The root health challenge - Not for the inexperienced

[desertsquirrel]

You can listen to who ever you want, but chlorinization and di will be your only fix for this issue...

ill get u a lab soon. what part of the country?

 

[Bubblehaze]

Roots are getting light if you are using white trays you better cover them even the sides. Are your air lines clear ?
If you tried zone and didn't use 5 mils per gallon it doesn't kill just learned that myself. Also once you get root problems it stays in your chiller and is hard to get out. I just went through this in 2 uc's it took a few weeks and a bunch of water changes before it was gone. It was because the clay pellets were to low in the container letting light in. The other kept coming out of the chiller we had to move the plants and run heavy bleach through the chiller for a few days and used a lady's stocking to catch the loose debris. No more issues . I still have been dipping the roots into buckets of r/o water to rinse the dead material until it is gone,
We only get root issues once in a while and everytime we seem to have to use different solutions to fix them.

My rule of thumb is : If you have used all the products you still have problems. Its usually a light leak or its in your pipes /chiller or air stones and no matter what you do until you get them clean it will return over and over.

Zone at 5 mils per gallon will murder that root issue guaranteed. But only if its not built up somewhere. H202 works but it dissipates to fast in the system we use it to do a quick dip on the roots.

Good luck

 

[Juzam]

You can listen to who ever you want, but chlorinization and di will be your only fix for this issue...

ill get u a lab soon. what part of the country?

I'll send it anywhere but West.

Do you have Chlorinization and DI unit examples?

 

[desertsquirrel]

 

[desertsquirrel]

This system is an exact replica of the hospitals system in our city. It produces pure 0 ppm 5.8 pH hospital grade water and was built by culligan.

As a side note we now use 12 pre filters, not 3. That way if one thing clogs we know exactly what filter to change.

the last pic is chlorine injector, chlorine detention tank, and DI.

 

[Juzam]

So contact Culligan for details?

 

[PrefersHam]

DS when you install this type of configuration in a clients grow is it neater? do you have all the hoses and wires running all willy nilly like in the pics? just curious.

peace,


Ham

 

[Kushlvr]

That is a super nice set up for water supply! Hospital grade water? Please! Im looking into this set up. Sorry but I have to ask,what does culligan charge to set up filtration like this plus your chlorine injection system? DS I've noticed you don't mess around,at all. That's what I'm talking about. IMO quality is the key to success.

 

[Amber]

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Holly molly you are so about it. Nice setup.

 

[gettogro]

I have had terrible battles with the slime, cloudy water, bacteria, and poor root health. I have been using ewc tea along with a bag of washed lavarock in the epicenter to serve as a bio filter. I do not disenfect my Uc systems anymore, I just scrub them with water and a shop vac. Rince the lavarock and reuse. I fill my system back up and run it for 2 days with 2 gallons of tea each day, and add nutes on the second day. After 2 days my ph is stable and the water is CHRYSTAL clear. Ready for plants with no shock. Has been working great for me for over a year.

I think the lava biofilter really helps with the tea. When the plants have very little root mass in the beginning, the good bacteria doesn't have anything to inoculate. The lave does the job of filtering the water.

I too have tried almost everything. Zone, physan,h202, UV, bleach all have failed me.

30 gallon diy uc's

 

[gettogro]

Is this for growing pot, or launching the space shuttle? lol
Awesome filter setup DS

 

[Capulator]

I also run a live res from the beginning, and I use a net bag from the koi shop full of chopped up straws (bio media) in my res as well. I have gotten stem rot, but never any root rot yet <knock on wood>.

I have had terrible battles with the slime, cloudy water, bacteria, and poor root health. I have been using ewc tea along with a bag of washed lavarock in the epicenter to serve as a bio filter. I do not disenfect my Uc systems anymore, I just scrub them with water and a shop vac. Rince the lavarock and reuse. I fill my system back up and run it for 2 days with 2 gallons of tea each day, and add nutes on the second day. After 2 days my ph is stable and the water is CHRYSTAL clear. Ready for plants with no shock. Has been working great for me for over a year.

I think the lava biofilter really helps with the tea. When the plants have very little root mass in the beginning, the good bacteria doesn't have anything to inoculate. The lave does the job of filtering the water.

