The best thing to do? Help!

[Nanni70]

What's the best thing to do?
1 - Light mix + transplant in bat mix final pot + bb Bloom in flowering
2- Batmix from start to finish + Bloom in flowering
3- Light mix from start to finish + bb fish mix 2ml/l during veg and 1ml/lt during flower + Bloom during flower

I'm talking about autoflowers totally outdoor

 

[Ina]

3:)Because most of the autos don't need much for veg so light with lots of perlite should be enough.......And I am not familiar with bat mix but i suppose it has guano in it?could be hot may be especially for auto baby?Transplanting can be done but it can reduce the size of the plant if not done in time…...

 

[Nanni70]

3:)Because most of the autos don't need much for veg so light with lots of perlite should be enough.......And I am not familiar with bat mix but i suppose it has guano in it?could be hot may be especially for auto baby?Transplanting can be done but it can reduce the size of the plant if not done in time…...

What light mix would you suggest me?

 

[oldskol4evr]

What light mix would you suggest me?

1:1:1 peat moss ,compost ,perlite,easy mix and feed when needed this is a base to start with ,fluffy and drains well

 

[Ina]

I don't know I use all kinds of local peat bags and trying to make my own mixes….May be Plagron instead of Bio bizz,i think their soil is better.....Other members will know better,i don't buy these very often,once or twice....I had the Canna(but which one I don't remember)it was also really nice for using without adding any new amendments.....:)

 

[az2000]

What light mix would you suggest me?

I've grown autos in 50-60% Pro-Mix HP (which contains 35% perlite itself), 20-25% Kellogg Patio Plus, 20-25% Perlite. I add 1.5 Tbsp dolomite lime per gallon of mix.[1] I soak the mixed soil once, and let it dry before using it.

I like that mix because it's light and airy, drains/drys well. When the plant grows into a container, it takes 2-3 days between waterings. (If I mix it more toward the 60% Pro-Mix side, it dries closer to 2 days.). I like this better than Pro-Mix HP by itself because it adds some soil. By itself, Pro-Mix is organically inert. I think having organically active soil makes a difference. (I use soil nutrients, not hydro nutrients.).

[1] Fertilome Hy-Yeild Agricultural Lime. However, dolomitic lime is a bit heavy with magnesium (1.62 : 1 rato of elemental Ca to Mg.). I mix it with calcitic lime to get a better ratio. 3 parts dolomitic lime to 1 part calcitic gives a 2:1 ratio elemental Ca to Mg. (1 part to 1 part gives a 3:1 ratio.).

 

[Nanni70]

I've grown autos in 50-60% Pro-Mix HP (which contains 35% perlite itself), 20-25% Kellogg Patio Plus, 20-25% Perlite. I add 1.5 Tbsp dolomite lime per gallon of mix.[1] I soak the mixed soil once, and let it dry before using it.

I like that mix because it's light and airy, drains/drys well. When the plant grows into a container, it takes 2-3 days between waterings. (If I mix it more toward the 60% Pro-Mix side, it dries closer to 2 days.). I like this better than Pro-Mix HP by itself because it adds some soil. By itself, Pro-Mix is organically inert. I think having organically active soil makes a difference. (I use soil nutrients, not hydro nutrients.).

[1] Fertilome Hy-Yeild Agricultural Lime. However, dolomitic lime is a bit heavy with magnesium (1.62 : 1 rato of elemental Ca to Mg.). I mix it with calcitic lime to get a better ratio. 3 parts dolomitic lime to 1 part calcitic gives a 2:1 ratio elemental Ca to Mg. (1 part to 1 part gives a 3:1 ratio.).

Hm. Do you know any good pre-mixed ready to use light mix?
And, do i need to add Epsom salts for cal-mag or fish mix Is good enough alone?

 

[az2000]

Hm. Do you know any good pre-mixed ready to use light mix?

I'm not familiar with any. Most bagged soils seem heavy, slow-drying. Almost everyone has to add substantial amounts of perlite. Black Gold Organic potting mix might be good. (But, probably need perlite added. I think cannabis is unique in benefiting from fast wet/dry cycles. Even when I grew Pro-Mix HP as soilless, I added 25% perlite. The amount of perlite you add to a soil depends on the lighting you use. Radiant heat can dry the soil faster. If you use HPS, for example, you probably wouldn't add perlite the way I did.).

