teen plant spider mite and preflowering troubles

[Califlower]

I've had spider mites 2 maybe 3 times I guess in quite a few years time. In all cases I just (indoor) lowered day temp to 70-71 and ran night temps just below 70 (68). Technically with this temp range some other predators don't live either. It does not kill them, just prevents eggs from hatching. Can't remember where I read it though. I know it won't help for outside, but maybe for the future. Easiest way I know to do it.

p.s.- I did try the specific ladybug type that eats spider mites once. but most just got stuck in hoods / exhaust. doh!

I should say I maybe was getting paranoid about this particular plant because I didn't confirm with a scope the mites are really back, I just looked at the leaves.

Anyway, it is outside and the temps go down to 55 at night, so...

However for the brief time this girl was in the closet with other clones, the mites got into them. I sprayed the Safer End All a few times (with 4-7 days in between) thinking they were gone, but, nope!

The product said don't allow run-off, but I did. So, I seem to miss some, or they are resistant, or something.

I looked in a catalog and saw foggers. Anyone try a fogger?

As far as the mite destroyer beetles, I saw screens for your duct work you can use to keep bugs out. My closet is more amateur, I just have a fan blowing and crack the door for exhaust. I was looking up predatory mites, and they seem cool too, but I don't know if I will try them. There are several species to pick from.

 

[Califlower]

Half the clones under the T12 lights are now showing preflowers. I wonder if the warm white bulb is not such a good idea. Now I have them all under 2 T5's. They are a bit tall, so maybe I will top these. I think more than 20" under the T5's is too tall for canopy penetration.

 

[Seamaiden]

Are they getting root bound? Double check your timers. I personally haven't found that mixing warmer or lower Kelvin rated bulbs with cooler bulbs to cause flowering.

Also, have you done the isopropryl+water every three days for two full weeks? Once I got it down the method has never let me down.

I have found that for temperatures to really affect mites and production, you're going to have to go a good 10*F-15*F than what's being suggested, down into the 60s for daytime and 50s at night. And tha is going to result in fairly crappy buds, it's just like if you try to flower and it's too hot.

I agree with you on the height, btw, I also think 20" is just too tall for a T5 to penetrate the canopy well. You could just super-crop them, too, instead of topping.

 

[Califlower]

Are they getting root bound? Double check your timers. I personally haven't found that mixing warmer or lower Kelvin rated bulbs with cooler bulbs to cause flowering.

I don't think they are getting root bound, but I will double check, and the timers, thanks :) It's good to know it probably wasn't the temps of the bulbs.

Also, have you done the isopropryl+water every three days for two full weeks? Once I got it down the method has never let me down.

No, but since you have had good luck with it, that's significant to me. Do you think it can take out these two spotted mite fuckers, I was reading they are nasty. I actually got some Monterey Neem Oil concentrate - mixed 1 tbsp for 25 fl. oz. and sprayed the ladies earlier. They also were getting some powdery mildew, so it was good for that too. I will try the 1:1 alcohol thing too. Is it also good for the PM?

I have found that for temperatures to really affect mites and production, you're going to have to go a good 10*F-15*F than what's being suggested, down into the 60s for daytime and 50s at night. And tha is going to result in fairly crappy buds, it's just like if you try to flower and it's too hot.

Thanks for that info.

I agree with you on the height, btw, I also think 20" is just too tall for a T5 to penetrate the canopy well. You could just super-crop them, too, instead of topping.

defoliate?

 

[Seamaiden]

I haven't used the iso for PM, but caregiverken has and he says it works well. You can certainly alternate with those treatments, too, if you like. I know the treatment can take care of the two-spotted mites, far more reliably than the miticides I used when I first started growing, too, since they cannot build up a resistance like they can to Forbid, Floramite and Avid.

Super-cropping is just pinching the stem so it stays bent over but without breaking the xylem. The plant's growth will correct within a few hours to a day and if that super-cropped branch is parallel to the ground, it will make new colas at each bud site.

 

[Califlower]

Cool! But about the alcohol, I can buy 70% or 90% isoprpyl alcohol, which do you use for the 1:1?

I think the mites can become resistant to organically derived pesticides like pyrethrins also. I used to think the spray with the pyrethrin was the way to go from reading certain material which is becoming out of date. I like the idea of the IPA mix. I think the neem should work too if applied correctly.

Ahhh... nice info on the super-cropping. :)

 

[Seamaiden]

I use either because I can't reliably find the 91% locally.

In one of my Facebook groups there was a grower on there who was using something like 15-30mls of isopropyl/gallon of water for treating mites and he said it works just fine. That level seems awfully low to me and I haven't tried it (yet), but I very well may if "allowed" an opportunity.

You're very welcome! I first learned about it by being rough with some plants, the stems were bent without being snapped, I taped it, the plant grew back up and out of it and THEN I learned, Oh, it's a canopy control technique that's been known about for a while. The things ya learn!

If I recollect, babaG posted something about resistance to various organic products in mites, and according to that, they do not become resistant to Azamax/Azatrol. Unfortunately, for outdoor use? That stuff is prohibitively expensive.

 

[Califlower]

I tried it on one and it cracked, I taped it, I guess it will be that way now, lol. But, I tried another and it bent and is righting itself over many hours as you said.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yeah, sometimes they crack, so I'll tape 'em up.

 

[Califlower]

Then an 18/6 should work just fine. The big thing is that getting it back to a normal growing state takes time, several weeks in my experience. The best way I've found to monitor what's happening and where the plant is at, in terms of growth phase (vegetative vs regenerative/flowering) is to look at the number of lobes on each new leaf.

