The PH Thread.....Runoff PH??

[Beachwalker]

As most of you know, I have used Promix forever but I only feed about every 2 weeks on avg. The only reason I could think of my Ph dropping like that would be from overfeeding (or Ph additives, which don't apply here) Keep in mind, when you flush, the stuff typically goes from top to bottom. If there was a previous buildup of nutes/salts, they would be concentrated more at the bottom than the top. Flushing would cause the salty water to come out the bottom, but it would show the higher PPM salts until a LOT of water was run thru and leached them out. I think Potassium is pretty hard to flush out if I'm not mistaken. What you might be seeing is a lot of the salty nutrients coming out the bottom, since they are water soluble and would be carried out by the new water coming in. It might take a lot of flushing, however as sometimes water will develop channels of less restrictive medium, allowing a lot of the water to flow thru the channels but not necessarily thru the other areas.
IDK, as this is an unusual case and I don't know how much the differing forms of nutrients can cause the roots to affect the Ph as well. I'd LOVE to say to mix up some wood ashes and water, which will raise the Ph nicely... but also provides nutrients which could be at the source of the problem here. HMMmmmmm.....

@PipeCarver is having issues with low pH right now in his Pro mix too?! Interesting..

 

[Jimster]

What is the soilmix that @Aqua Man mentioned?

It is a mix that I have used for 35 years or more. It is so simple it is ridiculous... as well as boring. I was taught this when I first started growing and haven't had a need to change it. It is simply Promix HP (HP means High Porosity... it drains extremely well and avoids overwatering issues), around 20% compost/manure mix (from Loews/Home Depot for a few dollars a 30 lb bag), a generic time release fertilizer that comes in prills/pellets, and Jack's 20-20-20 fertilizer (I use Jack's blooming fertilizer during flowering). Thats it. I feed 1 tablespoon/gallon per plant about every 12-15 days and water daily or every other day, depending on if the need it. I use tap water which provides enough magnesium and calcium, while the manure and stuff provides a selection of micro nutrients. The prills provide a light snack for times between feeding and the time period between feedings prevents overfeeding and Ph issues while allowing sufficient nutrients to grow well.
I'm not sure how much difference there is between this method and hydro, as I've never tried hydro and I'm too damn old to learn new tricks! It is fairly foolproof although maybe not as fast as hydro. Based on Aqua Man's observations, I might step the feeding up slightly, but this is the recipe I've used since Carter was in Office and before things went to hell in the middle east. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Aqua Man]

It is a mix that I have used for 35 years or more. It is so simple it is ridiculous... as well as boring. I was taught this when I first started growing and haven't had a need to change it. It is simply Promix HP (HP means High Porosity... it drains extremely well and avoids overwatering issues), around 20% compost/manure mix (from Loews/Home Depot for a few dollars a 30 lb bag), a generic time release fertilizer that comes in prills/pellets, and Jack's 20-20-20 fertilizer (I use Jack's blooming fertilizer during flowering). Thats it. I feed 1 tablespoon/gallon per plant about every 12-15 days and water daily or every other day, depending on if the need it. I use tap water which provides enough magnesium and calcium, while the manure and stuff provides a selection of micro nutrients. The prills provide a light snack for times between feeding and the time period between feedings prevents overfeeding and Ph issues while allowing sufficient nutrients to grow well.
I'm not sure how much difference there is between this method and hydro, as I've never tried hydro and I'm too damn old to learn new tricks! It is fairly foolproof although maybe not as fast as hydro. Based on Aqua Man's observations, I might step the feeding up slightly, but this is the recipe I've used since Carter was in Office and before things went to hell in the middle east. Let me know if you have any questions.

Yeah I used 3 part promix myco (cause it's what they had at home Depot) 1 part cow manure and 1 cup of wood ashes. Slurry test was perfect. 6.4 and I fed once at 400ppm of mega crop. Been in flower just over 2 weeks. It's literally rediculous how easy it is compared to hydro. Just water and twiddle thumbs. I think @Jimster is bang on about 2 weeks feed it's looking like. Mine are under a 1000w HPS.

