The Ranch

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 19, 2018

Dunge said:
This idea of sprouting barley is interesting.
Is it the amylase you are going for?
Do you mash the sprouts and put in tea?

In my old notes from one of Coots original recipes it says "think enzymes". Check out that last link.

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 19, 2018

brazel said:
If people learned what plants need we wouldn't have these... What's wrong with my plants.... @RanchoDeluxe when was the last time you had a problem? Insect problems you can get but that's on you too

I have problems just like everyone else. Let's talk about them and some other problems associated with no till.

I used Teufels compost...which isn't the best. I'm 4 1/2 weeks into flower on my second run and I'm struggling to keep up with them. Appears like I have an immobile element that's not cycling. I've been throwing just about everything in the book at em lately too. I'm not super surprised by the situation either.
First crop is done and harvested. So now I can work on making my soil come alive.
All my beds have recently been topdressed with 20gallons of a mix of Bu's compost, Stutzman Farms chicken manure, and soil from my old no till. I have 16lbs of red wigglers on the way...1lb for each 500g bed. Plus 4lbs of a wiggler/euro mix that I'll use in my old personal no till that now serves as a worm bin.
I've done about 20 cups worth of barley SST. Alfalfa/kelp/chicken manure teas. Fish hydrolyslate. Plenty of aloe too. Some Protekt. Gonna buy some coconut water powder in the morning.
This was my bad for not getting worms and a really nice 2-3" quality topdress sooner. I know the beast I'm playing with here! Lol.
After a few years in the same soil...yeah it can become boringly easy.

Here are a couple things to watch out for that took me quite some time to realize. Be very careful if you switch light sources from early veg to bed. Unfortunately I go from T5 to double ended HPS currently. When I move them I turn the lights down to 50% and only have half of them on too for about a week before I transplant. This 'hardens' them off and now I transplant into the beds...always with an alfalfa/kelp/aloe tea.
I never transplant a root bound plant into the beds either...it can take weeks for them to recover from the shock. I try to time the transplant within a week from the veg plant needing water daily. For some reason smaller plants always seem to do better with no transplant shock. I prefer 3 gallon pots for veg.

And will you knock it off with the whole pest thing? In most circles I run in you wouldn't be considered a real pot grower if you've never had spider mites. Just saying. Lol.

JMcG · Jan 19, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
Get peat moss at Lowe's or HD, much cheaper. PN carries amendments from NW Concentrates. They are Superior and cheaper than the down to Earth brand your shop likely carries. You want to buy 50lb sacks of everything.

Nice! You headed my next comment off at the pass!
Yes, my local shop carries a bunch of DTE products, and I was curious as to whether they are a high quality brand or not.
They have 40lb neem seed meal for $74, and a 40lb crab meal for $64.
For kelp meal they have North Atlantic Neptunes kelp meal, 50lb for $99.
I am going to be up there next week and plan on checking out PN. I'll look at the NW Concentrates line up.
I'll see what my HD carries for CSPM. I hear that the 3.8 bales are the way to go, less processing to them and a fresher material. I also heard that as long as they are CSPMA certified that you can't really go wrong...
Thanks for the heads up!

JMcG · Jan 19, 2018

brazel said:
Have you read teaming with nutrients and teaming with microbes yet? If not do it, I really admire your desire to know more!

I started reading TWM, but now I am going to back up and start with TWF. TW nutrients sound like the one that might kick my ass. Chemistry absolutely confuses the shit out of me. Hated it scholastically, I was a reader and writer!
But I'll try to stumble through...:)

JMcG · Jan 19, 2018

Organikz said:
@RanchoDeluxe
You haven't listened to the new podcasts from tad? He is using an MBP only mix. Here's the trick. Vermicomposting with coots layering method. 4" compost, 4 cup of MBP, kelp, neem, and aeration, 4" compost, rinse and repeat. All of the minerals and even the PGRs and even the limonoids stay intact. This is all done in a 300g smartpot.

After a year all u need is SPM and a bit of aeration.

Yeah, man. I have been binging on those podcasts. The coot interviews are priceless!

JMcG · Jan 19, 2018

Can we talk about the raised beds for a bit here?
My space will allow for a couple of different configurations and sizes of beds.
I am thinking long term here. I want beds that I can put casters on and keep them mobile so I can clean under them and move them if necessary.
I am thinking of building one to get things going and then use that experience to build more as I phase out my current coco set up. I think I can utilize 3' x 6' x 18" beds pretty efficiently.
Questions for you guys...
A) Is 18" a good standard depth for a bed that size? Could it be shallower? Deeper? I know we need as much space as possible for accumulating bio mass.
B) What materials do you recommend to build it? I am thinking welding some angle iron to make the base and sides and lining that with AC plywood. Either a pan liner for waterproofing or maybe just a couple of coats of boat building two part epoxy. I am a decorative concrete guru too... the possibility for a thin walled monolithic trough definitely exsists and may be my cheapest route after all...
I have more questions, but let's take it easy...;)

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 19, 2018

Rcubed said:
Hey RD would there be any benefit of planting barley as a cover crop? Will the sprouting seeds release the same enzymes? Or is there more of a benefit of sprouting, drying, and using as a top dress? I can get bulk barley seed from my feed store for super cheap so I'm thinking of just planting them in the containers I'm prepping.