Kellogg makes a Palm and Cactus potting mix which looks like an interesting consistency. I've been wanting to grow a plant in it to see how it works. To me, it looks ideal. Maybe with peat and perlite adde.

And, do i need to add Epsom salts for cal-mag or fish mix Is good enough alone?

If you grow in soil, I wouldn't use "calmag." Epsom salt will treat Mg def. Gypsum will treat Ca def.

I didn't understand how fish-mix fits into this. But, I would try to use organic sources of nutrients as much as I can (compared to synthetic). Healthier for the soil microbes. That's one reason I add some soil to my Pro-Mix, to create something more hospitable to organic activity. Oldskolver's use of compost is essentially the same thing. Maybe better because it won't have the bark.

I don't like any "out of the box" products for growing cannabis. For example, I mix my own fertilizers to get custom NPK ratios. That's basically what the multi-bottle "lineups" do for you. But, they abstract it as "2ml of the blue stuff, 5 ml of the red stuff." You don't really know what NPK ratios you're feeding. And, you pay for those proprietary schedules, the cartoon labels, etc. I have a spreadsheet that I can mix off-the-shelf products to a specific NPK ratio & strength. (I can give you a link to it if you want to play with that.). But, if you're new to growing, I'd just use a 1-1-1 ratio all the way through. Cannabis grows fine that way. Tinkering with the ratio doesn't do much (tends to cause problems). Keep it simple when you start.

EDIT: I just noticed you said you're going to grow outdoors. Sorry. I'm talking strictly indoors. I don't know how much o my thoughts would apply to outdoors.

 

[Nanni70]

I'm not familiar with any. Most bagged soils seem heavy, slow-drying. Almost everyone has to add substantial amounts of perlite. Black Gold Organic potting mix might be good. (But, probably need perlite added. I think cannabis is unique in benefiting from fast wet/dry cycles. Even when I grew Pro-Mix HP as soilless, I added 25% perlite. The amount of perlite you add to a soil depends on the lighting you use. Radiant heat can dry the soil faster. If you use HPS, for example, you probably wouldn't add perlite the way I did.).

Kellogg makes a Palm and Cactus potting mix which looks like an interesting consistency. I've been wanting to grow a plant in it to see how it works. To me, it looks ideal. Maybe with peat and perlite adde.



If you grow in soil, I wouldn't use "calmag." Epsom salt will treat Mg def. Gypsum will treat Ca def.

I didn't understand how fish-mix fits into this. But, I would try to use organic sources of nutrients as much as I can (compared to synthetic). Healthier for the soil microbes. That's one reason I add some soil to my Pro-Mix, to create something more hospitable to organic activity. Oldskolver's use of compost is essentially the same thing. Maybe better because it won't have the bark.

I don't like any "out of the box" products for growing cannabis. For example, I mix my own fertilizers to get custom NPK ratios. That's basically what the multi-bottle "lineups" do for you. But, they abstract it as "2ml of the blue stuff, 5 ml of the red stuff." You don't really know what NPK ratios you're feeding. And, you pay for those proprietary schedules, the cartoon labels, etc. I have a spreadsheet that I can mix off-the-shelf products to a specific NPK ratio & strength. (I can give you a link to it if you want to play with that.). But, if you're new to growing, I'd just use a 1-1-1 ratio all the way through. Cannabis grows fine that way. Tinkering with the ratio doesn't do much (tends to cause problems). Keep it simple when you start.

EDIT: I just noticed you said you're going to grow outdoors. Sorry. I'm talking strictly indoors. I don't know how much o my thoughts would apply to outdoors.

I think i'm gonna need fish mix cause i want to grow in light soil avoiding transplant in a pre-fertilized soil so i Need some extra nutes in It.
Cal-mag deficency Is a thing in led indoor grow. What about outdoor? I haven't read any

 

[az2000]

I think i'm gonna need fish mix cause i want to grow in light soil avoiding transplant in a pre-fertilized soil so i Need some extra nutes in It.

