The PH Thread.....Runoff PH??

[Aqua Man]

It can be a frustrating world in soil lol. I'm going the other way and moving to hydro to get more control. Hydro at least has more absolutes, soil can be a guessing game at the best of times.

I was going to switch in spring but now I have another grow I'm using soil. It's actually the same mix @Jimster gave me for my mother plants. So far it's been incredibly easy. 2 weeks into flower and fed once at 400ppm. The plant are in perfect shape. Noticeably slower than hydro but none the less they look immaculate. Also under 1000w HPS. I have 2 complete opposite grows. Did a slurry test to start and adjust the soil ph to 6.4 I have someone watering and I pop in once a week or so. Not through a full grow yet but I don't foresee any issues.

 

[cemchris]

Doesnt most peat based media already have a ton of lime in it to combat the low PH?

 

[nicolajanjak]

ph of the runoff .. how i see it .. sometimes easier to say than to do for me lol

if your runoff PH comes more acidic than the PH of the feed, that probably means you have salt accumulations ( overfertilizing ..) these salts accumulated in the medium acidify it

ideally think the ph of the runoff must be a bit higher than the ph of the feed ... ex: feed: ph 5.8 runoff:6.0

try to keep a runoff EC under 1.5 ms ... feeding more will lead to accumulations IMO .. except if your room is dialed like a formula 1 . and even 1.5 would be enough in bloom

 

[Edinburgh]

my tap waters ph is a bit over 7, my clear runoff is 6.2 consistently, it creeps up to 6.5 max in flower, it depends on what is coming out of your tap, a mild solution of baking soda will raise your ph, a very mild solution of waterd down white vinegar will lower it, if you have hard water you can distill it, or buy water at the store, or go buy something that will raise or lower your ph, i mentioned baking soda and white vinegar beacuse its cheap and really does work, you just have to go real mild.

 

[PipeCarver]

my tap waters ph is a bit over 7, my clear runoff is 6.2 consistently, it creeps up to 6.5 max in flower, it depends on what is coming out of your tap, a mild solution of baking soda will raise your ph, a very mild solution of waterd down white vinegar will lower it, if you have hard water you can distill it, or buy water at the store, or go buy something that will raise or lower your ph, i mentioned baking soda and white vinegar beacuse its cheap and really does work, you just have to go real mild.

I am seeing issues on the leaves on all my plants and I always ph my feed and water to around 6.5 - 6.6 I've fed 3 girls 3 times over 7 weeks 3/3/3mm = 3/5 tsp Micro/Grow/Bloom General Hydroponics 3 part system.
I noticed a problem with new growth on my 3 month old Cherry Bomb plant I'm still vegging. I was advised to check my RO ph and I found it to be at 4.8 ( I'd checked it a week or so earlier and found it to be ast 5,8) on all my plants, to low from what I've learned, here. I lifted the ph of my input water hoping to bring up the ph of the soil / promix but I haven't had success in doing that I still have low soil RO after flushing numerous times. I figured I'd flush out the salts and start fresh.

I flood the fk out of the plant, then let it drain completely 100% run off then do it again . Water shouldn't hurt it as long as it drains I figure. I always have 10 - 20% + run off when I feed or water then wet vac it up. I'm heading out for dolomite if I can find some in something other than a 40lb bag.

I don't have a PPM meter( coming soon I guess) so I can't check that yet. If I didn't have issues with the leaves I wouldn't bothered with any of this but I'd like to have this fixed yesterday because I'd like to turn them asap.

 

[Aqua Man]

I am seeing issues on the leaves on all my plants and I always ph my feed and water to around 6.5 - 6.6 I've fed 3 girls 3 times over 7 weeks 3/3/3mm = 3/5 tsp Micro/Grow/Bloom General Hydroponics 3 part system.
I noticed a problem with new growth on my 3 month old Cherry Bomb plant I'm still vegging. I was advised to check my RO ph and I found it to be at 4.8 ( I'd checked it a week or so earlier and found it to be ast 5,8) on all my plants, to low from what I've learned, here. I lifted the ph of my input water hoping to bring up the ph of the soil / promix but I haven't had success in doing that I still have low soil RO after flushing numerous times. I figured I'd flush out the salts and start fresh.