There is more benefit from SST. I can get a 50lb sack of barley from my feed store for 12 bucks. Same for oats and wheat. Part of the reason I just sprout my own.

Rcubed · Jan 19, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
There is more benefit from SST. I can get a 50lb sack of barley from my feed store for 12 bucks. Same for oats and wheat. Part of the reason I just sprout my own.

Yep, I read that article on biotorch and I see why top dress is better for enzyme boost due to peak enzyme production occurring just at the initial stage of germination

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 19, 2018

JMcG said:
Can we talk about the raised beds for a bit here?
My space will allow for a couple of different configurations and sizes of beds.
I am thinking long term here. I want beds that I can put casters on and keep them mobile so I can clean under them and move them if necessary.
I am thinking of building one to get things going and then use that experience to build more as I phase out my current coco set up. I think I can utilize 3' x 6' x 18" beds pretty efficiently.
Questions for you guys...
A) Is 18" a good standard depth for a bed that size? Could it be shallower? Deeper? I know we need as much space as possible for accumulating bio mass.
B) What materials do you recommend to build it? I am thinking welding some angle iron to make the base and sides and lining that with AC plywood. Either a pan liner for waterproofing or maybe just a couple of coats of boat building two part epoxy. I am a decorative concrete guru too... the possibility for a thin walled monolithic trough definitely exsists and may be my cheapest route after all...
I have more questions, but let's take it easy...;)

No till works best w 2 flowering rooms. Usually no need for casters or moving the bed. All we are doing is making giant smart pots. I use 2by4s, plastic fencing and landscape fabric. Plastic cap nails for roofing work well here. 16" is the minimum depth I recommend. Build it deeper but don't necessarily fill it.

Rcubed · Jan 19, 2018

Hey what about newly sprouted oats? Much enzyme boost?

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 19, 2018

Ceveres said:
Little late to the party but I'm subbed. There's a wealth of information here displayed in a way that takes away the intimidation of no-till farming. I like your no-nonsense approach to it all.

Hey thanks man. Hope you enjoy the rest of the thread!
RD

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 19, 2018

Rcubed said:
Hey what about newly sprouted oats? Much enzyme boost?

Virtually all seeds... especially grains have the enzymes we are looking for.

JMcG · Jan 19, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
No till works best w 2 flowering rooms. Usually no need for casters or moving the bed. All we are doing is making giant smart pots. I use 2by4s, plastic fencing and landscape fabric. Plastic cap nails for roofing work well here. 16" is the minimum depth I recommend. Build it deeper but don't necessarily fill it.View attachment 772242 View attachment 772243

Well hell! Those look waaay simple! I like it.
What do you do for the bottoms?
Why two flowering rooms?

Organikz · Jan 19, 2018

@RanchoDeluxe
i think we're just at opposite ends of the spectrum. I like starting strong and keeping it moving rather than starting bare minimum and working out of a hole. i do 50/50 EWC/compost and my bed took off out the gate. rove beetles flying around my room. I know i can always add compost or wood chips or whatever later. Worms have a harder time breaking down 1 year EWC than compost. they chew through compost. Worms can eat and digest their own castings repeatedly (god knows how many times) before all nutrients have been sequestered.

brazel · Jan 19, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
I have problems just like everyone else. Let's talk about them and some other problems associated with no till.

I used Teufels compost...which isn't the best. I'm 4 1/2 weeks into flower on my second run and I'm struggling to keep up with them. Appears like I have an immobile element that's not cycling. I've been throwing just about everything in the book at em lately too. I'm not super surprised by the situation either.
First crop is done and harvested. So now I can work on making my soil come alive.
All my beds have recently been topdressed with 20gallons of a mix of Bu's compost, Stutzman Farms chicken manure, and soil from my old no till. I have 16lbs of red wigglers on the way...1lb for each 500g bed. Plus 4lbs of a wiggler/euro mix that I'll use in my old personal no till that now serves as a worm bin.
I've done about 20 cups worth of barley SST. Alfalfa/kelp/chicken manure teas. Fish hydrolyslate. Plenty of aloe too. Some Protekt. Gonna buy some coconut water powder in the morning.
This was my bad for not getting worms and a really nice 2-3" quality topdress sooner. I know the beast I'm playing with here! Lol.
After a few years in the same soil...yeah it can become boringly easy.

