Tea Recipe

click80 · May 31, 2012

I am did some out of the Gin Bottle thinking...oops, I meant outside the box thinking and since I don't have a DO meter I am going to measure CO2 production from the batch of tea i'm starting in a little bit.

BTW if anyone wants a CO2 meter on the cheap but definitely quality product, there is a website www.CO2meter.com that has some great prices, comes with software that keeps records in Excel format, has models that you can change your high and low parameters throught the software, and many different models.

Anyway, I am curious about how the C02 levels change as the tea progresses and if it could indicate when a bloom occurs....

Disambiguator · Jun 2, 2012

Runoff pH does not give an accurate picture of what's happening in the root zone. A better method is to take a core sample, dilute 1:5, soil:H2O. I built a core sampler designed especially for containers. Some of my materials will create + or - pH extremes. As a first line of attack, I try to bring the pH in range by balancing a high pH w/ a low pH nutes (or vice versa). If I have an acidic tea recipe (w/ micronutrients and kelp, for example,) I try to balance w/ a high pH tea, ie w/ something like Peruvian seabird guano that takes 6.0 water up to 7.5/8.0. If you are using a calcium source to raise pH, keep in mind that it will effect the Mg and K uptake. I rarely need to pH up w/ my regimen and use food grade citric acid to pH down, usually to bring my ROd water down to 5.6-6.2.

El Cerebro · Jun 2, 2012

Disambiguator said:
food grade citric acid to pH down, usually to bring my ROd water down to 5.6-6.2.

Do you ever get growth in the res using citric like this? I did. Some good way to prevent?

Disambiguator · Jun 2, 2012

I'm in soil and didn't use when I was in hydro. Don't know why or if citric acid would cause more or less growth in res than any other pH down. Citric acid also has some side benefits to plant health other than lowering the soil pH.

click80 · Jun 2, 2012

Disambiguator said:
I'm in soil and didn't use when I was in hydro. Don't know why or if citric acid would cause more or less growth in res than any other pH down. Citric acid also has some side benefits to plant health other than lowering the soil pH.

I came across this article a couple days ago. Have not had time to look into it further, but was wondering, for one thing, if you could add this into tea's to maybe give it a little boost? In the vein of though I was also wondering if it is an ingredient in any of the nutrient solutions that labs use when batch culturing microbes.

El Cerebro · Jun 2, 2012

Disambiguator said:
I'm in soil and didn't use when I was in hydro. Don't know why or if citric acid would cause more or less growth in res than any other pH down. Citric acid also has some side benefits to plant health other than lowering the soil pH.

I'm not in hydro, just grew a bunch of bacteria in my res, maybe algae too (check article below). I've been saving citric for pre-harvest flushing, but would like to learn more about it's chelating properties re specific minerals (not to junk up this thread too much).

From JR Peters website:

Grower Question :
“We have some sort of mold or algae growing in a concentrated mixture of citric acid and water. I don’t know the exact mixture, but does citric acid tend to support organic life under certain conditions?”

Dr. Cari’s response…
The answer to your great question is YES!
Citric acid is one of algae’s favorite things to use as a food source. It not only drops the pH into a range that they enjoy it also is an organic acid…providing a buffet of Carbon (C), Hydrogen (H) and Oxygen’s (O) for the organisms to stuff themselves with. Organic acids are a perfect food source to set off a fantastic bloom either by themselves or as a hidden addition in your fertilizer formula ( you won’t find that info on the label)! Growers often use citric acid as a weak acidifier, yet they don’t realize some of the other problems that can follow if left out in the elements of a normal greenhouse.

Unfortunately there isn’t much you can do, but limit light to the tank mixture or add another element like hydrogen peroxide or Zero-tol to control these outbreaks. You may have better luck avoiding this environment if you switch to a mineral acid like sulfuric or phosphoric acid as your choice method of acidifying. Mineral acids are a much stronger acidifyier, therefore they usually require less ( and cost less) to have the same effect as a great quantity of citric acid. In addition, choosing to use sulfuric acid in the form of battery (35%) or concentrated (96%) acid will add extra nutrient concentrations of sulfate ( a great greener) which can be low in certain conditions.

Disambiguator · Jun 2, 2012

Interesting. I've gotten green algae on the soil surface during the first week of new cuts/seedlings and have been at a loss for the cause. The last time this happened was when I over calcified my mix and had to add copious amounts of citric acid to correct. Makes sense as I don't get it when the soil is balanced. As for concentration, amounts and relative expense, a pinch, (5ml) in 4 gal of ROd water will drop the pH a point + from ie 7.2->6. I did a cost analysis that I'll look for, but remember that the cost of 5ml of citric acid= less than a half cent.

click80 · Jun 2, 2012

Disambiguator said:
Runoff pH does not give an accurate picture of what's happening in the root zone. A better method is to take a core sample, dilute 1:5, soil:H2O. I built a core sampler designed especially for containers. Some of my materials will create + or - pH extremes. As a first line of attack, I try to bring the pH in range by balancing a high pH w/ a low pH nutes (or vice versa). If I have an acidic tea recipe (w/ micronutrients and kelp, for example,) I try to balance w/ a high pH tea, ie w/ something like Peruvian seabird guano that takes 6.0 water up to 7.5/8.0. If you are using a calcium source to raise pH, keep in mind that it will effect the Mg and K uptake. I rarely need to pH up w/ my regimen and use food grade citric acid to pH down, usually to bring my ROd water down to 5.6-6.2.