I flood the fk out of the plant, then let it drain completely 100% run off then do it again . Water shouldn't hurt it as long as it drains I figure. I always have 10 - 20% + run off when I feed or water then wet vac it up. I'm heading out for dolomite if I can find some in something other than a 40lb bag.

I don't have a PPM meter( coming soon I guess) so I can't check that yet. If I didn't have issues with the leaves I wouldn't bothered with any of this but I'd like to have this fixed yesterday because I'd like to turn them asap.

You can't really trust ph of RO water. It has no carbonate or bicarbonate to keep it stable. Literally moving it from your basement that may have CO2 levels of 1200 to the upstairs that may have 500 can slightly alter the ph.

It has no ability to hold a stable. Ph without carbonate or Bicarbonate added. This is not really of concern in soil. When you add the water to the soil the soil will adjust the ph of the water to the ph of the soil.

Adding something like calcium carbonate, dolomite lime even baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will raise the ph of the nutrient solution but also when you feed will stay in the soil and help raise the soil ph.

I'm not going to make suggestions there are some very good soil growers here that will do that.

I just want to explain that the PH of RO water and checking it is absolutely meaningless. It has no ability to alter the ph of anything and anything added to it will change its ph towards what was added.

 

[Caninobis]

Slow down a bit... Is your plant showing signs of nutrient deficiency or burning? Or is it growing ok?

I advise never checking soil ph runoff, you're far better off doing a slurry test. Soiless like coco or rockwool sure, but stuff that has nutrients mixed in it can be very misleading and can cause you to attempt to correct problems that arent actually a problem, and 9 times out of 10 you just make things worse. If the plants are consuming a lot of positively charged nutrients like calcium or potassium, the roots can exude negatively charged hydronium ions that lower ph runof also, doesnt always mean there is a problem.

Nope, no sign of struggle, shes actually growing phenomenally. The few fan leaves that she has because shes only about 3 weeks since she popped out of the dirt are almost doubling in size every day or 2 and she responded very well to my first attempt at a FIM. I've got her in a 1 gallon pot now that shes been in for about a week and her root ball is already starting to fill up the pot so plant health definitely seems to be good.

I did a little bit of research after i asked this question and i found a few people that say the water should be coming out of the soil a little bit lower than what you put in. I just ordered a digital PH meter so that should give me a more accurate reading. I haven't made any adjustments or even attempted to because she is still so very healthy. I was really just wondering if it is a problem that i should keep an eye on.

 

[Caninobis]

I am seeing issues on the leaves on all my plants and I always ph my feed and water to around 6.5 - 6.6 I've fed 3 girls 3 times over 7 weeks 3/3/3mm = 3/5 tsp Micro/Grow/Bloom General Hydroponics 3 part system.
I noticed a problem with new growth on my 3 month old Cherry Bomb plant I'm still vegging. I was advised to check my RO ph and I found it to be at 4.8 ( I'd checked it a week or so earlier and found it to be ast 5,8) on all my plants, to low from what I've learned, here. I lifted the ph of my input water hoping to bring up the ph of the soil / promix but I haven't had success in doing that I still have low soil RO after flushing numerous times. I figured I'd flush out the salts and start fresh.

I flood the fk out of the plant, then let it drain completely 100% run off then do it again . Water shouldn't hurt it as long as it drains I figure. I always have 10 - 20% + run off when I feed or water then wet vac it up. I'm heading out for dolomite if I can find some in something other than a 40lb bag.

I don't have a PPM meter( coming soon I guess) so I can't check that yet. If I didn't have issues with the leaves I wouldn't bothered with any of this but I'd like to have this fixed yesterday because I'd like to turn them asap.

If you're using the GH Flora Series you should check out the Lucas Formula. Thats the nute formula i'm trying this time around and from what i've seen on different forums it seems to have pretty good results for a simple idiot proof nute formula for the beginner/hobby grower. It only uses the FloraMicro and FloraBloom nutes on a 2:1 ration of bloom to micro. Bloom: 16ml/gal. Micro: 8ml/gal.

I'm personally going to start with 8 & 4 ml/gal. and gradually raise it up to the 16/8 just to be safe but the results seem to look great for other growers that have done it!

