Understanding Cultivar-specificity And Soil Determinants Of The Cannabis Microbiome

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jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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Well thanks everyone for contributing. I truly appreciate everyones insight. I really enjoyed wrapping my head around this stuff. I found that if I wasn't medicated too much, and just took my time and reread in areas that seemed foggy along with using the dictionary to grasp words I didn't understand it actually got easier as I went.

So the old saying proved true. " Thru the doing, comes the understanding"

Also noticed the Delta9 Labs was involved in this work. Which was kool.
 
caveman4.20

caveman4.20

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I replant same clones in same raised beds, I figure if bacteria and fungus are host plant specific, I have a culture that will flourish as long as a living host plants roots are present.

Am I on the same page here?
Your on the same page and I'm going to take that a bit further if you don't mind trying something?
 
caveman4.20

caveman4.20

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me and you are on the same page,,, intense reading ... this is more my level of experiments and the ones I follow, more fun watching these kids experiments crash and burn than getting a head ache googling... lol
http://www.plantingscience.org/inde...&tid=2&filter1=core.approvalState:eq:approved
OK so this article is reminding me of self defense mechanisms the plant has like a Northern Lights repelling spider mites, there must be plants that repel root pest due to the symbiotic relationship between the plants expression via root ecology.....

For instance I know that cannabis can feed a living soil with its root exudates coming from reserves. With that said I think there's a causal relationship between the tiny film between roots and soil from which endomicorizae grows and the immunity of plant. Now the efficacy of that immunity depends on whether or not the specific bacteria or fungus or larvae of whatever beneficial microorganism is present.

Now to ensure maximization of immunity we need to ensure a dominating beneficial root ecology exist. How do I do that? I do it with the advice of Dr. Elaine Ingham. I remember the metaphor being a plants surface area roots and foliage is a clean slate with food. To ensure a beneficial root ecology one must introduce it soon and provide an encouraging environment for the beneficials to flourish. With beneficials taking up that clean slate and eating up available food that leaves no space and no food for root pest and foliage pest. So once this ecology is at a balance each pest in proximity will boost plant defense mechanisms vigorous growth being one of them.

My bad just got high and board peace and rhizospheres grease
 
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caveman4.20

caveman4.20

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@caveman4.20 luv your comments!
Thanks, I can't take all the credit. They are mainly a composition of other people's great advice blended together by yours truly. Long blunted nights bloated with budwiser in the ethylened air of ripening family heirlooms!!!
 
lino

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That video explains why Alfalfa roots go 20' down. I always thought is was the genotypes of Alfalfa, makes sense now... I hated plowing old alfalfa fields, like plowing a tree roots. Alfalfa fields dont get plowed very often, huh go figure... Id like to take a class from that Dr, she is bad ass... I like her style of lecture.
 
caveman4.20

caveman4.20

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There's plenty on you tube. I foliar feed based on the principles she teaches.
 
Blaze

Blaze

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Ok, read this whole study when it was first posted, and again today. It is some pretty intense reading but this was what I gleaned from it and the questions that came to mind:

"A core community of microbes was present in all samples regardless or soil properties and strain." Samples were not pre-inoculated, so these microbes are apparently present in most (maybe all?) soils, and the observed variations occurred on their own. I think that this would mean in theory you could isolate these core microbes and have a base inoculation pack of sorts, kind of like Cap's Bennies, for indoor growers. This also got me thinking that if this core community occurred naturally and spontaneously, that if one is growing outdoors or in a greenhouse, inoculation is not needed - you simply need to crate a favorable environment and the microbes will colonize the soil all on their own. It would be very interesting to see if these same core microbes are present in other parts of the country and other parts of the world.

"Soil properties determine microbial community composition, but abundance was determined by cultivar". Certain strains favor certain microbes but ultimately the soil has the largest impact. This was no surprise to me - my theory with growing has been that it is 'all about the soil'. Other than genetics, in my experience the soil has the largest impact on yield, plant health, quality, disease and pest resistance, etc. Now if you have grown much outdoors you have probably noticed that even the same clone will grow differently depending on it's environment. Weather, location, soil, and other environmental factors can produce a fairly broad range of expression even within the same phenotype. It would seem that the soil microbes are yet another factor in this variation. I though it was very interesting that different strains seem to select for specific amount of the different microbes - which makes me wonder why certain strains select for these particular microbes at specific levels, and why it is not the same for all strains.

"Higher THC composition and concentration was found plants from one of the soil types". This to me was one of the most interesting lines of the whole study. I have usually regarded methods of increasing THC to be largely be a bunch of BS (specially the THC booster products sold in hydro stores). However you do see potency variation even with the same clone - usually as a result of environment. Better environment makes for a healthier plant, a healthier plant can reach it's pull potential, hence slightly higher potency. Other than UV radiation, there have been few proven ways to boost potency. However, it appears that a properly structured microbial community and a specific soil type did result in higher potency. So what I want to know - which I did not see in the study - is what type of soil resulted higher potency? That would be pretty amazing if something as simple altering your soil properties could actually boost potency. Again I find this intuitive - soil properties determine so many other factors, why not THC composition and concentration as well?