Thanks...good info. There is more you can do in soil than I knew, lot of reading to do. The good thing is that most of it is about how easy it is to do good things. Not like hydro where most of the reading is how to avoid screwing up...just my opinion.

click80 · Jun 2, 2012

good general notes from CSU Master Gardener Program on almost every subject that you can think of in gardening.

Capulator · Jun 2, 2012

El Cerebro said:
I'm not in hydro, just grew a bunch of bacteria in my res, maybe algae too (check article below). I've been saving citric for pre-harvest flushing, but would like to learn more about it's chelating properties re specific minerals (not to junk up this thread too much).

From JR Peters website:

Grower Question :
“We have some sort of mold or algae growing in a concentrated mixture of citric acid and water. I don’t know the exact mixture, but does citric acid tend to support organic life under certain conditions?”

Dr. Cari’s response…
The answer to your great question is YES!
Citric acid is one of algae’s favorite things to use as a food source. It not only drops the pH into a range that they enjoy it also is an organic acid…providing a buffet of Carbon (C), Hydrogen (H) and Oxygen’s (O) for the organisms to stuff themselves with. Organic acids are a perfect food source to set off a fantastic bloom either by themselves or as a hidden addition in your fertilizer formula ( you won’t find that info on the label)! Growers often use citric acid as a weak acidifier, yet they don’t realize some of the other problems that can follow if left out in the elements of a normal greenhouse.

Unfortunately there isn’t much you can do, but limit light to the tank mixture or add another element like hydrogen peroxide or Zero-tol to control these outbreaks. You may have better luck avoiding this environment if you switch to a mineral acid like sulfuric or phosphoric acid as your choice method of acidifying. Mineral acids are a much stronger acidifyier, therefore they usually require less ( and cost less) to have the same effect as a great quantity of citric acid. In addition, choosing to use sulfuric acid in the form of battery (35%) or concentrated (96%) acid will add extra nutrient concentrations of sulfate ( a great greener) which can be low in certain conditions.

Love me some sulfuric acid, especially when I'm careful with it.

click80 · Jun 3, 2012

Maybe it's not algae and it's cyanobacteria? I know that when I started using Caps stuff I occasionally get some greenish stuff on the sides of my smart pots. I figured, since my moms are like perfect (despite me), it was cyanobacteria in the bennie mix, I am pretty certain it turns green in the presence of light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofertilizer

Disambiguator · Jun 3, 2012

Cyanobacteria is cultured for agricultural use and would have been my first, best guess for green algae as well. I don't think it's in any of Caps microbe mixes unless it's been recently added or I've missed something. I have a boatload of info on it.

catdaddy · Jun 3, 2012

does anyone know where to find alfalfa meal? thanks in advance.

Disambiguator · Jun 3, 2012

I use google, myself.

click80 · Jun 3, 2012

I was guessing...I thought that all nitrogen fixating bacteria are cyanobacteria.I forgot Rhizobia is also. I think that's in it.

click80 · Jun 3, 2012

catdaddy said:
does anyone know where to find alfalfa meal? thanks in advance.

Ace Hardware in my area does in my area, they have the Esploma brand...but any garden center or ag supply I would think....

catdaddy · Jun 3, 2012

Click thanks

click80 · Jun 3, 2012

yuppers

Disambiguator · Jun 3, 2012

If you're using soybean meal in your tea-
a soybean specific EM that I ran across and have been keeping an eye out for is bacillus circulans Strain HA12. (Bergey’s) 21 strains of protease producing bacteria were isolated from 50,000 initial strains tested and bacillus circulans was, by far, the most active. It’s an aerobe that can completely breakdown and degrade soybean meal in 48 hours.
Don't know if this is too specific for Cap's mix or if it's even available commercially. I find material specific microbe research and testing fascinating.

click80 · Jun 3, 2012

<---Me too...I think Microbes that have enzyme kinetics (?) activity, whatever, to that factor are probably great in Bokashi or Bioremediation and I can't think of any reason it would not be the same in tea's.

Love it too. I stay up every night going back through my college Chem 1a and Micro. I watch/listen to a Biology course from Berkeley 1A and 1B on iTunes University while I am in grow room during days.

Tea Recipe

Tea Recipe

click80

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El Cerebro

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El Cerebro

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click80

click80

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

click80

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catdaddy

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click80

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catdaddy

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