 

[Jimster]

I was going to switch in spring but now I have another grow I'm using soil. It's actually the same mix @Jimster gave me for my mother plants. So far it's been incredibly easy. 2 weeks into flower and fed once at 400ppm. The plant are in perfect shape. Noticeably slower than hydro but none the less they look immaculate. Also under 1000w HPS. I have 2 complete opposite grows. Did a slurry test to start and adjust the soil ph to 6.4 I have someone watering and I pop in once a week or so. Not through a full grow yet but I don't foresee any issues.

I'm glad to hear that things are working out well for you. How much difference are you seeing between the Promix VS the Hydro method that you used before? I've never tried hydro and haven't messed with my nutrient levels in the Promix for decades. I'm wondering if more often feeding would benefit anything or not. The period between waterings usually keeps buildups to a minimum, but I've been wondering if it would be worthwhile increasing the nutrients... either more nutrients or possibly the same nutrients but more often... maybe every 9 or 10 days instead of what I've been using. I would test it myself, but I have things dialed in pretty well and don't have the gumption to start taking notes and comparing potions. It doesn't get much easier and foolproof, but everything can be improved. I have quite a surplus currently and I don't know if I'm going to do another round of growing or not. Most of my harvest is for personal use, but I can't go thru all that I have in a couple years, so I also give it to some close old friends... but even they can't smoke it all. I have some totally new strains that I'd love to try my hand at, but I gotta find out something to do with all of this extra buds that have accumulated over the grows. Maybe edibles could help in using up the surplus....

 

[Aqua Man]

I'm glad to hear that things are working out well for you. How much difference are you seeing between the Promix VS the Hydro method that you used before? I've never tried hydro and haven't messed with my nutrient levels in the Promix for decades. I'm wondering if more often feeding would benefit anything or not. The period between waterings usually keeps buildups to a minimum, but I've been wondering if it would be worthwhile increasing the nutrients... either more nutrients or possibly the same nutrients but more often... maybe every 9 or 10 days instead of what I've been using. I would test it myself, but I have things dialed in pretty well and don't have the gumption to start taking notes and comparing potions. It doesn't get much easier and foolproof, but everything can be improved. I have quite a surplus currently and I don't know if I'm going to do another round of growing or not. Most of my harvest is for personal use, but I can't go thru all that I have in a couple years, so I also give it to some close old friends... but even they can't smoke it all. I have some totally new strains that I'd love to try my hand at, but I gotta find out something to do with all of this extra buds that have accumulated over the grows. Maybe edibles could help in using up the surplus....

The growth difference is very noticeable between hydro and soil but so is the amount of work out in to make sure thing go right in hydro. I spend close to 20min a day just testing, topping off and misc things in hydro. I go once a week and have a dude watering in between in that soil mix. Plants look perfect I don't think I wanna feed anymore than I have.

If you are asking if the growth rate vs the work are worth it... It's hard to say. I also run alot more equipment with my hydro. Faster growth means things need to be dialed right in.

I started hydro cause I was comfortable as hell with it. Soil seems to be much more friendly to new growers.

 

[Caninobis]

I'm glad to hear that things are working out well for you. How much difference are you seeing between the Promix VS the Hydro method that you used before? I've never tried hydro and haven't messed with my nutrient levels in the Promix for decades. I'm wondering if more often feeding would benefit anything or not. The period between waterings usually keeps buildups to a minimum, but I've been wondering if it would be worthwhile increasing the nutrients... either more nutrients or possibly the same nutrients but more often... maybe every 9 or 10 days instead of what I've been using. I would test it myself, but I have things dialed in pretty well and don't have the gumption to start taking notes and comparing potions. It doesn't get much easier and foolproof, but everything can be improved. I have quite a surplus currently and I don't know if I'm going to do another round of growing or not. Most of my harvest is for personal use, but I can't go thru all that I have in a couple years, so I also give it to some close old friends... but even they can't smoke it all. I have some totally new strains that I'd love to try my hand at, but I gotta find out something to do with all of this extra buds that have accumulated over the grows. Maybe edibles could help in using up the surplus....

What is the soilmix that @Aqua Man mentioned?

 

[Caninobis]

This is what she looks like so far. She was germed end of september and popped out the soil on 10/2 so shes about 22 days old. I feel like growth rate is pretty good but i honestly have no idea what ideal would be for her age.

