration? I'm not familiar with that brand of filter. RO should be removing the vast majority of minerals that cause alkalinity (resistance to pH shift).

http://espwaterproducts.com/about-reverse-osmosis.htm

This is the little system that I'm running. I believe a lot of people run this and it does a great job I thought. I even use it for drinking water and tastes great. But again I wasn't aware that it was supposed to lower ph. I does a few points but nothing drastic

 

[Mike Hawk]

"Reverse osmosis filtration may or may not reduce the pH level of water at a noticeable amount. The pH difference after the RO depends on the composition of your input water source as well as the amount of gases such as CO2 in your local water supply. Water pH is actually a very complicated subject involving water and open air chemistry.

We have done many laboratory tests on the effects of our RO systems on water pH composition. The Southern California water sources used in our tests were slightly alkaline with an average pre-treatment rating of 8.12 pH. After filtration through our RO systems, the resulting pH averaged 8.06. Our results confirmed the conclusions of others in the scientific community –the reverse osmosis treatment process has very minimal effect on water pH chemistry."

 

[Capulator]

My ph starts at close to 9 from the ro tap so I'm not sure if it's a factor of my ph shooting back up. It happens with or without tea added but I have never seen sludge like that.

So orca is pointless as a product? It's liquid mycorrhizae meant for hydro reservoirs. Not doubting this, just wondering if I should scrap it. I keep it in the res for daily waterings along with rapid start in between weekly ogbiowar drenches. I haven't had roots poking out the sides of my smart pots like this before.

Orca is not pointless. It is better to not just throw it in the res though. If you already have the nute and root packs then yes orca is very redundant and a waste of money IMHO.