@Jimster thanks again for this I still freaking amazed at it

 

[Jimster]

Yeah I used 3 part promix myco (cause it's what they had at home Depot) 1 part cow manure and 1 cup of wood ashes. Slurry test was perfect. 6.4 and I fed once at 400ppm of mega crop. Been in flower just over 2 weeks. It's literally rediculous how easy it is compared to hydro. Just water and twiddle thumbs. I think @Jimster is bang on about 2 weeks feed it's looking like. Mine are under a 1000w HPS.

@Jimster thanks again for this I still freaking amazed at it

I feel like a Guru now!! I'll have to practice puffing my chest out and strutting around now!! The biggest compliment for me is that it is working well for you !

 

[oldskol4evr]

It is a mix that I have used for 35 years or more. It is so simple it is ridiculous... as well as boring. I was taught this when I first started growing and haven't had a need to change it. It is simply Promix HP (HP means High Porosity... it drains extremely well and avoids overwatering issues), around 20% compost/manure mix (from Loews/Home Depot for a few dollars a 30 lb bag), a generic time release fertilizer that comes in prills/pellets, and Jack's 20-20-20 fertilizer (I use Jack's blooming fertilizer during flowering). Thats it. I feed 1 tablespoon/gallon per plant about every 12-15 days and water daily or every other day, depending on if the need it. I use tap water which provides enough magnesium and calcium, while the manure and stuff provides a selection of micro nutrients. The prills provide a light snack for times between feeding and the time period between feedings prevents overfeeding and Ph issues while allowing sufficient nutrients to grow well.
I'm not sure how much difference there is between this method and hydro, as I've never tried hydro and I'm too damn old to learn new tricks! It is fairly foolproof although maybe not as fast as hydro. Based on Aqua Man's observations, I might step the feeding up slightly, but this is the recipe I've used since Carter was in Office and before things went to hell in the middle east. Let me know if you have any questions.

bullshit jim mever to old actually the challenge is awesome gives a old head a new journey breaks up the old tired routine,the thrash can grow has had me busy as hell,but enjoying,the plant looks like shit,the melon is about 5 lbs been that way for some time,so i gave upon it and decided let me see how long i can keep this bitch alive,so far i have all a learning curve ,i will get it down just still figuring shit out,did some crazy shit yesterday ,decided the little NPK test tablets,lets give them a try for this hydro water dont know how acurite they are in hydro water but did anyway,wont know if i dont try,so did the test,freaking N was so over the chart didnt even have the color on the veil,so purple a deep ass purple never seen it hahahahah just know it purple,the P was right between min and adequate,no K at all,so we said what to do,this kraty system only have 3 inputs,hahahahah my crazy ass decided to put some this fox farm cha ching in the water amazed me ,0-50-10 right,when i started my ppm was 1525 ph 6.3,after the cha ching ph 6.1 ppm 1375 what the hell i was expecting like nuclear counts and it dropped it all,so i believe the N had all others locked out time will tell,see what i mean takes that boredom away hahaah

 

[Moshmen]

It's my honest opinion and only that my opinion if you build your soil right there is no need to ph nutrients. While you should still check run off for an indication of nutrient build up (shown by lower ph) or when using tap, well water, hard water, with high carbonate/bicarbonate ( an increase in runoff ph).