I too have tried almost everything. Zone, physan,h202, UV, bleach all have failed me.

30 gallon diy uc's

 

[kuz]

Tried sm90? I found sometimes h2o2 worked, sometimes bleach worked, if neither worked then I tried sm90. Actually when running rdwc I went dead res and just ran the three as preventative measure. But it was a never ending battle, why I run ebb and flo now.

 

[sky_blue]

The air level is probably contributing to he rapid degradation of your water, but i would bet a water test would find some bacteria present in your water source. Your going to need a chlorinization and DI system.

__
Is this right? Too powerful an airstone for the reservoir speeds up the degradation of the water?
(Ex. - Like an 8" circle airstone w/a strong pump for a 20 gal. res. in an ebb/flow system?)
(Thanks !!) -- I've never heard this about air supply, and I think I overdid it last time.

 

[Quantum9]

Yes... no airstones in f/d e/f only recirculators.

 

[Papa]

View attachment 264979

hey DS, i've had this question for a bit, but keep forgetting to ask ya.

disinfection can be handled in a number of different ways besides the chlorine that you utilize. . . . . ultra violet, ozone, chloramine, solar. for our purposes, i understand that solar isn't consistent, chloramine would be a similar solution as the chlorine, and ozone is way too pricey to do properly for the scale of grow rooms. but ultra violet radiation appears to be a viable, if not preferable, solution. its effectiveness (especially in filtered r/o water) is exceptional, it's economical, reliable, is easily scaled up or down, and there's no side effects nor residual in the water that must be removed.

i'm wondering why culligan proposed chlorine for your use over ultra violet. perhaps they already had this system designed and didn't want to make changes, perhaps you wanted to leave some residual chlorine in the water for disinfection, perhaps they don't have experience with uv, perhaps chlorine is more reliable for a hospital application (not affected by power outages)? did it come up?

and an item that i wanted to share with others regarding disinfection issues. many growers assume that an r/o system or other types of filtration provide disinfection. they do not. water disinfection is entirely different than water filtration. the best filtration systems out there will only remove the living things from your water that have attached themselves to solids. bacteria, algae spores, and other living things that may mess up our grows in a sterile growing environment are only removed with an effective disinfection system.

 

[hogan400]

Contact cch2o, they use and RECOMMEND a top notch testing facility. Once you figure out what algae or fungus it is, you can brainstorm a regimen to combat it.

D.S is helping you, get r.o water, if you dont have a r.o, get one!

I experienced, like others, the same situation. R.o didnt help "me". No matter what light I blocked, or sterilizer I used, the pathogen possibly existed within my Uc. My personal unit, a evo xxl15 is now a coco dtw setup. I pulled off a full troubleshoot thread about it and the results "I" had. I had several runs with algae and rot, all that finished excellent btw.

A few notes
Cuts taken in anything other than rockwool or a cloner gave "me" poor results, always about 3 weeks into veg. Rapid rooters, peat pellets, and the like, harbor bad shit. Also if the net pots are resting directly on roots, this could damage em and cause die back.

A thought,
Consider that pythium is a fungus. One thing we know, it lives in the plant. I recently noticed a few mothers I take cuts from, for use in my coco and soil grows, seem perfect without issues. Yet in our Uc's, suffer root rot. While other mothers I have don't! Its conceivable to me that its possible there are algae and fungus' we have yet to learn, and to treat effectively. Pathogens (fungus, mildews,molds) can transfer from clone to clone.

Another thought,
Hbergs tea is not a perfect tea for water culture btw. Ewc MUST be used, along with the proper fungi and sugars. EWC is the main ingredient, great white, and zho, aren't perfect additives, A Forest is a must for great results as is molasses (sugar) Hi-brix is best Ive found in personal testing. You can cut the sugars but not entirely. Otherwise its 100% crap, literally! Cap has a great "water culture" fungi product. If tea isnt brewed right, it wouldnt help you, actually cause the opposite.
I read the tea info you provided,
I've posted three pictures of vegged plants in our veg systems before they enter the UC RDWC. These are in 20 gallon coolers that swing 62-65*, have 3 12" airstones from a 1hp commercial blower (chilled), running 5.5-6.0ph swing, ~350-400 Canna Veg A/B nutes, with a Heidelberg tea (ancient forest, mycos or EWC, aquashield, Great white or ZHO and molasses.)