Light soils have little nutirents. They'll need everything. If you're referring to fish emulson, that's not balanced for the entire grow. It's good stuff. But, you may need to feed other things. A product with an NPK ratio of 1-1-1 (eg. 12-12-12 on the label) would be safe to use through the grow, simple, etc. MiracleGro Tomato is 1-1-1.2 (cannabis likes slightly high K through the grow.). I've used it and it works great. But, I like Grow More Sea Grow (16-16-16). It's more organic sources of nutrients.

Fish emulsion is mostly N. It's good to use. But, you still need P & K (and trace minerals). You could feed Alaska Kelp for the trace minerals. But, I think it has auxins in it. I feel like I get stretch in veg when I use it. I only use it in late'ish flower. You won't be disappointed if you just use Sea Grow (or even MG Tomato. People hate MG, primarily for MG's hot soils. But, the Tomato fertilizer product works. I've used it. 1/2 tsp/gal. You can feed it heavy without burning the plant. But, you'll get N toxicity. I went over 1tsp/gal and no burn. 1/2 to 5/8 tsp in veg. Maybe 5/8 to 3/4 in flower.). It's simple.

Cal-mag deficency Is a thing in led indoor grow. What about outdoor? I haven't read any

Not to be pedantic,but there's no such thing as a calmag deficiency. There is Ca deficiency, and Mg deficency. You can treat those individually with gypsum and epsom salt. "Calmag" products were originally for hydro. They work in soil, but calcium nitrate is very acidic. Some "calmag" products are made from carbonates. One I looked at seemed to be in a vinegar suspension (again, acidic, I think). But, why not just treat the specific problem? Friendlier to the microbes in the soil, etc. (There's worse things you can do than use "calmag." But, I'm just saying. I think it's one of those "everyone does it" sort of things. Maybe there's better ways. Less expensive ways.).

 

[oldskol4evr]

I don't know I use all kinds of local peat bags and trying to make my own mixes….May be Plagron instead of Bio bizz,i think their soil is better.....Other members will know better,i don't buy these very often,once or twice....I had the Canna(but which one I don't remember)it was also really nice for using without adding any new amendments.....:)

really depends on how you want to use it,the recipe i discribed was if you are gonna force feed them for product,which bring problems in my opinion,but same mix with some ewc,kelp,bone meal would go a good run with water only,add some myco when transplanting to get the critters happy in the soil,you could add blood meal too,i prefer to add it as a top scrath,blood and bone will do a hell of job also organic matter is your compost

 

[oldskol4evr]

I've grown autos in 50-60% Pro-Mix HP (which contains 35% perlite itself), 20-25% Kellogg Patio Plus, 20-25% Perlite. I add 1.5 Tbsp dolomite lime per gallon of mix.[1] I soak the mixed soil once, and let it dry before using it.

I like that mix because it's light and airy, drains/drys well. When the plant grows into a container, it takes 2-3 days between waterings. (If I mix it more toward the 60% Pro-Mix side, it dries closer to 2 days.). I like this better than Pro-Mix HP by itself because it adds some soil. By itself, Pro-Mix is organically inert. I think having organically active soil makes a difference. (I use soil nutrients, not hydro nutrients.).

[1] Fertilome Hy-Yeild Agricultural Lime. However, dolomitic lime is a bit heavy with magnesium (1.62 : 1 rato of elemental Ca to Mg.). I mix it with calcitic lime to get a better ratio. 3 parts dolomitic lime to 1 part calcitic gives a 2:1 ratio elemental Ca to Mg. (1 part to 1 part gives a 3:1 ratio.).

how much is inmobile and mobile for cation exchange,thats a lot of lime either way,your gonna run 7 on ph i find that to high in extreme heats,i think with clay you can get better calcium,with a touch of wood ash you get strong plants that dont look like melted wax at heat of day,i focus more on P&K granular phosphrus 8 inch deep along with potash for K,there is no leaching at that depth that would runoff into the water shed,no way i could run those number in my envoriment and temps,the ca and mg seems like it would tie up

 

[Ina]

I thought may be Nanni70 is looking for something ready to use from the bag but I am not sure which soil is better used that way.....O,your recipe is classic,I think with autos it wont need much to add,may be just something for flowering.....