I remind everyone I’m new! But in my option aqua man your on it! I just went thru this soul started out perfect then after a month of misdiagnosis/over feeding my ph dropped way low! In the low 5’s then I used farm! And found the overfeedinf caused the imbalance! And after a couple flushes and adding dolimite, I was able to save my girl! It’s not pretty but if it wasn’t for these guys she’d be dead for sure

 

[JWM2]

As most of you know, I have used Promix forever but I only feed about every 2 weeks on avg. The only reason I could think of my Ph dropping like that would be from overfeeding (or Ph additives, which don't apply here) Keep in mind, when you flush, the stuff typically goes from top to bottom. If there was a previous buildup of nutes/salts, they would be concentrated more at the bottom than the top. Flushing would cause the salty water to come out the bottom, but it would show the higher PPM salts until a LOT of water was run thru and leached them out. I think Potassium is pretty hard to flush out if I'm not mistaken. What you might be seeing is a lot of the salty nutrients coming out the bottom, since they are water soluble and would be carried out by the new water coming in. It might take a lot of flushing, however as sometimes water will develop channels of less restrictive medium, allowing a lot of the water to flow thru the channels but not necessarily thru the other areas.
IDK, as this is an unusual case and I don't know how much the differing forms of nutrients can cause the roots to affect the Ph as well. I'd LOVE to say to mix up some wood ashes and water, which will raise the Ph nicely... but also provides nutrients which could be at the source of the problem here. HMMmmmmm.....

Exactly 100% correct. The best solution imo instead of flushing them out is to bind them up and render them null. The nectar for the gods grow bible has a simple two bottle recipe for this and it works very well. I usually ph my solution higher than the suggested 6.8 but that’s my own personal preference based on my watering habits and experience. Binding up the excess or buildup is IMO the easiest and most effective solution to the problem. Of course not allowing them to build up in the first place is even better but we tend to overfeed out of love and sometimes it’s hard to adjust especially if you are running multiple strains that each like a different feeding regimen.

 

[Jimster]

It's my honest opinion and only that my opinion if you build your soil right there is no need to ph nutrients. While you should still check run off for an indication of nutrient build up (shown by lower ph) or when using tap, well water, hard water, with high carbonate/bicarbonate ( an increase in runoff ph).

I know that this upsets a lot of growers when you say stuff like that, but I haven't used a meter other than for novelty reasons (out of boredom) for a few years... Ph or PPB/EC. With the Promix and stuff, when I stay with the original recipe, I don't really need to as it is "dialed in" and I don't really have any variables. I have taken a lot of criticism for saying this, but since I'm not in hydro and I'm using a lot less additives than most growers, I haven't had the need for meters.
I'm not trying to be cocky... just the opposite. When you have a process that works well, there isn't always a need to change it. IMO.

 

[Caninobis]

It is a mix that I have used for 35 years or more. It is so simple it is ridiculous... as well as boring. I was taught this when I first started growing and haven't had a need to change it. It is simply Promix HP (HP means High Porosity... it drains extremely well and avoids overwatering issues), around 20% compost/manure mix (from Loews/Home Depot for a few dollars a 30 lb bag), a generic time release fertilizer that comes in prills/pellets, and Jack's 20-20-20 fertilizer (I use Jack's blooming fertilizer during flowering). Thats it. I feed 1 tablespoon/gallon per plant about every 12-15 days and water daily or every other day, depending on if the need it. I use tap water which provides enough magnesium and calcium, while the manure and stuff provides a selection of micro nutrients. The prills provide a light snack for times between feeding and the time period between feedings prevents overfeeding and Ph issues while allowing sufficient nutrients to grow well.
I'm not sure how much difference there is between this method and hydro, as I've never tried hydro and I'm too damn old to learn new tricks! It is fairly foolproof although maybe not as fast as hydro. Based on Aqua Man's observations, I might step the feeding up slightly, but this is the recipe I've used since Carter was in Office and before things went to hell in the middle east. Let me know if you have any questions.

So you mix the promix, compost, and pellets, and then feed with the fertilizer every 2 weeks? Or do you mix the fertilizer in with the rest of the ingredients, pot you plants in it, and then feed with whatever you feed your plants with?

 

[Jimster]

So you mix the promix, compost, and pellets, and then feed with the fertilizer every 2 weeks? Or do you mix the fertilizer in with the rest of the ingredients, pot you plants in it, and then feed with whatever you feed your plants with?