Basically, it goes like this (when going back to vegetative phase): You start seeing the plant throw triple-lobed/bladed leaves. Assuming the plant is on a veg lighting schedule, after about two weeks it'll start putting out single lobed leaves. That's ok, watch it do that for about two weeks. After that, it'll start pushing out the triples again, that phase takes approximately another two weeks. After *that* you should start seeing normal growth of 5, 7, 9 lobes on each leaf, and then you know the plant's growing normally.

Recently all my different clone strains started preflowering for some reason. They were under T12s but slightly off to the side. 18/6. A week or so ago I put them under 2 white T5s. Maybe they will stop now if they get good lighting. Does topping or any kind of pruning help nudge their hormones back to veg at all? I have seen some 3 bladed leaves on these plants, but not at the growth tips right now. In a couple weeks I want to put them all outside, but I don't want them to start really flowering, so I'm nervous and maybe I should wait until they get back to veg. Maybe somehow cuts from these clones will get back to veg more quickly than a larger plant.

Now a whole different set of clone I got from my friend in my same area, but just the next valley over (less coastal, less marine layer, warmer, but not super hot). He had them outside, so I kept them outside and planted them in planter boxes. Well these girls also are deciding to flower. Last year I put clones out mid-June and they worked out fine, no early flowering issues. So I'm getting kind of worried, but I have two seedlings from some bagseed that might be ok. I put them outside a day after they sprouted in my dark kitchen cupboard.

I forgot to ask, what happens to the preflowers? Do they wither?

Thanks!

 

[Seamaiden]

Alfalfa tea can help a lot, as can adding a really strong push of nitrogen. Are they root bound at all? If so, prune the roots. If not, wait til August and then put them outside to finish, if you think that will work in your scenario. And since you have more than one, then you can hold some back and put others out, just to see what happens. Worst case scenario you don't like what you see and you have to put them back into a vegging phase.

Where are the triple-lobed leaves? If they're mid-plant, then it's grown out of the phase and you should be ok.

Hopefully with the gifted clones you're so close to the equinox that they'll simply continue to flower. If that person had any kind of supplemental lighting on them, you *could* try adding it back, but if it's been a few days to a week it may be too late to bother.

If you're talking about the little calyxes that form at the base of each branch, but that don't form a bud, they just stay there. They don't grow and they don't wither up. When I'm trimming I'm always sure to strip them from the stalks because they'll make hash or oil just fine.

 

[Califlower]

Thanks for all that advice!

They are not root bound, I could try alfalfa tea, and I have some Fox Farm Grow Big liquid fertilizer left over from last year.

But yes, they are single calyxes that form at each branch node! Some of these plants got those quite recently, before the new lights. But if it gets out of the preflower phase, then the new growth will not have those calyxes, right? As far as the plant with the three lobes, they are about 3/4 up the plant, so hopefully it is fine. I wondered last year when trimming, if those solitary calyxes had some special name in the lingo.

For the alfalfa tea, I assume you brew it differently than for herbal tea for drinking. I found some web references to using 1 cup in 5 gallons water, and maybe 3 tbps epsom salts, then let sit for 3-4 days, then use?

Yup hopefully those clones will keep flowering, too late to do much else! :)

 

[Califlower]

My friend puts clones out in the Winter, and since it is a mild climate, they veg a little then have a little Spring flowering. He then harvests that and the plants re-veg. Do you think such a thing would work this time of year, in regard to the little clones from my friend outside that are flowering?

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, I think it would work well as a light deprivation. I've never successfully revegged a plant I've flowered out, though.

Thanks for all that advice!

They are not root bound, I could try alfalfa tea, and I have some Fox Farm Grow Big liquid fertilizer left over from last year.

But yes, they are single calyxes that form at each branch node! Some of these plants got those quite recently, before the new lights. But if it gets out of the preflower phase, then the new growth will not have those calyxes, right? As far as the plant with the three lobes, they are about 3/4 up the plant, so hopefully it is fine. I wondered last year when trimming, if those solitary calyxes had some special name in the lingo.

For the alfalfa tea, I assume you brew it differently than for herbal tea for drinking. I found some web references to using 1 cup in 5 gallons water, and maybe 3 tbps epsom salts, then let sit for 3-4 days, then use?

Yup hopefully those clones will keep flowering, too late to do much else! :)

My recipe is even simpler. A handful of hay into about a half gallon of warm water (scale up or down as needed), steeped for 30-60mins. You could do the brew, but it doesn't need the Epsom salts as far as I know.

IMO, letting it set for a few days makes it more of a fermented plant juice, and in that case you might want to add a bit of sugar to get some microbes going. Be warned if you do decide to go for a longer brew: IT STINKS!! You might even want to wear gloves when handling it, some smells can be difficult to wash off.

 

[Dunge]

Are you sure your plants are flowering?
I don't think single flowers are indication of anything but sex.
I determine a flowering phase as when pistols start to grow out of the apical meristem (growing tip).

 

[Califlower]

Are you sure your plants are flowering?
I don't think single flowers are indication of anything but sex.
I determine a flowering phase as when pistols start to grow out of the apical meristem (growing tip).

When you see preflowers, do you figure flowering is 2-3 weeks away tops? Yeah, some didn't flower, some did, but all different strains.

By the way, someone told me they tried a cure for PM and it worked in one day - a 2:3 ratio of milk:water solution.