The Quest For Trichomes (a Story Of Micro Cultivation)

[Dutch Jon]

"..Can someone confirm if this is showing signs of hunger? I keep getting told to dial back nutes, but I don't feel like I'm pushing them that hard. "

I pretty much agree with V12xjs
you have signs of multiple deficiencies zinc iron, mag, mn and yea nitrogen too, when you have that many symptoms it ussally points to pH, you said you flushed but really good if u can get readings of the run off also I know your medium is coco base so if it's airy like coco if you keep your pH below 6.0 be good it's really acting like the pH is off
and/or lockout
IMO.

 

[v12xjs]

Plants seem to be getting back to their old selves mate. The colouring now suggests they are just below where they could be so I'd up the dose to 1.5ml and try feeding every 2nd watering. Same for the 45 day seedplant. Just keep an eye on them.
It is normal to have leaves under the canopy turn yellow and die off. The fact that they are very even in colour shows that the plant took out the nutes and killed them off, so they were not getting enough light. Just be sure to remove them as they fall to avoid any risk of bugs and disease.

I'd love to know the full spec of that panel you have there, did you build it from a kit?

 

[SMACKA]

Not big update today, but wanted to show an update of the plants after two weeks of water. I find myself watering once per week.

Both seem to be looking somewhat healthier, though we've got a long way to go before I'd call them "healthy". The water's definitely been good for them.

The White Widow is on the left...

• She's looking lime green, so I'll give her 1.5ml/L of nutes next feed as per v12xjs's suggestion.
• She has been pre-flowering, and her nodes have started to alternate... Is this from stress?
• New growth isn't looking too bad, but it's not dialled in by any means.

The Purple Kush is on the right...

• Better colour than the WW.
• New growth is still showing yellow tips, so she'll be drinking water for another week.

Going to need to take clones over the next few days. The plan is to pull them over again to get some light on the lower nodes, then after a couple days of recovery, switch the tent over to 12/12. The clones will go into the PC case, and be on 18/6 until they're big enough to go into the tent.

Question: How lame can the clones be? There are a couple of lower nodes that have been doing their best to make it to the canopy, but they're small, have just a few leaves, and 2-3 nodes. Is this lower/smaller growth okay for nodes, or should I be taking from the top?

 

[SMACKA]

I pretty much agree with V12xjs
you have signs of multiple deficiencies zinc iron, mag, mn and yea nitrogen too, when you have that many symptoms it ussally points to pH, you said you flushed but really good if u can get readings of the run off also I know your medium is coco base so if it's airy like coco if you keep your pH below 6.0 be good it's really acting like the pH is off
and/or lockout
IMO.

Awesome, thanks for chiming in. Will water them in the next couple days and note the run-off TDS and pH of each.

Will also aim for <6.0 pH if that works better for Coco-based mediums.

 

[SMACKA]

I'd love to know the full spec of that panel you have there, did you build it from a kit?

You bet. I just bought a kit from Horticulture Lighting Group.

In case the URL goes down, here are the specs for those of you visiting in the future via search:

• QB288 Board with 288pcs Samsung 561C top bin Diodes
• 340mm Heatsink
• Meanwell HLG-120H-54A LED Driver. 93.5% Driver Efficiency
• Lamp Efficacy with S6 Flux bin 2.44 µmol/J , 162Lm/W
• Board Level Efficacy with S6 Flux bin 2.61 µmol/J , 173Lm/W

 

[v12xjs]

Most peeps would be more than happy with those plants Smacka.
Alternating nodes can be a sign of maturity or low light conditions. When coupled with preflowering it can only be maturity however, so it's a very good sign ;)

I could go into great detail about my philosophy on clones but it is enough to say that the higher up the plant they originate, the faster they will grow.
I'm going to take a couple of clones later, I could do a mini guide if you wish.

Good reasoning behind not feeding the PK just yet, will likely prove to be a good call.

 

[SMACKA]

Most peeps would be more than happy with those plants Smacka.

Well let's see if we can make 'em jealous within a few runs.

Alternating nodes can be a sign of maturity or low light conditions. When coupled with preflowering it can only be maturity however, so it's a very good sign ;)

Ok, good stuff. I didn't know that.

I could go into great detail about my philosophy on clones but it is enough to say that the higher up the plant they originate, the faster they will grow. I'm going to take a couple of clones later, I could do a mini guide if you wish.

I'm always interested in learning more. I've read over the process a ton of times, but most suggest '4-nodes minimum' and/or '8 to 12 inches' which are obviously focusing on larger environments.

Are you saying they will grow or root faster? ie. Does this affect them for the entirety of their life, or just while rooting?

 

[v12xjs]

Basically they will always be more advanced.
Plants contain hormones called auxins that force them to grow upwards. The highest concentration of auxins is right at the top of the plant.
If you cut just below that then the cutting will be sprinting out of the ground. When you take a cutting from the bottom that has not grown much, then it will need to produce auxin before it even starts to get bigger.