I had a big response written out, and then it disappeared!! GRRRrrr.
Anyhow, mix Promix, Compost Pellets, and a cup of wood ashes and mix them well, then fill a 5 or 6 gallon bucket. I plant directly into the bucket and water very lightly around the seedling for the first few weeks. After a few weeks, I water every 2 or 3 days as needed. I feed about every 14 days using Jack's 20-20-20... 1 tablespoon/gallon/per bucket. During flowering, I use Jack's flowering formula.

 

[PipeCarver]

I had a big response written out, and then it disappeared!! GRRRrrr.
Anyhow, mix Promix, Compost Pellets, and a cup of wood ashes and mix them well, then fill a 5 or 6 gallon bucket. I plant directly into the bucket and water very lightly around the seedling for the first few weeks. After a few weeks, I water every 2 or 3 days as needed. I feed about every 14 days using Jack's 20-20-20... 1 tablespoon/gallon/per bucket. During flowering, I use Jack's flowering formula.

I think I'm going to argue a bit here. Some said in this thread that runoff ph isn't a good indicator of poor soil conditions.
I believe my problem developed because I didn't keep a close enough eye on my runoff ph. I never bothered checking it until they were in the big pots and almost 1.5 months old. Had I been checking the runoff ph all along It wouldn't have gotten to 4.8, I would have address the issue before it got so low. After checking the runoff on all my clones in 1/2 gal pots I see 6.75 water going in and 6.35 as runoff. If I notice this number go too low I can up the ph of input water to adjust my soil ph upwards.
Letting it get to 4.8 just about killed the poor little thing. Keeping tabs on the runoff from birth to death seems to me the only way to address problems before they start. So yes its important to check runoff ph and it is relevant.Imho.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I think I'm going to argue a bit here. Some said in this thread that runoff ph isn't a good indicator of poor soil conditions.
I believe my problem developed because I didn't keep a close enough eye on my runoff ph. I never bothered checking it until they were in the big pots and almost 1.5 months old. Had I been checking the runoff ph all along It wouldn't have gotten to 4.8, I would have address the issue before it got so low. After checking the runoff on all my clones in 1/2 gal pots I see 6.75 water going in and 6.35 as runoff. If I notice this number go too low I can up the ph of input water to adjust my soil ph upwards.
Letting it get to 4.8 just about killed the poor little thing. Keeping tabs on the runoff from birth to death seems to me the only way to address problems before they start. So yes its important to check runoff ph and it is relevant.Imho.

I agree that you can see trends in the ph from regularly checking runoff but even better and simpler to see and deal with is the ec ([email protected]). When the ec goes up the ph tends to go down. From buildup in the medium.

When i see my ec getting to 1.7 or higher i know to water only or reduce feed strength. The ph will return to normal in lime or oyster shell buffered soil once the excess is dealt with. This is when some flushing is actually useful.

 

[PipeCarver]

I agree that you can see trends in the ph from regularly checking runoff but even better and simpler to see and deal with is the ec ([email protected]). When the ec goes up the ph tends to go down. From buildup in the medium.

When i see my ec getting to 1.7 or higher i know to water only or reduce feed strength. The ph will return to normal in lime or oyster shell buffered soil once the excess is dealt with. This is when some flushing is actually useful.

Ya I don't have a ppm meter( yet) but I see how it could be useful. Something else to get, my wife will love that (not) its always something lol. I told her when I got the new light that was it, no more I'm set. oops I need some dolomite, some new root gel, did I mention I need a ppm meter? lol I know they don't cost much ( maybe $20 ) but its the constant I need this or that, that gets to her. She has all the knitting needles and wool she needs so my constant needs for my hobby ticks her off. I need a new bong too but I don't dare push it for a couple of weeks.

 

[Caninobis]

Ya I don't have a ppm meter( yet) but I see how it could be useful. Something else to get, my wife will love that (not) its always something lol. I told her when I got the new light that was it, no more I'm set. oops I need some dolomite, some new root gel, did I mention I need a ppm meter? lol I know they don't cost much ( maybe $20 ) but its the constant I need this or that, that gets to her. She has all the knitting needles and wool she needs so my constant needs for my hobby ticks her off. I need a new bong too but I don't dare push it for a couple of weeks.