This reads as several 2 part teas.. you need ewc, ancient forest, simple sugars of some type and a quality water culture fungi product. All in one brew, in the proper amounts, or you are adding dead bacteria only, to your system. Sorry man, just wanted to cover this some, in case you might have done it improperly.

ohiofarmer has a point. Good wishes.

 

[Ohiofarmer]

Dam desertsquirrel, your doin it up big time homie!!! now thats the real deal uc growers right there, you gotta be pushin plants at a couple, couple bows a piece;). Though i had alot of fun runnin uc and dwc and got some massive harvests with great dense buds, you can get imo higher quality and lesser hassle from growing organic soil and you'll still get massive harvests of top notch buds. But in the end i find it's best to run every system there is until you find your happy place and once your there you'll never grow another way again, everyone has their own happy place haha. Take it easy man

 

[Juzam]

Contact cch2o, they use and RECOMMEND a top notch testing facility. Once you figure out what algae or fungus it is, you can brainstorm a regimen to combat it.

D.S is helping you, get r.o water, if you dont have a r.o, get one!

I experienced, like others, the same situation. R.o didnt help "me". No matter what light I blocked, or sterilizer I used, the pathogen possibly existed within my Uc. My personal unit, a evo xxl15 is now a coco dtw setup. I pulled off a full troubleshoot thread about it and the results "I" had. I had several runs with algae and rot, all that finished excellent btw.

A few notes
Cuts taken in anything other than rockwool or a cloner gave "me" poor results, always about 3 weeks into veg. Rapid rooters, peat pellets, and the like, harbor bad shit. Also if the net pots are resting directly on roots, this could damage em and cause die back.

A thought,
Consider that pythium is a fungus. One thing we know, it lives in the plant. I recently noticed a few mothers I take cuts from, for use in my coco and soil grows, seem perfect without issues. Yet in our Uc's, suffer root rot. While other mothers I have don't! Its conceivable to me that its possible there are algae and fungus' we have yet to learn, and to treat effectively. Pathogens (fungus, mildews,molds) can transfer from clone to clone.

Another thought,
Hbergs tea is not a perfect tea for water culture btw. Ewc MUST be used, along with the proper fungi and sugars. EWC is the main ingredient, great white, and zho, aren't perfect additives, A Forest is a must for great results as is molasses (sugar) Hi-brix is best Ive found in personal testing. You can cut the sugars but not entirely. Otherwise its 100% crap, literally! Cap has a great "water culture" fungi product. If tea isnt brewed right, it wouldnt help you, actually cause the opposite.
I read the tea info you provided,
I've posted three pictures of vegged plants in our veg systems before they enter the UC RDWC. These are in 20 gallon coolers that swing 62-65*, have 3 12" airstones from a 1hp commercial blower (chilled), running 5.5-6.0ph swing, ~350-400 Canna Veg A/B nutes, with a Heidelberg tea (ancient forest, mycos or EWC, aquashield, Great white or ZHO and molasses.)

This reads as several 2 part teas.. you need ewc, ancient forest, simple sugars of some type and a quality water culture fungi product. All in one brew, in the proper amounts, or you are adding dead bacteria only, to your system. Sorry man, just wanted to cover this some, in case you might have done it improperly.

ohiofarmer has a point. Good wishes.

Hogan,

This was helpful, thank you. All things I've covered but its a clear explanation, starting with basics.

Over the past month I've proven beyond a doubt that there is a variance in the water quality where we're at, something most people don't realize; Water isn't the same everywhere. I'm going to call CC and see what testing facility they use and then get Culligan to get it out of my water. :)

Otherwise the conversion to coco will continue ...

 

[hogan400]

Yeah, I hear ya. Just like the rest here, sometimes my posts are too damn long, but I like to cover things best I can. CCH2o is money and those guys treated me well. I feel its ur best and maybe quickest option, unless D.S knows of something smoother and faster?
good work man.