 

[az2000]

how much is inmobile and mobile for cation exchange,thats a lot of lime either way,your gonna run 7 on ph i find that to high in extreme heats, ... no way i could run those number in my envoriment and temps,the ca and mg seems like it would tie up

Never had a problem. I've seen lots of people saying they add 1-2 Tbsp dolomite per gallon of soil. That's how I arrived at 1.5 Tbsp/gal. It was halfway between the 1 & 2 amounts I saw people using. :) The only difference is that I replace some dolomite with calcitic, to get a better Ca:Mg ratio than dolomite alone.

I have a fairly serious soil PH probe (Control Wizard Accurate 8, costs about $60 USD). I've never seen a ph problem. If anything, I tend to feed too heavy and get salt buildup. When that happens, I see the runoff ppms rising (1800 and higher). As it reaches those numbers, I see the soil probe showing greater acidity. (At around 2500ppm I get lockout, and very acid soil).

I've never seen the soil be too high ph. I do see it swing a full point or more from wet to dry. When dry it can be around 7ph. When wet, 6ph. So, it seems like a good range. Never have any problems (except when I wasn't aware of I was overfeeding.).

 

[oldskol4evr]

I thought may be Nanni70 is looking for something ready to use from the bag but I am not sure which soil is better used that way.....O,your recipe is classic,I think with autos it wont need much to add,may be just something for flowering.....

granny would love the kellog line,real good stuff,be warned loaded with ewc and smell like shhhhhhhit hahaahh,good stuff though,you should take her garden and get some gypsum and bust that clay a bit,that red soil is really good stuff i prefer it myself especially for melons hahah,how big is her plot,tell you what i just done this year on my 100 sq ft ground bed,i put 10 lbs gypsum on it,dug it under and watered,waited 3 weeks and clay had busted down about 3 inches deep,so i added 10 more pounds with that application i also added 30 lbs soft rock phosphate,10 lbs kelp,10 lbs 0-46-0 phosphurus and girl my shit banged by spring,im on my second stand corn and also have 15 or so okra plants rocking,what i did was all shovel and hand,turned it 4 times,in bettween turns i added 3 bails peat moss,finally turn was done with a rented rotiller,that thing made me sick,i had about 40 hrs shovel and foot and rotiller went 12 in deep and finished the whole bed in 30 min ,shit,i rented it from home depot,i dont like tilling when soil is right just stick it push shovel forward and done better for worms and dont disturb soil life as bad,got all the stuff from kiss organic pretty cheap buying at bulk,all that stuff laying around probally save you money too,dont forget about wood ash in there either,potassium alone will exchange half what you put in in a matter of 6 months,so one you have the cation rates right all you have to do is add back what it uptake in last grow

 

[oldskol4evr]

Never had a problem. I've seen lots of people saying they add 1-2 Tbsp dolomite per gallon of soil. That's how I arrived at 1.5 Tbsp/gal. It was halfway between the 1 & 2 amounts I saw people using. :) The only difference is that I replace some dolomite with calcitic, to get a better Ca:Mg ratio than dolomite alone.

I have a fairly serious soil PH probe (Control Wizard Accurate 8, costs about $60 USD). I've never seen a ph problem. If anything, I tend to feed too heavy and get salt buildup. When that happens, I see the runoff ppms rising (1800 and higher). As it reaches those numbers, I see the soil probe showing greater acidity. (At around 2500ppm I get lockout, and very acid soil).

I've never seen the soil be too high ph. I do see it swing a full point or more from wet to dry. When dry it can be around 7ph. When wet, 6ph. So, it seems like a good range. Never have any problems (except when I wasn't aware of I was overfeeding.).

i just dont like lime,woodash works so much better and doesnt collide with bone meal,i use bone and gypsum and potash to take care all that end,with wood ash if i wont to drop ph a bit for a plant requiring lower that 7ph i add peat in to drop it,with lime it takes forever to break down to drop it,acidfier would be easier but easier can kill ya if you add to much shit is toxic,sulfur is also needed but at very small rate,pretty much just to put it there

 