I use this to my advantage in the pc grow:
I take the auxin-laden top and use it as a cutting and put the lower auxin bottom part in the pc case to flower. Flowering the bottoms really helps me control height.

8 - 12 inches is a fully flowered plant for me, never mind a cutting! Sack that!!
Looks like you already have plenty of suitable material. I'll do a primer in my thread tomorrow.

 

[v12xjs]

In case the URL goes down, here are the specs for those of you visiting in the future via search:

• QB288 Board with 288pcs Samsung 561C top bin Diodes
• 340mm Heatsink
• Meanwell HLG-120H-54A LED Driver. 93.5% Driver Efficiency
• Lamp Efficacy with S6 Flux bin 2.44 µmol/J , 162Lm/W
• Board Level Efficacy with S6 Flux bin 2.61 µmol/J , 173Lm/W

Very nice spec ;)
So what is the overall temperature or CCT? 2700K? 3000K?
And how many channels?
And how may chips for each channel?
And are they 3 watt chips?

 

[SMACKA]

Quick update - they've had a couple weeks of plain pH'd water in an effort to flush out the issues; things are looking a little better, but still not happy with where things are at. This whole process has become less fun than it is frustrating.

Not even sure my pH pen is accurate or not. It's calibrated, but at this point I'm ruling nothing out - old nutes, old calibration liquid, old pH pen that's dried out before. It's hard to know where to begin, but I don't have money to spend on new gear so that's not an option.

Here's the White Widow...

Here's the Purple Kush...

Super frustrated.

 

[SMACKA]

Very nice spec ;)
So what is the overall temperature or CCT? 2700K? 3000K?
And how many channels?
And how may chips for each channel?
And are they 3 watt chips?

I'm not the one to ask on this stuff. I researched COB's enough to make your head spin then went Quantum at the last moment because I needed to fill the tent, the plants were outgrowing the PC, plus it was passively cooled, flat, and was the perfect size for my tent.

I'd seen others recommend it (people like Green Gene and Growmau5 on youtube), and I didn't want to have to cut metal, plastic, wire, solder, and screw, etc. so I just bit the bullet and clicked "Add to Cart"

If you're dying for specs, there's a thread on RIU by the owner of the company (Robin) that talks about them in depth. He's also there to answer any questions you have that haven't already been answered.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[Ytransplant]

Just my 2 cents based on 37 yrs of growing....concentration of auxins in a cutting will no effect how it roots...ALL ROOTING HORMONES are auxin based because it promotes rooting on cut ends of many plants...it was developed to assist propagation in harder to root plants to preserve desireable traits particular plants may have, vegetables, friuts, flowers, etc...
REGARDLESS of where a cutting is removed from a plant, as long as it is still supple and not old and more woody, your auxin based hormone will do its thing...ONCE ROOTS HAVE DEVELOPED, your, now young plant will start to develope all its own auxins for fast lush

growth...I take ALL my cuttings from the lower, inside of the plant which most likely will be lollipopped off anyways...a little interesting info on auxin movements laterally AWAY FROM LIGHT and downward with gravity...also pic of current grow which also has White Widow, cheese candy and incredible bulk...full crop 4ft by 5ft 1k light...pic was day 36 of flower....FYI, I bought WW once from Crap King (I mean crop king) and it was JUNK....Gave them a second chance, MORE JUNK....I aquired a BEAUTIFUL white widow extm from a little know place called Elephantos...check em out..dont carry tons of stuff but THE BEST, (IMO of course)..also pic of that particular WWx bud a few day from chop...sorry about the coloration orange hue from HPS light, but it TELL THE STORY OF ITS QUALITY...came back and figured I put up a pic of a Cheese Candy top too, one on the plant and a cpl dry nugs..

...regards, YT

 

[SMACKA]

Just my 2 cents based on 37 yrs of growing....concentration of auxins in a cutting will no effect how it roots...ALL ROOTING HORMONES are auxin based because it promotes rooting on cut ends of many plants...

REGARDLESS of where a cutting is removed from a plant, as long as it is still supple and not old and more woody, your auxin based hormone will do its thing...

ONCE ROOTS HAVE DEVELOPED, your, now young plant will start to develop all its own auxins for fast lush growth...

I take ALL my cuttings from the lower, inside of the plant which most likely will be lollipopped off anyways...

..regards, YT

Thanks for your knowledge, I appreciate you weighing in.

As with most things in life, it probably makes to do some tests, pull one or two from the top, and another 1 or 2 from the bottom, and report on my findings.

Until then I'm just trying to nail down some green growth! ;)

 

[v12xjs]

@Ytransplant
Not here son, it isn't appropriate to the thread. Start another and we can discuss it further.

 

[Ytransplant]

@Ytransplant
Not here son, it isn't appropriate to the thread. Start another and we can discuss it further.

Sorry there xjs...could have sworn your telling some newer grower that talking cuttings from the tops of your plants it best because of higher concentrations of auxins....SO SORRY SON, you were the one giving out bogus information, ON THAT SUBJECT...amazing how ppl get very protective when they are called out on BS they post....WE WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT JR...