Here are a couple things to watch out for that took me quite some time to realize. Be very careful if you switch light sources from early veg to bed. Unfortunately I go from T5 to double ended HPS currently. When I move them I turn the lights down to 50% and only have half of them on too for about a week before I transplant. This 'hardens' them off and now I transplant into the beds...always with an alfalfa/kelp/aloe tea.
I never transplant a root bound plant into the beds either...it can take weeks for them to recover from the shock. I try to time the transplant within a week from the veg plant needing water daily. For some reason smaller plants always seem to do better with no transplant shock. I prefer 3 gallon pots for veg.

And will you knock it off with the whole pest thing? In most circles I run in you wouldn't be considered a real pot grower if you've never had spider mites. Just saying. Lol.

Ha, will do and there's the Rancho!

brazel · Jan 19, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
In most circles I run in you wouldn't be considered a real pot grower if you've never had spider mites.

I respect you and I'm grateful for what I learned from you, but to not say something would go against what I learned from you... that being said, you are saying spider mites make you a real pot grower! So not having spider mites is a negative!?
Maybe we should start selling spider mites! Why feel fake when you can buy these and become real! Not real enough get our thrips too! Just saying bro!

Dunge · Jan 20, 2018

brazel said:
I respect you and I'm grateful for what I learned from you, but to not say something would go against what I learned from you... that being said, you are saying spider mites make you a real pot grower! So not having spider mites is a negative!?
Maybe we should start selling spider mites! Why feel fake when you can buy these and become real! Not real enough get our thrips too! Just saying bro!

He is simply pointing out the obvious.
When faced with a new pest, what to do?
Until you go through it, the first response is to thrash about a bit.
You can look forward to that.

It makes me aggravated when you blame the farmer for having pests.
Pests are a persistent threat.
They want our flowers more that we do.

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 20, 2018

JMcG said:
Well hell! Those look waaay simple! I like it.
What do you do for the bottoms?
Why two flowering rooms?

I used 1/2" foam under them. I ran 2bys across the bottom w welded wire fencing and chicken wire on my lil bed. Takes longer and costs a lil more.
When you grow in these raised beds you need to veg in them as well. Usually around 3 weeks of veg for me. Small plants grow incredibly fast in them. The need for a large veg room is gone. You just turn it into another late veg/flower room. Let me know if this makes sense.
RD

RanchoDeluxe · Jan 20, 2018

Organikz said:
@RanchoDeluxe
i think we're just at opposite ends of the spectrum. I like starting strong and keeping it moving rather than starting bare minimum and working out of a hole. i do 50/50 EWC/compost and my bed took off out the gate. rove beetles flying around my room. I know i can always add compost or wood chips or whatever later. Worms have a harder time breaking down 1 year EWC than compost. they chew through compost. Worms can eat and digest their own castings repeatedly (god knows how many times) before all nutrients have been sequestered.

In my next post I will try to make it as clear as possible exactly why I make my soil mix the way I do. I will also explain why it's not a great idea to follow in my footsteps.

First, let's clear up a few things. Earthworm castings are an incredibly rare commodity. It takes roughly 18 months to achieve almost pure EWC. I say almost pure because it's impossible to achieve 100% castings.

Why is this?

While you're correct that worms will eat their own castings, you failed to mention they are poisonous, toxic, and eventually fatal to the worms themselves.

I have left a bin for over a year with no inputs other than water for over a year. The worm population was devastated by this point. The resulting material went into my old no till bed and worked wonderfully.

What most of us buy or create is actually vermicompost. I only mention this because of your previous post where all the materials were allowed to be worked by worms for a year before use....this approaches EWC. I'll make things more clear in my next post.
RD

JMcG · Jan 21, 2018

RanchoDeluxe said:
I used 1/2" foam under them. I ran 2bys across the bottom w welded wire fencing and chicken wire on my lil bed. Takes longer and costs a lil more.
When you grow in these raised beds you need to veg in them as well. Usually around 3 weeks of veg for me. Small plants grow incredibly fast in them. The need for a large veg room is gone. You just turn it into another late veg/flower room. Let me know if this makes sense.
RD

Yup, I'm right with you.
We don't water til run off in these do we? So a bottom with a drain is unnecessary?
Having two rooms does seem like a benefit. If I end up with a total of four raised beds ( with casters so I can move them ) and keep a separate veg room I could be cloning and vegging in one and wheel them out into the flower room when ready to flip. The three in the flower room would end up on a perpetual harvest program. I assume that rooted clones would be planted directly into the beds too?

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