The root health challenge - Not for the inexperienced

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G

gold bar

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did not read whole thread

ive gone through similar

tried common band aids

gave up

two conclusions that we were never able to disprove/nullify

1. its in the damn water (too late now)
2. its in your chiller now (its been circulating said water)
 
lava

lava

75
8
Yes... no airstones in f/d e/f only recirculators.

does anyone second this? So many people who run e/f use air stones. But house & garden strictly advises against airstones since it breaks apart their nutes. I have not seen anything bad in veg where i do not use any airstones, but i still use them in bloom in my e/f
 
Quantum9

Quantum9

201
63
DS when you install this type of configuration in a clients grow is it neater? do you have all the hoses and wires running all willy nilly like in the pics? just curious.

peace,


Ham

I am not a water tech, though i took a few classes in ag school. That is all the work of Culligen and our plumber.

Come one guys one man can only do so much...

=P
 
Quantum9

Quantum9

201
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Yeah, I hear ya. Just like the rest here, sometimes my posts are too damn long, but I like to cover things best I can. CCH2o is money and those guys treated me well. I feel its ur best and maybe quickest option, unless D.S knows of something smoother and faster?
good work man.


Roots is the only product worth buying...

Other then that water analysis is priceless. Thats the only way to know how to proceed.
 
PrefersHam

PrefersHam

170
28
I am not a water tech, though i took a few classes in ag school. That is all the work of Culligen and our plumber.

Come one guys one man can only do so much...

=P

hahahahah right on.

Peace,


Ham
 
Mr.Sputnik

Mr.Sputnik

1,010
63
Has anyone tried Cocowet or another type of soap in their res (sterile system)? I have HEARD that's what Dutch Masters Zone is but can't confirm the hearsay.

I just recently had an issue with brown slime. It wasn't pythium, it didn't smell like sulphur or swamp poo. It smelt like nice dirt. I believe it was just an algae buildup as I didn't run covers on my tubs this run to see if I needed them or not (long story short, you need covers, light in res is bad). My tubs are home depot 27 gallon strong boxes, yellow lids, panda film cover.

The only other time I have seen this type of brown slime was about 8 years ago when I had one of these stupid things that let a ridiculous amount of light into the system.



I taped up the reservoir with black duct tape and it cut the problem way back but didn't fix it completely since the white "fence post" sites still let some light in.

Anyway, my RDWC system was crashing pretty hard a couple weeks ago (serious yellowing of fan leaves, slime) and I used 2.5ml per gallon of 34% peroxide initially to clean it up. I then added about a tablespoon of cocowet (in 250 gal system) and that seemed to make them bounce back in a few days. I have been adding 1.5ml per gallon of peroxide every 2-3 days and it has gone away/stopped and hasn't returned. Haven't drained the res yet. New root growth as well. The cocowet initially made a bit of a foam party for a minute but it went away in a couple of hours.

I ran molasses in a sterile system and that might be what caused it to brown up as well. I don't think I will run molasses again in a sterile system. I have run it before with the covers and not had a brown slime issue but the combo of light and sugar wasn't good this time.

What I run:
GH maxi powder nutes
GH diamond nectar humates
Maxicrop seaweed
grotek silica
cal mag
snowstorm at finish (I have seen white slime from this product in live resevoirs and it recommends to use it with peroxide)

I reuse my airstones but soak them in a pint of 34% h202 per 5 gallon bucket for a few hours after I have scrubbed them with simple green. It needs to be clean first, then you can sterilize it. no clean, no sterile. Goes for everything else.

Lesson learned for sterile systems; No molasses in system, no light in system, 1-2ml per gal 34% peroxide twice a week, and a little soap seems to be the best combo I have found to date.

Anyway, thoughts on using soap in a sterile system?
 
babyhughie586

babyhughie586

371
63
Has anyone tried Cocowet or another type of soap in their res (sterile system)? I have HEARD that's what Dutch Masters Zone is but can't confirm the hearsay.

I just recently had an issue with brown slime. It wasn't pythium, it didn't smell like sulphur or swamp poo. It smelt like nice dirt. I believe it was just an algae buildup as I didn't run covers on my tubs this run to see if I needed them or not (long story short, you need covers, light in res is bad). My tubs are home depot 27 gallon strong boxes, yellow lids, panda film cover.

The only other time I have seen this type of brown slime was about 8 years ago when I had one of these stupid things that let a ridiculous amount of light into the system.



I taped up the reservoir with black duct tape and it cut the problem way back but didn't fix it completely since the white "fence post" sites still let some light in.

Anyway, my RDWC system was crashing pretty hard a couple weeks ago (serious yellowing of fan leaves, slime) and I used 2.5ml per gallon of 34% peroxide initially to clean it up. I then added about a tablespoon of cocowet (in 250 gal system) and that seemed to make them bounce back in a few days. I have been adding 1.5ml per gallon of peroxide every 2-3 days and it has gone away/stopped and hasn't returned. Haven't drained the res yet. New root growth as well. The cocowet initially made a bit of a foam party for a minute but it went away in a couple of hours.