 

[v12xjs]

Please excuse me miss, didn't mean to offend. I thought you were a guy. My mistake.

 

[SMACKA]

Went and bought a new pH pen and pH calibration liquid.

My pH pen was having trouble calibrating, and I'd suspected it wasn't functioning properly so when @Dutch Jon mentioned that my pH might be wrong, I silently decided if things didn't get better in the next week or so, then I had to replace the probe and calibration solutions... so today I did.

Just fed them 3.75L (1 gallon) of nutes mixed at 1.5mL/L then adjusted to 5.8 pH. Also, @Dutch Jon asked me to measure run off so I'm reporting back that run off was 6.1 pH

Pics to come later this week once they've had a chance to taste their new water ;)

 

[Dutch Jon]

"..then adjusted to 5.8 pH. Also, @Dutch Jon asked me to measure run off so I'm reporting back that run off was 6.1 pH..:

That good you did that, man
I'm assuming you know what that means which is basically your coir is holding a bit of salts as you soil pH is above 6.1 depending of how much you watered or fed. I can say what I do and you could do what thy wilt, and that is the next few feedings keep your pH of say 5.8 or a bit lower and make sure you got like 10% or more runoff and keep measuring the runoff till it gets 6.0 or under I like it a bit under especially when you get into flowering. that might not be your total answer for what's going on but it needs to be addressed.

Iv'e been watching as I have a purple kush also it's actually a pheno from Dinafem OG Kush that turn purple it was tastier with that classic sweet pungent kush smell and taste lemon fruity skunky this pheno was also denser tighter, way heavier and more golf ballish than all the other phenos, its my keeper so to speak...good luck my bro.

 

[SMACKA]

That good you did that, man
I'm assuming you know what that means which is basically your coir is holding a bit of salts as you soil pH is above 6.1 depending of how much you watered or fed. I can say what I do and you could do what thy wilt, and that is the next few feedings keep your pH of say 5.8 or a bit lower and make sure you got like 10% or more runoff and keep measuring the runoff till it gets 6.0 or under I like it a bit under especially when you get into flowering. that might not be your total answer for what's going on but it needs to be addressed.

Yeah, thanks for confirming. Did a bit of research after posting yesterday to see what 6.1 meant, and assumed it meant salt build up. After moving up from 1.5L to 2gallon pots for the first time, think I was making two mistakes:

• Nutes were too strong (measured at 3mL/L as per the Canna Schedule I was using until @v12xjs pointed out it wasn't the official Canna Schedule)
• Not enough run off (which caused the build up)

For the last few feeds I've given them a gallon (3.75L) so they're each getting close to 2L each (measured at 1.5mL/L). Is that enough for these 2 gallon pots?

I've read about 10%–15% run off, and I'm certainly getting more than 300mL per pot so I've assumed I'm doing all right now and that those numbers will keep going down.

They were fed at a pH of 5.8, yesterday and I'll keep it at or below that in the next week or two, so hopefully we'll get that run off down. More importantly than that, we can now trust the pH numbers.

 

[SMACKA]

Okay, everyone, time for the weekly update. Here's a look at the tent.

It's the middle of Summer here, and some days my place is getting upwards of 25–28° inside. Humidity fluctuates between 40–60%.

^ In two months, temperatures will start dropping, and soon I'll be doing everything I can to keep the tent warm enough, so I've not fussed too much in terms of heat.

Sure... it gets hot in thee (like in the above pic), but never super outrageous, so I've tried not to worry about it too much.

Also, micro chambers tend to be an inherently stressful environment, but either way I'd love to hear your tips/tricks on getting VPD in check in these small areas.

Here's the White Widow...

^ She's still looking pretty "lime green", and tips are a little scorched but seems to be getting a darker shade of green which is what I've been looking to do.

^ Here's a close up of her bushy area, showing some darker greens.

^ Here's a close-up of her lighter lime green shoots. Notice the purple tips and veins on the leaves.

Obviously temps aren't too low, so is this due to the salt buildup (and therefore something I can look to see improve over the coming weeks)?


Here's the Purple Kush...

^ Here's a close up of the purple kush. Again, we see the tips looking a little burnt, and the leaves look pretty "sativa" like for a kush (then again, I'm using Crop Kings genetics, here), but the leaves are no longer hooking down as they used to (you can see it in those lower leaves), so I'm hoping the (a) larger feeds of, (b) lower doses, and (c) proper pH will continue to flush out the salts and give these girls more of what they're looking for.

^ Here's the whole PK plant. The newer growth looks green and she's no longer shedding the lower leaves as she was a couple weeks ago when I started flushing out the build up.



Questions:

1. Didn't want to take clones from a sick mom, but judging by their size, I think we're ready to flip the lights to 12/12, which means I need to cut 3 or 4 clones from each. Are they healthy enough to take clones from?

2. Can you confirm those scorched tips look like nute burn from buildup? If not, would love to hear your thoughts on how things are progressing.