TMV The final answer!

Tobor the 8th Man

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My Chem D has a mottled variegated look to it's leaves, especially after cloning. I can get it corrected and get the new leaves green and the old leaves improved before I put it under 12/12. It seems to just be a nutrient hog. My The White cut also has this sometimes to a much lesser degree. They flower fine, yield good and produce very dank pot. It just takes a bit longer veg to get them looking good. However, the symptoms can show up again when you start the flush or back off the cal/mag too soon. But it is always in the back of my mind "Do I have TMV?". The are people who say the Chem D has the virus. Or at least some circles of the Chem D have TMV. They say this because it has the symptoms I mentioned.

Now I have to say when other people show their Chem D pictures with the bad leaves they don't even have it 1/4 of what mine looks like sometimes. The leaves seem healthy except for the washed out mottled color that has shades of like green, grey and sometimes almost white or silver splotches. So I figure if any Chem D cut ever had TMV mine should be the one.

I saw on IC where a guy with the Chem D was tired of people wondering if it had it and even though his had no signs he did a test and it tested negative for TMV.

So I decided I would send away for the test kit. This is from an agricultural lab. They sell test kits for people to save their crops and are not cannabis related. These guys are very well respected and there stuff is tested and works and has no hype involved just results.

I bought 5 Immunostrips for $27.50. They sell 5 or 24 for $105.

The test strips are foolproof. If no lines show up the test is invalid and the sample was no good. If the top control line is present the test is valid and negative. If there is another line (marker) under the control line then the test is positive.

No if you get a positive test there are 5 other viruses that will test positive but they have very different symptoms. But still to be sure you would have to buy a $400 assay tray kit to further find out what one it is.

If it is negative you don't have any of them. Well the results for my Chem D using several samples of leaves from 2 leaves with full blown syptoms were...drum roll......... NEGATIVE!

There is no more doubt for me. I just have a nut hog Chem D. It could also just be a genetic trait in the Chem D. I made a cross of Chem D and Original Haze. I have one haze leaning female and one Chem D leaning female. The Chem D pheno has 2 branches out of 8 that has the symptoms. This is when I got worried and thought my Chem D had TMV because TMV can be carried through a seed. I don't know if I would have tossed it but I would have had a big decision.

But the test was NEGATIVE! :banana:
 
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Wow...negative..interesting...very happy to hear that. Would that just mean variegated mutation then?
 
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Nice!
Excellent research bro.
I've had a couple of phenos in the past do it that were hard to root and usually got unhealthy as they were rooting and took a bit to grow out of it an still the occasional leaf had it>>> it didn't seem to affect anything else.Some of the leaves would have blades that were affected and blades that were not on the same leaf?
Thank's for doing the testing and research bro as this is very interesting.......
 
i have a cut of OG platnium that I cant get to root for anything, Ive tried 6 times now in rockwool, power cloner, and rapid rooters with 10% to 0% rooting and other cuts right next to them im getting %90-100 When i grow a new mom i get healthy and them it seem to get leaves that wilt or discolor easy if I skip a feed. I really think something is wrong with it I may have to ditch it. I have some bros that want it, so I may pass it out and see if anyone else can get it going. Its really bomb and once I get clones going and healthy they are easy to flower.
 

Tobor the 8th Man

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That is how some of my leaves look mitten. Some much worse. I will post some pics up in the morning with lights on.

It is a wierd thing. It could be just a genetic mutation. At least I can not feel guilty because I smoke around my plants sometimes. I don't have Tobacco Mosaic Virus. No TMV.

WHEW!!!

I am going to test The White tomorrow and the branch on the Chem D x Orig Haze. I have 4 more kits so I might as well use them. They need to be refrigerated and they have a shelf life so why waste them.
 

xX Kid Twist Xx

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cool tobar. how acurate are these tests? are u able to locate a plant that has TMV to see if it shows up in these test's? it be cool if u could then u could really put the issue to rest
 

Tobor the 8th Man

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These tests are accurate. These are for professional agriculture places. Huge greenhouses and farms like tobacco farms. They have to know what is up and they have to have something accurate and easy to use.

They are advertised as a reliable way to test in the field and can be used by layman with no expertise or additional equipment. Dipstick technology has been around in the agricultural and medical world for quite some time.When I talked to one of the lab guys on the phone he said there was less than 1% chance you could get a false positive but that would be revealed when you did the next test to find out what virus you actually had. But he said it was almost impossible to get a false negative if you had a valid control marker showing up.

IMHO my particular case is closed Kid Twist. It will really be closed if I get 2 more negative results tomorrow.

This is an example of there is still supplies and equipment that can help us in this hobby. That site has test kits for more things than you can imagine. 7 pages of stuff. There is probably other sites with shit we don't even know about.

It's amazing really. Some pot smoking and growing hippy was testing specimens for TMV in his house. We have come a long way baby. There is more stuff to help us we just have to find it. Start using these scientific agricultural sites. See what they have and what they know.