It looks pretty healthy to me but maybe i'm wrong. What do you guys think? The disfigured leaf is because my light fell on it and the 2 droopies at the bottom happened when i transplanted the peat cube that i sprouted it in to a peat pot and the plant just didn't like it at all so i moved it in to a 1 gallon pot and its been growing pretty well since.

I haven't done any real feedings yet. I soaked the starter pod in a super weak mix of grow nutes and resaturated with superthrive after the seedling sprouted then transplanted into Fox Farm Happy Frog and have watered with Superthrive 2 times since transplanting and just regular water PH down to 6.0-6.5 for the other waterings. Right now shes just in a DIY grow box along side a couple clones i took from a flowering plant to try and monster crop with a couple small LED light bars hanging vertically and a 45 watt LED over head.

 

[Aqua Man]

Looks good and healthy so far won't be long before she needs up potted.

 

[PipeCarver]

You can't really trust ph of RO water. It has no carbonate or bicarbonate to keep it stable. Literally moving it from your basement that may have CO2 levels of 1200 to the upstairs that may have 500 can slightly alter the ph.

It has no ability to hold a stable. Ph without carbonate or Bicarbonate added. This is not really of concern in soil. When you add the water to the soil the soil will adjust the ph of the water to the ph of the soil.

Adding something like calcium carbonate, dolomite lime even baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will raise the ph of the nutrient solution but also when you feed will stay in the soil and help raise the soil ph.

I'm not going to make suggestions there are some very good soil growers here that will do that.

I just want to explain that the PH of RO water and checking it is absolutely meaningless. It has no ability to alter the ph of anything and anything added to it will change its ph towards what was added.

So I thought as well. BUT I just fed one plan5/5/5 mil = tsp/gal MGB. I checked the ph and it read 6.56 so I fed the plant the gallon in a 3 gal pot and that gives me a good 10 -15% runoff. I checked the ph of this RO and it read 4.65 wtf I grabbed another sample of RO and got the same 4.65 wtf? this can't be good.....right? Plant has some leaf discoloration on a couple of leaves but how the FK does my ph RO go to such low numbers? It's ProMix I've not added any acid to this sht and only 6.5 water/feed and that was only it's 4th and largest feeding of its 7 weeks of life.

 

[Beachwalker]

So I thought as well. BUT I just fed one plan5/5/5 mil = tsp/gal MGB. I checked the ph and it read 6.56 so I fed the plant the gallon in a 3 gal pot and that gives me a good 10 -15% runoff. I checked the ph of this RO and it read 4.65 wtf I grabbed another sample of RO and got the same 4.65 wtf? this can't be good.....right? Plant has some leaf discoloration on a couple of leaves but how the FK does my ph RO go to such low numbers? It's ProMix I've not added any acid to this sht and only 6.5 water/feed and that was only it's 4th and largest feeding of its 7 weeks of life.

Have you done the slurry test yet?

 

[Aqua Man]

So I thought as well. BUT I just fed one plan5/5/5 mil = tsp/gal MGB. I checked the ph and it read 6.56 so I fed the plant the gallon in a 3 gal pot and that gives me a good 10 -15% runoff. I checked the ph of this RO and it read 4.65 wtf I grabbed another sample of RO and got the same 4.65 wtf? this can't be good.....right? Plant has some leaf discoloration on a couple of leaves but how the FK does my ph RO go to such low numbers? It's ProMix I've not added any acid to this sht and only 6.5 water/feed and that was only it's 4th and largest feeding of its 7 weeks of life.

Nutrients as you know generally are slightly acidic. As they build up in the soil they can cause ph to become lower. There is also cation exchange. It's not abnormal for runoff to have a lower ph. And runoff may not be a good indication of soil ph. It's kind of a snap shot. A slurry test is much better

Whatever is influencing the ph I can tell you it's not the RO water. It has no influence on ph. Now if you take and add say tsp per 5 gal of calcium carbonate, dolomite lime (not so easy to dissolve) or baking soda to the RO you likely to have a higher run off ph but that also stays in the soil and will impact soil ph.

The first guys will get ya straight away. I'm just saying in no way shape or form can RO influence your PH other than dilution of acid or bases which is not the cause here.