I ran molasses in a sterile system and that might be what caused it to brown up as well. I don't think I will run molasses again in a sterile system. I have run it before with the covers and not had a brown slime issue but the combo of light and sugar wasn't good this time.

What I run:
GH maxi powder nutes
GH diamond nectar humates
Maxicrop seaweed
grotek silica
cal mag
snowstorm at finish (I have seen white slime from this product in live resevoirs and it recommends to use it with peroxide)

I reuse my airstones but soak them in a pint of 34% h202 per 5 gallon bucket for a few hours after I have scrubbed them with simple green. It needs to be clean first, then you can sterilize it. no clean, no sterile. Goes for everything else.

Lesson learned for sterile systems; No molasses in system, no light in system, 1-2ml per gal 34% peroxide twice a week, and a little soap seems to be the best combo I have found to date.

Anyway, thoughts on using soap in a sterile system?
this thread is hella old.. Ditch the sterile system and go get yourself some ogbiowar and brew up the tea... You will have great results and never have to worry about the slime again
 
Mr.Sputnik

Mr.Sputnik

1,010
63
Tried going live for a over a year and nearly starved to death. Benni Teas, koi pond bacteria, water at 58 degrees, ect tried about everything. Horrible results, constant pythium problems with 2-3 weeks left to finish. Went back to sterile and only had issues when I didn't cover them up and didn't add peroxide for 3 weeks and the issues weren't nearly as bad as they were with the live res. I get better results sterile.

I'm not about to get into a live vs dead debate but I was just curious if anyone else had tried using soap in a sterile system. The soap/h202 combo killed the algae/slime that was on the sides of the buckets and cleaned up the root zone. Was curious if anyone had tried this before, I haven't seen it mentioned.
 
babyhughie586

babyhughie586

371
63
Tried going live for a over a year and nearly starved to death. Benni Teas, koi pond bacteria, water at 58 degrees, ect tried about everything. Horrible results, constant pythium problems with 2-3 weeks left to finish. Went back to sterile and only had issues when I didn't cover them up and didn't add peroxide for 3 weeks and the issues weren't nearly as bad as they were with the live res. I get better results sterile.

I'm not about to get into a live vs dead debate but I was just curious if anyone else had tried using soap in a sterile system. The soap/h202 combo killed the algae/slime that was on the sides of the buckets and cleaned up the root zone. Was curious if anyone had tried this before, I haven't seen it mentioned.
if u have that many problems its pry your water... i think it might be time to give up RDWC and go with soil/coco.... Soap?? No lol
 
Mr.Sputnik

Mr.Sputnik

1,010
63
CO mountain well water, had it tested, no bacteria, 200ppm, high in Ca, the ground up here is decomposed granite and not dirt. Tastes like bottled water from the tap. I have a friend in town (Denver) who ran the same system and had the exact same problems at the same time running the same live system. He ran a 1 micron water filter for that run. It wasn't the water, something in the recipe didn't work. He isn't having an issue since going dead res (besides some elephant rot on one of the stalks, big SCROG plants) as he is using covers for his reservoir and kept up with the peroxide. He did initially have something in his water that cleared up with the 1 micron filter and now he's going RO next run.

I doubt it's the water at my place. Some people can get live systems to work, some people get dead systems to work. I got lazy with my dead res, that's why it screwed up. I wanted to see if I could leave it without covers and it would be ok but that's not the case, I should have learned from past experience that light is a big problem. I've been running dead res for quite some time and had great results, thought I would try going live since so many people on this forum have said to try it and it didn't work for me. I doubt I'll have an issue with a dead system next run.

I really doubt there's one product you can just throw into the res and have it magically fix everything. I tried just about every recipe on this forum for live res systems and botched every crop so I'm not about to risk yet another live system crash on the ability of one product.
 
Mr.Sputnik

Mr.Sputnik

1,010
63
I didn't mention that the recirculating pump in the RDWC was clogged up with some root matter and was running slow as well so that wasn't good either. It's getting a better cleanout screen next run that won't clog so fast.

Jazam, if I had to take a shot at what the issue is I would bet it's light leaking into the system from somewhere. If you can see ANY light coming through plastic somewhere in the system it will cause that type of brown slime algae from my experience. Hold up the plastic to the brightest light around and if you can see light coming through, tape it up. I used to tape up everything with 2 layers of black duct tape (these were the days before black 5 gallon buckets and net pot bucket lids). I would try a system with as much black plastic as possible, a simple 5 gallon black dwc bucket with a netpot lid and a panda film cover and use different dead and live mixes in different buckets until you find one that works for you. I personally get the best results with dead res but to each their own. I completely understand how frustrating dwc and rdwc can be some times, it's taken me over 10 years and I still screw it up. New grows in new locations are their own animal. But when you nail it, it's worth every bit of frustration.
 
A

ape it

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8
If you are chilling the water with a chiller and circulating the nutrient solution through the chiller, that's probably your issue. You need to chill a separate Rez. The chiller will get messed up and so will your nutrient water if you pump it through the chiller.
 