However, the "association between microbiota and THC was very hard to disassociate from soil physicochemical variables". Ultimately this means it might be the soil itself, not so much the microbes that resulted in increased potency. Sounds like further study is needed on this one.

"Nitrogen had the strongest effect in structuring the [microbial] communities, followed by carbon and water." No surprise with that one - nitrogen and the nitrogen cycle plays a HUGE part in how cannabis grows. Cannabis is a nutrient hog, especially when it comes to nitrogen, and consumes more nitrogen than any other plant (at least that I am aware of). So it would seem that nitrogen has a big impact not just not on the plant itself, but the microbes in the soil as well. I think with more study one could really fine tune their nitrogen inputs to maximize the soil microbes, which would in turn maximize the performance of the plant itself.

Finally, "Cellvibrio was an indication of root decay." This could be very, very useful if there was an easy way to test the level of Cellvibrio in the soil. It could act as an early warning system of sorts before root decay took hold. Unfortunately if you do have root decay/stem rot by the time physical symptoms appear it is usually too late to save the plant. Knowing ahead of time that you have a potential problem would be a massive advantage.

Anyway, some pretty interesting info to mull over. I'd be curious what a real scientists take would be on this. Regardless it is further evidence to how important soil microbes are, and how little we really understand about them at this point.
 
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jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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Ok, read this whole study when it was first posted, and again today. It is some pretty intense reading but this was what I gleaned from it and the questions that came to mind:

"A core community of microbes was present in all samples regardless or soil properties and strain." Samples were not pre-inoculated, so these microbes are apparently present in most (maybe all?) soils, and the observed variations occurred on their own. I think that this would mean in theory you could isolate these core microbes and have a base inoculation pack of sorts, kind of like Cap's Bennies, for indoor growers. This also got me thinking that if this core community occurred naturally and spontaneously, that if one is growing outdoors or in a greenhouse, inoculation is not needed - you simply need to crate a favorable environment and the microbes will colonize the soil all on their own. It would be very interesting to see if these same core microbes are present in other parts of the country and other parts of the world.

"Soil properties determine microbial community composition, but abundance was determined by cultivar". Certain strains favor certain microbes but ultimately the soil has the largest impact. This was no surprise to me - my theory with growing has been that it is 'all about the soil'. Other than genetics, in my experience the soil has the largest impact on yield, plant health, quality, disease and pest resistance, etc. Now if you have grown much outdoors you have probably noticed that even the same clone will grow differently depending on it's environment. Weather, location, soil, and other environmental factors can produce a fairly broad range of expression even within the same phenotype. It would seem that the soil microbes are yet another factor in this variation. I though it was very interesting that different strains seem to select for specific amount of the different microbes - which makes me wonder why certain strains select for these particular microbes at specific levels, and why it is not the same for all strains.

"Higher THC composition and concentration was found plants from one of the soil types". This to me was one of the most interesting lines of the whole study. I have usually regarded methods of increasing THC to be largely be a bunch of BS (specially the THC booster products sold in hydro stores). However you do see potency variation even with the same clone - usually as a result of environment. Better environment makes for a healthier plant, a healthier plant can reach it's pull potential, hence slightly higher potency. Other than UV radiation, there have been few proven ways to boost potency. However, it appears that a properly structured microbial community and a specific soil type did result in higher potency. So what I want to know - which I did not see in the study - is what type of soil resulted higher potency? That would be pretty amazing if something as simple altering your soil properties could actually boost potency. Again I find this intuitive - soil properties determine so many other factors, why not THC composition and concentration as well?

However, the "association between microbiota and THC was very hard to disassociate from soil physicochemical variables". Ultimately this means it might be the soil itself, not so much the microbes that resulted in increased potency. Sounds like further study is needed on this one.

"Nitrogen had the strongest effect in structuring the [microbial] communities, followed by carbon and water." No surprise with that one - nitrogen and the nitrogen cycle plays a HUGE part in how cannabis grows. Cannabis is a nutrient hog, especially when it comes to nitrogen, and consumes more nitrogen than any other plant (at least that I am aware of). So it would seem that nitrogen has a big impact not just not on the plant itself, but the microbes in the soil as well. I think with more study one could really fine tune their nitrogen inputs to maximize the soil microbes, which would in turn maximize the performance of the plant itself.

Finally, "Cellvibrio was an indication of root decay." This could be very, very useful if there was an easy way to test the level of Cellvibrio in the soil. It could act as an early warning system of sorts before root decay took hold. Unfortunately if you do have root decay/stem rot by the time physical symptoms appear it is usually too late to save the plant. Knowing ahead of time that you have a potential problem would be a massive advantage.