 

[Aqua Man]

When I get home I will fina

So I thought as well. BUT I just fed one plan5/5/5 mil = tsp/gal MGB. I checked the ph and it read 6.56 so I fed the plant the gallon in a 3 gal pot and that gives me a good 10 -15% runoff. I checked the ph of this RO and it read 4.65 wtf I grabbed another sample of RO and got the same 4.65 wtf? this can't be good.....right? Plant has some leaf discoloration on a couple of leaves but how the FK does my ph RO go to such low numbers? It's ProMix I've not added any acid to this sht and only 6.5 water/feed and that was only it's 4th and largest feeding of its 7 weeks of life.

are you checking the PH of the RO water or the RO mixed with nutrients or the RO mixed with nutrients and poured through the medium and caught as run off?

OH FUCK!!!! I just realized you are using RO (meaning run off) and im addressing it as RO (reverse osmosis) :/ Its official I am "special"

 

[oldskol4evr]

I am seeing issues on the leaves on all my plants and I always ph my feed and water to around 6.5 - 6.6 I've fed 3 girls 3 times over 7 weeks 3/3/3mm = 3/5 tsp Micro/Grow/Bloom General Hydroponics 3 part system.
I noticed a problem with new growth on my 3 month old Cherry Bomb plant I'm still vegging. I was advised to check my RO ph and I found it to be at 4.8 ( I'd checked it a week or so earlier and found it to be ast 5,8) on all my plants, to low from what I've learned, here. I lifted the ph of my input water hoping to bring up the ph of the soil / promix but I haven't had success in doing that I still have low soil RO after flushing numerous times. I figured I'd flush out the salts and start fresh.

I flood the fk out of the plant, then let it drain completely 100% run off then do it again . Water shouldn't hurt it as long as it drains I figure. I always have 10 - 20% + run off when I feed or water then wet vac it up. I'm heading out for dolomite if I can find some in something other than a 40lb bag.

I don't have a PPM meter( coming soon I guess) so I can't check that yet. If I didn't have issues with the leaves I wouldn't bothered with any of this but I'd like to have this fixed yesterday because I'd like to turn them asap.

you might be flushing to much mate,problem from washing all the nutrients ,even pro mix can build bioligy,when i used it i just watered and feed like reg soil,never check runoff at all,i do always go buy the ppm chart as i do with every grow,that how i control the salt buildup,i just didnt exchange the air and feed as much,coco hell it takes a lot to get it a hydro speed,the pro mix didnt give me much problems,i just feed it when the bucket lean was light,once a week i gave the plants feed,you keep that pro mix happy it does do a good job,sorta like right in the middle of soil and coco what my experience was with it,me i would fix the problem with something like herculean harvest& olympus up,just seen that on a post by jwm and really like the idea of it,get with him on how to use but ya,stop the flushing thats were a bunch of rif raf starts

 

[oldskol4evr]

if im having problems with my soil i usally give them a humic fulvic feeding ,clears up but not as fast as id like ,i like the shit out of what @JWM2 suggest and gonna try if needed,i aint to old to try new things if you dig,but pretty much the same as his method, next feed 1/2 strength feed when hungry

 

[Jimster]

As most of you know, I have used Promix forever but I only feed about every 2 weeks on avg. The only reason I could think of my Ph dropping like that would be from overfeeding (or Ph additives, which don't apply here) Keep in mind, when you flush, the stuff typically goes from top to bottom. If there was a previous buildup of nutes/salts, they would be concentrated more at the bottom than the top. Flushing would cause the salty water to come out the bottom, but it would show the higher PPM salts until a LOT of water was run thru and leached them out. I think Potassium is pretty hard to flush out if I'm not mistaken. What you might be seeing is a lot of the salty nutrients coming out the bottom, since they are water soluble and would be carried out by the new water coming in. It might take a lot of flushing, however as sometimes water will develop channels of less restrictive medium, allowing a lot of the water to flow thru the channels but not necessarily thru the other areas.
IDK, as this is an unusual case and I don't know how much the differing forms of nutrients can cause the roots to affect the Ph as well. I'd LOVE to say to mix up some wood ashes and water, which will raise the Ph nicely... but also provides nutrients which could be at the source of the problem here. HMMmmmmm.....