[az2000]

i just dont like lime,woodash works so much better and doesnt collide with bone meal,i use bone and gypsum and potash to take care all that end,with wood ash if i wont to drop ph a bit for a plant requiring lower that 7ph i add peat in to drop it,with lime it takes forever to break down to drop it,acidfier would be easier but easier can kill ya if you add to much shit is toxic,sulfur is also needed but at very small rate,pretty much just to put it there

I stumbled onto what I do, and afraid to change it much. If I want to lower the ph of my soil... I feed more. :) Seriously, everything seems to be in balance that way. I think I'm more in the force-feeding camp. I started with soilless and GH Flora 3part (that's definitely force feeding). I went to soil. But, very light soil. I continue to push the nutrients to the limit. I balance ppm strength with volume of runoff. I don't use synthetic nutes now. I use a product made for soil (I'm sure it's not entirely organic. But, it's *far* from entirely synthetic.). I supplement with organic things like fish emulsion, blood meal, bat guano. I try to have a mind toward soil health, microbe health. But... I'm still a force feeder.

It's funny how it's worked out. It seems like I got to this point by random luck. Like my 1.5 Tbsp/gal dolomite. Before I grew anything, I googled a lot. Saw some people saying 1Tbsp. Some said 2. I split the difference -- and never thought about it again (other than improving the Ca:Mg ratio). It seems like everything I've done has been like that. It surprises me that I got to a system that feels like a glove. (I had some serious problems with overfeeding before I realized the runoff ppm gave visibility into that. And then I noticed the runoff ppms tracked the soil probe's ph. At that point, everything became easy. That's when I stopped phing my nutrients. It seemed like I knew the levers to pull to make things move the way I wanted them.).

I'd like to experiment with a total/living soil (teas only). And, I'd like to experiment with Kellogg Palm & Cactus potting mix (its consistency looks good to me). Also want to try Fox Farms just to be able to say I tried it. (So many people use it.). But, then I feel like I'm tempting fate. "Why mess with something that works?" I should make myself do these things in just one container. (I tend to think I have to do the entire grow the same way. I should experiment more, just for the fun of it -- while still doing what I do.).

 

[oldskol4evr]

I stumbled onto what I do, and afraid to change it much. If I want to lower the ph of my soil... I feed more. :) Seriously, everything seems to be in balance that way. I think I'm more in the force-feeding camp. I started with soilless and GH Flora 3part (that's definitely force feeding). I went to soil. But, very light soil. I continue to push the nutrients to the limit. I balance ppm strength with volume of runoff. I don't use synthetic nutes now. I use a product made for soil (I'm sure it's not entirely organic. But, it's *far* from entirely synthetic.). I supplement with organic things like fish emulsion, blood meal, bat guano. I try to have a mind toward soil health, microbe health. But... I'm still a force feeder.

It's funny how it's worked out. It seems like I got to this point by random luck. Like my 1.5 Tbsp/gal dolomite. Before I grew anything, I googled a lot. Saw some people saying 1Tbsp. Some said 2. I split the difference -- and never thought about it again (other than improving the Ca:Mg ratio). It seems like everything I've done has been like that. It surprises me that I got to a system that feels like a glove. (I had some serious problems with overfeeding before I realized the runoff ppm gave visibility into that. And then I noticed the runoff ppms tracked the soil probe's ph. At that point, everything became easy. That's when I stopped phing my nutrients. It seemed like I knew the levers to pull to make things move the way I wanted them.).

I'd like to experiment with a total/living soil (teas only). And, I'd like to experiment with Kellogg Palm & Cactus potting mix (its consistency looks good to me). Also want to try Fox Farms just to be able to say I tried it. (So many people use it.). But, then I feel like I'm tempting fate. "Why mess with something that works?" I should make myself do these things in just one container. (I tend to think I have to do the entire grow the same way. I should experiment more, just for the fun of it -- while still doing what I do.).

