B
well said, people just don't understand and instead are being selfish when they want you to vote yes for a commercialization being called legalization. On top of not understanding what they are trying to promote they don't even live in cali where this would affect them...no, he meant prop 19 wont keep anyone out of jail for cannabis. which is true.
our laws in california are already lax enough, its less than 100 dollar fine for anyone caught with up to an ounce without a medical rec. prop 19 will be putting more people in jail for cannabis then our current law for numerous reasons.
im all for "legalization"... but prop 19 is not legalization in any shape or form. its taxation and regulation. nothing more. just because the news calls it legalization doesnt mean its true.
prop 19 is one of the worst things that could happen for our cannabis movement.
Ok so below is the section from 19 you say will protect us from this. Below that is the section from 215 that says something similar. Taking someone's weed away or their plants or whatever is "sanctioning" them, so please tell me what magical words are so different there that will actually prevent that from happening.
Local law enforcement doesn't follow the "law;" they follow policy as determined by the AG etc.
19 doesn't have some new magic shield that will actually get cities to give mj patients or rec users their rights.
Patients and users alike will still have to fight with the locals for their rights, just like with 215.
sanction law definition
n
A penalty imposed for violating accepted social norms. A sanction may be civil or criminal in nature. Criminal sanctions are either fine, imprisonment, or both.
Looks pretty different to me, much more clarity than 215 provides, but I don't think it would make any difference to you if Johnny Cochran himself told you so. Your commitment to opposition seems religious.
Then what was the point of 215? or your argument for waiting until 2012 to pass a better prop?
Cooley says he's "just enforcing the law" - saying Californians passed the Compassionate Care Act which allows non-profit collectives - not the "medical sales and dispensary act", and that dispensaries are merely storefronts for drug dealers. If he wins the race for state AG, and I'm glad you pointed this out - he'll be the state's top cop, and be able to make life real tough for dispensaries. Count on it. It's not like the status quo is gonna be protected by preventing 19 from passing. But one of the stated purposes of 19 is to "Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.", which is a handy statement for a lawyer to have.
I want what you're smoking. The language in 19 for baseline legalization is pretty clear - no $150 doctor's note required. Cooley will no longer be able to say that he's "just enforcing state law" if he's contradicting it.
Under 215, a cop doesn't know if your rec is real, so unless it's a state issued card, he can easily harass you (legally) and let the judge sort it out ... or cite you with the weed smokers tax ... hurray. Under 19, if a cop catches me holding an 1/8th and I'm 21, he won't be able to do shit because possession will no longer be illegal - no "questionable" medical exemption has to be proven. But you already know that (=disingenuous). If law enforcement isn't following the law, should be pretty easy to get it thrown out of court. I wouldn't even bother with a lawyer.
You mean to keep dispensaries open? I would expect so since 215 never legally established them - they live in the grey area. Re: "just like" - wasn't fighting for 215 worth it?
At this point no one is changing anyone else's mind. We'll see what happens on Tuesday and that will be that. FTR, I admit that I'm not waiting for "the perfect" proposition and that my focus is ending Prohibition nationally.
lol....Do you live in Cali?
Why is it your focus to end prohibition nationally?
Wouldn't your time be better served introducing legislation in a NON-MED state.....if you really want to end national prohibition?
Because this isn't gonna end it.
This is gonna be a slap in the face to the feds....THEY SAID IT PEOPLE.....DUH.....
so why dont you believe him? The DEA SAID they are gonna fuck with the med MJ scene if Cali tries across the board legalization
Think he made it up on his own?
Fuck no.
Obama already backed up.... Thats the political climate. Thats how it will go down if this passes. It will be a crippling blow to legalization...not the salvation of legalization
The DEA is passing down policy from above. (the white house.....)
Wouldn't it be smarter to get the whole nation on the medical program and then try to backdoor complete legalization? You guys dont get it....they are still handing out 20 years in the deep south for over a QP of schwag. I have a friend that did 10 years ..day for day over possesion of 3 ounces of booty weed.
So why not start a nationwide med campaign to educate the masses. Because many still equate MJ with crack and heroin. Then....and ONLY then...when it has been recieved by the med comunity...will be able to move forward.
If we pass this now and fuck up the med scene...we may never get it back. Nothing to do with profits and greed.
AGAIN...THE DEA SAID IT WILL FUCK WITH THE MMJ SCENE IF WE PASS THIS....WHY DONT YOU BELIEVE THEM?!?!?!?!?
Darth--I think there's some misunderstanding somewhere. My point was just that how things actually play out and what police are actually told to do is often different from how we hope things read. I have some in-laws who are officers and sergeant in one of the local police forces. He said he's been told to tear down all gardens regardless. If they want to fight it in the courts later, they can.
215 should prevent that; it doesn't. I just don't believe that 19 would either and the difference between a ticket and not isn't much.
And how is my stance any more "religious" than your own? I actually am/was open. I just love a good argument. It makes me sad to say no to something that is similar to what we have all wanted for many years, but I think grown ups should look at all the sides and pick the best thing for the long run, not the bright shiny thing that kinda looks like what we want. And I'm not trying to call you a kid with that, just trying to explain my thinking.
Interesting point, Seamaiden.
And hbstoner, the differences with another prop would be, IMHO...
1 The actual support of the majority of growers who can be very vocal and garner more positive public opinion
2 More time for the average Californians to gain acceptance of not only medical mj, but recreational
3 The possibility of rescheduling of MJ at the federal level
4 And of course, a better written prop
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