I found this stuff that farmers can put on food crops like wheat and corn and that field will have absolutely no mildew, molds or rusts no matter what condition are present. I just have to find it again. It was a red powder. And had a name like Zorgon or something. I didn't get it at the time because you had to buy 100 lb drums and it was like $1500 a drum. You applied it once at the beginning of the season and it lasted all season. I have seen red powder stains in a corn field and wondered what it was.
 
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Hi Tobor...really nice to see your professionel scientific approach to the discolorations. Kudos

I have it too, on the cuts, not a lot, but some spots the leaves on the D and the White, are just a lighter color green.....otherwise they are doing fine, just transplanted them to 5 gallon bucket's. They will be flowered in those when ready LOL

I give them 100 Ec MgSo4 every other watering and it seemed to stop the discolorations on the new growth.

Still, ugly bitches can surprise and do tricks you never expected, or get from the pinup bimbo....

Stay safe...thanx for sharing
 
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thanks tobor for taking the time to look into that n it put my mind at ease a bit.. look forward to seeing ur results on the next 1's...

w.wonka
 

Seamaiden

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TMV ='s what now?
Tobacco Mosaic Virus.

Tobor, what about all the other mosaic viruses out there? Did they have similar tests for those as well, or perhaps an all-in-one test? This appears to have been a very specific test. I'm glad to read it's not TMV, but am still leaning toward a disease like a mosaic virus because few other plant species show that sort of wrinkling concurrently with variegation. I have seen many that show ruffling on leaf margins and similar, but never quite that sort of bilater variegation and crepiness (like crepe paper).

I know it can be vectored because I've seen it expressed in cuttings where the mother never showed a thing, all except The White were from seeds I started myself.
 
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I just talked to a professional Orchid grower about TMV, and she claims to be somewhat of an expert on the matter. She says that no way do these cuts have TMV, if that was the case, she said, I would be losing crops due to dying plants.
 

Tobor the 8th Man

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The Original Haze was from Seedsman which is supposedly the original line he got from somebody.

Seamaiden I agree it could still be some other kind of virus or pathogen. It might not be but it has just as good or better chance of another pathogen as it does just being a genetic mutation. When I first got The White it didn't have any symptoms that I noticed. The Chem D always did as soon as I got it. The fact that The White has similar but not exactly the same symptoms makes me wonder.

The company has over 100 viruses that you can order test kits from. This one tested for several different viruses but they only tested it on it's effectiveness with TMV.

Here is what their site says on this test.

The TMV ImmunoStrip detects a variety of viruses from the tobamovirus group. Our experience shows that the test can detect the following: Cucumber green mottle mosaic virus (CGMMV), Kyuri green mottle mosaic virus, Odontoglossum rinspot virus (ORSV), Pepper mild mottle virus (PMMoV), Ribgrass mosaic virus (RMV), Streptocarpus flower break virus (SFBV), Sunhemp mosaic virus (SHMV), Tobacco mosaic virus including common strain (TMV and TMV-c), Tomato mosaic virus (ToMV). This test, however, is not a tobamovirus group test and was tested for its effectiveness at detecting TMV.

Many off the viruses can be eliminated because they cause necrosis or leaf damage where it is obvious the leaf isn't working properly anymore. Some are specific to certain plants. There are a dozen or so "Mosaic" viruses that could possibly be the culprit.

I am in the process of looking up each one to see if one looks similar. Many of the mosaic ones are quite different though. They look different. Like one the "petunia mosaic virus" the leaves get a very pale yellow green but the veins stay green. The pale yellow is the entire leaf. I eliminated this as a possibility. Hopefully I can narrow it down to a few of them and order test kits. Maybe none of them will look like this. Because so far TMV is the only one that does look like this that I have seen. But there are lots more to research.

I do think I have established concrete evidence that this is not TMV and that is important to me. TMV is what most people talk about or say the Chem D has. The cut I have does not have TMV.

It's a start.

I am also going back to my aspirin water because acetylsalicylic acid boosts a plants immune response to fight many different pathogens including molds and viruses and it also interferes with the virus itself and slows it from reproducing and slows growth. Many professional gardeners are using it because research shows it does work.

One of the theories is you keep spraying the plant while you veg it and feed it. Get the leaves looking good. Then when there is a lot of new healthy growth you take a few of the perfectly healthy looking tops and root them. Then you veg them while feeding and spraying and even if they look perfect you still just take a few very top shoots and root them. These are the ones you keep and hopefully you got rid of whatever was the problem pathogen. This is what I am going to do now.
 

Tobor the 8th Man

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Capo the lab tech guy I talked to also said if you have crops with TMV they just get progressively worse and basically you have crop failure. I think there is misinformation on the canna sites because people say the TMV can be contained and plants can improve during veg. Probably because that is what happens with my plants and some people think they have TMV when they don't.

TMV is highly feared with tobacco farmers. They burn the entire crop and treat the fields and don't use them for awhile if at all ever again. It's basically their worst nightmare. Their first defense is to burn. That says it all.
 

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