thats how you do it,i dabble with a lot,i got a bottom garden that works my ass off,then on top the hill at the house i have about 25 18 gal containers for relaxation hahahah that mama garden ,all in the tent is secret shhhh,my medicine i just get bag of ocean forest,last 2 grows done the kellogs easy to get and cheaper then ocean,all my outdoor stuff i made myself,i live on a rock,i dont even have a place to lay my dogs down to sleep when they go,damn rock ,i built every bit and my shovel,we bonded,me and my shovel my shovel and me we get together awesomly hahaah,i really need to invest in a cement mixer,that why i mentioned the clay and potash,without it my plants melt 8 months a year is freaking summer,this year for the last 2 months has been a 100 just teasing us for august and 107 hahahah,forgot about the hydro outdoors ,no pum or air just nutrients in a 33 gal trash can trying to grow cucumbers,last plant damped off on me,not soil no more boys hahahh thats what im dabbling with right now,that could save me so much space each year,melons and pumpkins is next on list when i figure it out hahah

 

[az2000]

i live on a rock,i dont even have a place to lay my dogs down to sleep when they go,

Do you get high with your dogs? You probably know dogs have an endocannabanoid system (like humans). They have the receptors for it.

I always have a foster dog with me (I have two that I kept for myself). I foster unadoptable dogs. Sometimes they can't even be handled at the shelter. I always find a home for them. I think cannabis plays a big role in rehabilitating them. I gently blow the smoke in their ears. I don't seal my mouth against their ear. You have to be careful of the pressure. I blow gently/slowly. The excess goes out to the side. I'll finish with the remainder in their face (some like it that way, some don't. You gotta be careful with strange dogs.).

I see very fast changes in them. It helps them reach a different state of mind, relaxation. I'm often referred to as "the dog whisperer" at the shelter because I move the difficult dogs. Nobody knows how literal that is. :) I'm afraid to tell anyone. I'm sure someone would scream "abuse!" I've done it for years. I've moved dogs in 3-4 weeks that take other fosters months. I don't think it's me.

Some dogs like a lot. I've had some that will come running up when I strike the lighter. One would come and push the pipe (laying on the coffee table) with his nose, and look at me. (I've had a couple who didn't like it. I'd give them some once every day or two. I didn't make it a regular routine.).

 

[Ina]

granny would love the kellog line,real good stuff,be warned loaded with ewc and smell like shhhhhhhit hahaahh,good stuff though,you should take her garden and get some gypsum and bust that clay a bit,that red soil is really good stuff i prefer it myself especially for melons hahah,how big is her plot,tell you what i just done this year on my 100 sq ft ground bed,i put 10 lbs gypsum on it,dug it under and watered,waited 3 weeks and clay had busted down about 3 inches deep,so i added 10 more pounds with that application i also added 30 lbs soft rock phosphate,10 lbs kelp,10 lbs 0-46-0 phosphurus and girl my shit banged by spring,im on my second stand corn and also have 15 or so okra plants rocking,what i did was all shovel and hand,turned it 4 times,in bettween turns i added 3 bails peat moss,finally turn was done with a rented rotiller,that thing made me sick,i had about 40 hrs shovel and foot and rotiller went 12 in deep and finished the whole bed in 30 min ,shit,i rented it from home depot,i dont like tilling when soil is right just stick it push shovel forward and done better for worms and dont disturb soil life as bad,got all the stuff from kiss organic pretty cheap buying at bulk,all that stuff laying around probally save you money too,dont forget about wood ash in there either,potassium alone will exchange half what you put in in a matter of 6 months,so one you have the cation rates right all you have to do is add back what it uptake in last grow

Absolutely!Like!:)I also have my plan for that garden,similar with yours(I have stones,ashes,alfalfa on hand,also different manures but i'm still learning) but the thing is granny just don't wanna listen,we always argue and she want things done her way:D She doesn't want to mulch(with hole barn of alfalfa and goat shit sitting ),she believes the living mulch will drink the water from the cultural plants?!So we water and the water goes away in the cracks of the soil!:(What a waste!Every other day everything is dry....But she makes teas that i steal and use for the guerilla:DAnd she teached me many things about gardening so I should be respectful:)In the other garden my mother in law repeats the same,her soil is absolute red clay that can be improved easily,she has rabbits and chickens there......but she listen to her mother(that is granny)and I am...you know the wife of their son so we have to argue a little:)But she is more opened for innovations:)