Papa

Papa

Supporter
2,474
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If you are chilling the water with a chiller and circulating the nutrient solution through the chiller, that's probably your issue. You need to chill a separate Rez. The chiller will get messed up and so will your nutrient water if you pump it through the chiller.

ape it, can you explain what you mean by "messed up" and why this happens? are we talking bacteria or algae growth? and why does pumping the nute solution encourage one or the other?
 
A

ape it

38
8
Well the chiller has a coil inside that has coolant running through it. What will happen if you pump nutrient solution through your chiller is that the nutrient solution will build up on the coil and prevent the chiller from cooling the water properly. It will have to work harder, thus shortening the life expectancy of the chiller.
Nutrients will also deprecate faster as well....think about it if you have 75 deg nutrient mix and are running it into a chiller that has an internal temp of (55 deg to get the water chilled to 65) you are creating a unstable environment for the nutes which causes break down.
If you watch set ups on YouTube from hydro innovations, you will see that they recommend using a separate Rez To chill, as so does every other chiller company.
 
Papa

Papa

Supporter
2,474
163
yes, i've watched the all the hydro innovations videos many times . . . . and they recommend utilizing their cool coils ($150 for a 20' stainless coil) . . . and i understand the advantage of using a manifold and coils if one is cooling several systems with one chiller . . . . but i'm trying to understand the pros and cons of using a small chiller for a single system, with and without the coil and rez.

your first point, "the nutrient solution will build up on the coil and prevent the chiller from cooling the water properly. It will have to work harder, thus shortening the life expectancy of the chiller." what builds up on the coil? salts? if so, why doesn't the nutrient solution dissolve the salts off the coils? if this is the case, why don't the salts build up on the cool coil when i run it in my nutrient solution?

your second point, "Nutrients will also deprecate faster as well....think about it if you have 75 deg nutrient mix and are running it into a chiller that has an internal temp of (55 deg to get the water chilled to 65) you are creating a unstable environment for the nutes which causes break down." When i run my nutrient solution directly through my chiller, and i want the solution to be 67°, I set the chiller to 65°. this will maintain my nutrient solution spot on 67° lights on and lights off. when i utilize a cool coil and rez, with the same system, i have to run the chiller at 55° to keep the system between 62°-67°. the temperature varies significantly in the system. and the coil in the nute solution is inline right after the chiller, so it's at 55° in the nutes instead of the nutes being in the chiller that is set for 65°. so which is deprecating the nutes faster?

i've run it both ways, first with the nutes through the chiller then later with utilizing the rez and coil, and i much prefer having the temperature stability that the nutes through the chiller provided . . . . and that chiller has continued working over 2-1/2 years . . . so i'm trying to understand if there is some advantage that i've missed so far.

have you run systems both ways, and what's your experience been?
 
A

ape it

38
8
I have never run nute solution through my one ton chiller. I cool 3- 50 gal uc8xl, 1- 100 gal uc8xl13 and 40 gal f and d system with this chiller. Stainless steel is great but it still is porous, which will let nutrients and bacteria grow on it. Its easier to clean a remote coil in your rez then in your chiller. I cant open my chiller and clean that coil.
The remote coils I use.... http://www.nybrewsupply.com/beer-ho...s-steel-wort-chiller-w-brass-gh-fittings.html. They work great and for only $50.

When you set your chiller at 65 the coolant in the coil isn't 65 its more like 55. so all the nutrient solution around the coil is probably dropping from 67 to 58 deg. Very unstable.

Using a separate rez setup has worked for me. And I dont get the brown root issue. But do what works for you.
Download
 
babyhughie586

babyhughie586

371
63
I have never run nute solution through my one ton chiller. I cool 3- 50 gal uc8xl, 1- 100 gal uc8xl13 and 40 gal f and d system with this chiller. Stainless steel is great but it still is porous, which will let nutrients and bacteria grow on it. Its easier to clean a remote coil in your rez then in your chiller. I cant open my chiller and clean that coil.
The remote coils I use.... http://www.nybrewsupply.com/beer-ho...s-steel-wort-chiller-w-brass-gh-fittings.html. They work great and for only $50.

When you set your chiller at 65 the coolant in the coil isn't 65 its more like 55. so all the nutrient solution around the coil is probably dropping from 67 to 58 deg. Very unstable.

Using a separate rez setup has worked for me. And I dont get the brown root issue. But do what works for you.
View attachment 346594
I have now been running my water from my system through the chiller for 3 years... Never any problems... Most recently ive run both sterile and live system... I dont think running the water through the chiller causes any problems... MAYBE if you get lazy and let water sit in your chiller for an extended period of time you could have negative effects.. But if u do everything normal i dont see and havent experienced any problems..

I should also note that i bought my chiller used.. The previous owner also ran his nute solution through the chiller
 
A

ape it

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Now that I have read this entire thread.....mr. Sput you have way too many issues. Take my advice. Get rid of all the crap you are throwing in your system. Go steril and keep it simple. A+b veg. A+b flower. And uc roots. That's it!Image
 
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