LOL, this is my life right now as well! What I do is i try to spend as much per week as her nails cost! She spends $40-$50 every 2 weeks on her nails so that equates to about $20 a week for me which means i can typically get a new gadget or bottle of nutes every week or so without setting off any alarm bells and then every once in a while spring for a big ticket item like a new light or something just like how she gets her hair done

 

[Jimster]

Ya I don't have a ppm meter( yet) but I see how it could be useful. Something else to get, my wife will love that (not) its always something lol. I told her when I got the new light that was it, no more I'm set. oops I need some dolomite, some new root gel, did I mention I need a ppm meter? lol I know they don't cost much ( maybe $20 ) but its the constant I need this or that, that gets to her. She has all the knitting needles and wool she needs so my constant needs for my hobby ticks her off. I need a new bong too but I don't dare push it for a couple of weeks.

A PPM meter is a great tool. I don't have a need for one with my setup as it works perfectly for my local water and Promix setup. Any variations from the recipe would recommend a PPM measurement just to make sure that things are OK. With the recipe I use, the nutrients are a lot less than most folks use and the extended feeding intervals keep salts and stuff from building up (and the possible Ph and nutrient lockout issues that can accompany them). The few times I used a PPM or Ph meter, the Ph was generally 6.5 and the PPM was acceptable. I'm not saying that meters aren't necessary, itt is just that I have a pretty stable setup and don't have the Ph swings and problems from high levels of nutrients and minerals.

 

[Caninobis]

A PPM meter is a great tool. I don't have a need for one with my setup as it works perfectly for my local water and Promix setup. Any variations from the recipe would recommend a PPM measurement just to make sure that things are OK. With the recipe I use, the nutrients are a lot less than most folks use and the extended feeding intervals keep salts and stuff from building up (and the possible Ph and nutrient lockout issues that can accompany them). The few times I used a PPM or Ph meter, the Ph was generally 6.5 and the PPM was acceptable. I'm not saying that meters aren't necessary, itt is just that I have a pretty stable setup and don't have the Ph swings and problems from high levels of nutrients and minerals.

Do you have any pictures of your grows using your promix? I'm curious to see the results of your method!

 

[MIMedGrower]

Ya I don't have a ppm meter( yet) but I see how it could be useful. Something else to get, my wife will love that (not) its always something lol. I told her when I got the new light that was it, no more I'm set. oops I need some dolomite, some new root gel, did I mention I need a ppm meter? lol I know they don't cost much ( maybe $20 ) but its the constant I need this or that, that gets to her. She has all the knitting needles and wool she needs so my constant needs for my hobby ticks her off. I need a new bong too but I don't dare push it for a couple of weeks.

Growing plants is not a hobby. Its medicine. Ask her when her knitting hobby cured cancer. Or paid for itself with valuable product.

 

[PipeCarver]

Growing plants is not a hobby. Its medicine. Ask her when her knitting hobby cured cancer. Or paid for itself with valuable product.

Its a hobby for me and she knits scarves,toques, socks,sweaters to keep me warm and healthy in the winter so she's kinda in the health care business as well.

 

[Beachwalker]

Ya I don't have a ppm meter( yet) but I see how it could be useful. Something else to get, my wife will love that (not) its always something lol. I told her when I got the new light that was it, no more I'm set. oops I need some dolomite, some new root gel, did I mention I need a ppm meter? lol I know they don't cost much ( maybe $20 ) but its the constant I need this or that, that gets to her. She has all the knitting needles and wool she needs so my constant needs for my hobby ticks her off. I need a new bong too but I don't dare push it for a couple of weeks.

It is constant! & it can get pricey

 

[MIMedGrower]

Its a hobby for me and she knits scarves,toques, socks,sweaters to keep me warm and healthy in the winter so she's kinda in the health care business as well.

Damn good answer!