Anyway, some pretty interesting info the mull over. I'd be curious what a real scientists take would be on this. Regardless it is further evidence to how important soil microbes are, and how little we really understand about them at this point.

@Blaze Damn man, thank you. Very nice summary of your understanding of that paper. I appreciate it. You were able to put it in a form easier for me to grasp, (laymans terms) as is it what you accomplished. .......Thanks for taking the time. If you were here, I would hand you a beer and a bong!!!!! Or any method of your choosing .

Much respect..........
 
caveman4.20

caveman4.20

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I'm losing faith in scientist more and more. Elaine Ingham may be a sham. I have to do more fact checks first but this arena seems wide open for exploration and I have a.feeling there will be more contreversy then clarity
Ok, read this whole study when it was first posted, and again today. It is some pretty intense reading but this was what I gleaned from it and the questions that came to mind:

"A core community of microbes was present in all samples regardless or soil properties and strain." Samples were not pre-inoculated, so these microbes are apparently present in most (maybe all?) soils, and the observed variations occurred on their own. I think that this would mean in theory you could isolate these core microbes and have a base inoculation pack of sorts, kind of like Cap's Bennies, for indoor growers. This also got me thinking that if this core community occurred naturally and spontaneously, that if one is growing outdoors or in a greenhouse, inoculation is not needed - you simply need to crate a favorable environment and the microbes will colonize the soil all on their own. It would be very interesting to see if these same core microbes are present in other parts of the country and other parts of the world.

"Soil properties determine microbial community composition, but abundance was determined by cultivar". Certain strains favor certain microbes but ultimately the soil has the largest impact. This was no surprise to me - my theory with growing has been that it is 'all about the soil'. Other than genetics, in my experience the soil has the largest impact on yield, plant health, quality, disease and pest resistance, etc. Now if you have grown much outdoors you have probably noticed that even the same clone will grow differently depending on it's environment. Weather, location, soil, and other environmental factors can produce a fairly broad range of expression even within the same phenotype. It would seem that the soil microbes are yet another factor in this variation. I though it was very interesting that different strains seem to select for specific amount of the different microbes - which makes me wonder why certain strains select for these particular microbes at specific levels, and why it is not the same for all strains.

"Higher THC composition and concentration was found plants from one of the soil types". This to me was one of the most interesting lines of the whole study. I have usually regarded methods of increasing THC to be largely be a bunch of BS (specially the THC booster products sold in hydro stores). However you do see potency variation even with the same clone - usually as a result of environment. Better environment makes for a healthier plant, a healthier plant can reach it's pull potential, hence slightly higher potency. Other than UV radiation, there have been few proven ways to boost potency. However, it appears that a properly structured microbial community and a specific soil type did result in higher potency. So what I want to know - which I did not see in the study - is what type of soil resulted higher potency? That would be pretty amazing if something as simple altering your soil properties could actually boost potency. Again I find this intuitive - soil properties determine so many other factors, why not THC composition and concentration as well?

However, the "association between microbiota and THC was very hard to disassociate from soil physicochemical variables". Ultimately this means it might be the soil itself, not so much the microbes that resulted in increased potency. Sounds like further study is needed on this one.

"Nitrogen had the strongest effect in structuring the [microbial] communities, followed by carbon and water." No surprise with that one - nitrogen and the nitrogen cycle plays a HUGE part in how cannabis grows. Cannabis is a nutrient hog, especially when it comes to nitrogen, and consumes more nitrogen than any other plant (at least that I am aware of). So it would seem that nitrogen has a big impact not just not on the plant itself, but the microbes in the soil as well. I think with more study one could really fine tune their nitrogen inputs to maximize the soil microbes, which would in turn maximize the performance of the plant itself.

Finally, "Cellvibrio was an indication of root decay." This could be very, very useful if there was an easy way to test the level of Cellvibrio in the soil. It could act as an early warning system of sorts before root decay took hold. Unfortunately if you do have root decay/stem rot by the time physical symptoms appear it is usually too late to save the plant. Knowing ahead of time that you have a potential problem would be a massive advantage.

Anyway, some pretty interesting info to mull over. I'd be curious what a real scientists take would be on this. Regardless it is further evidence to how important soil microbes are, and how little we really understand about them at this point.
I love soil, I need to learn more thanks for the breakdown
 
Blaze

Blaze

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I'm losing faith in scientist more and more. Elaine Ingham may be a sham. I have to do more fact checks first but this arena seems wide open for exploration and I have a.feeling there will be more contreversy then clarity

I love soil, I need to learn more thanks for the breakdown

What makes you say Ingham may be a sham?
 
caveman4.20

caveman4.20

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What makes you say Ingham may be a sham?
Let me see if we could get some clarification @SeaF0ur I read a few post but can't remember specifics right now?

I apply some of her advice with confidence. I'm just now coming a cross negative reviews....
 
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