Understanding Micronutrients

[Homesteader]

Im not understanding....
This isn't my thread, so have at it if it pertains to micros. There are other threads about gas exchange though.

 

[Homesteader]

Understanding micronutrients only really comes into play when you are creating a soil mix or troubleshooting a field. Most cannabis growers are not farmers though, so the need to understand the why's isn't important. If someone is creating a new soil mix every round, they probably aren't going to run into a boron issue three years from now, but boron leaches like sulfur does, which means possible deficiency in future grows for growers . If you didn't understand that, well you may risk wasting money "chasing" your tail.
The other approach is the overload.....which is why organic growing is potentially just as dirty as conventional.

 

[Organikz]

Understanding micronutrients only really comes into play when you are creating a soil mix or troubleshooting a field. Most cannabis growers are not farmers though, so the need to understand the why's isn't important. If someone is creating a new soil mix every round, they probably aren't going to run into a boron issue three years from now, but boron leaches like sulfur does, which means possible deficiency in future grows for growers . If you didn't understand that, well you may risk wasting money "chasing" your tail.
The other approach is the overload.....which is why organic growing is potentially just as dirty as conventional.

Overload a living organic soil? We utilize biochar, pumice, and our soil biology effectively eliminates leaching if the biology is right. Humus is the most important nutrient to the organic grower. These micronutrients would naturally be restored if we are in fact talking living organic soil....microherds are called that for a reason...

When we are "creating a mix" compost and ewc does all this work and worrying for us.

 

[Homesteader]

Yes overload a living soil happens all the time, just look at the no tillers on sites all over. Nothing comes from nothing remember that. Soil biology eliminates leaching>??? ok if you say so, maybe minimizing watering does. microbes do not restore or replensish, they eat breathe and shit.
Natually restored by????? top dressing. No offense but a few of your statements above are not factual and I don't live in fantasy worlds to appease others as you can tell by my lack of care that I am not liked around here.

I grow organically pal with living soil

 

[Organikz]

Yes overload a living soil happens all the time, just look at the no tillers on sites all over. Nothing comes from nothing remember that. Soil biology eliminates leaching>??? ok if you say so, maybe minimizing watering does.
Natually restored by????? top dressing. No offense but a few of your statements above are not factual and I don't live in fantasy worlds to appease others.

I grow organically pal with living soil

Micro organisms attract ionicly charged minerals and transport them throughout the soil. Humus can balance soil solution chemistry if it's out of wack. Carbon holds a neutral charge.

How are they overloading their soil? If you know the most updated recipe it's no problem however I don't think there ever was. No till gardening is never a problem of excess. If it is that's a misdiagnosis.

Your first cycle or two are always interesting. I run into potassium deficiency regularly. I don't pay attention to yellow tips. The only way to load your soil is magnesium. That's it.

Plants dictate nutrient uptake. We're not tuning an organ here. This is where man is even trying to control a natural form of growing. Measuring and mixing and adding and subtracting.

When you read the recipes it says 1/2 to 1 cup per cuF for most amendments. Now that's a big difference. So what say you? Should you tell Clackamas to get his calculator out? If you've been working your soil you have an idea of what it needs and doesn't need. Right now I know that my beds are almost due for a top dress by observing.

We like to think our nutrients stay in the soil forever. Its not true. Otherwise remineralizing or top dressing wouldn't be necessary. Or the 20 lbs of kelp meal I've top dressed would have built up a mighty high potassium level in my soil.

In conclusion I think growers come to organic growing for a more stable and less complicated means of cultivation. A thread like this may be discouraging.

 

[Homesteader]

Never say never.
plants dictate uptake? What does this even mean? Does a plant dictate how much CO2 it consumes? Answer that and you will see the err in your ways. Cannabis Sativa.......What do you think Sativa means? (Cultivated) The plant dictates very little.
1/2 cp is not a big difference if you are talking about Alfalfa meal, but its a little different if you are talking about SulPoMag but regardless I fail to see your point. If you are copying someone elses work, does that assume they understand what they are doing? I really don't know what you are talking about with Clackamas's calculator, but it sounds like your last question is answer may need to be reopened.

 

[Organikz]

Never say never.
plants dictate uptake? What does this even mean? Does a plant dictate how much CO2 it consumes? Answer that and you will see the err in your ways. Cannabis Sativa.......What do you think Sativa means? (Cultivated) The plant dictates very little.
1/2 cp is not a big difference if you are talking about Alfalfa meal, but its a little different if you are talking about SulPoMag but regardless I fail to see your point. If you are copying someone elses work, does that assume they understand what they are doing? I really don't know what you are talking about with Clackamas's calculator, but it sounds like your last question is answer may need to be reopened.

Yes it does dictate co2 uptake. Plants control stomata. When a plant is overheated stomata close to reduce respiration. Plants signal nutrients via root exudation. Sugar signalling. Sources and sinks. Why does a plant naturally fade in LOS? Guys don't use langbeinite in their soil mix. If they do that's their follie. Langeinite makes a great folar feed. Bubbled in water for 36 hours. I never add it to my soil.

I am down to 0 sulfate. I don't use protekt anymore. I use grow-sil. Extracted from rice hulls.

 

[Homesteader]

I understand about stomata thanks, I am refering to the fact that nutrient uptake is controlled by outside forces such as CO2 levels. I think the root exudate aspect is vastly overstated in your community but that's a different day. Why would the plants need to send out acids to break down nutrients if you soil was healthy and ratios were on point?

For a do nothng garden, you sure seem to be cool with doing a lot.

 

[Organikz]

I understand about stomata thanks, I am refering to the fact that nutrient uptake is controlled by outside forces such as CO2 levels.

I agree there. Co2 plays a large factor. I haven't ever check my co2. I think 400lbs of decaying organic matter produces enough.

 

[Homesteader]

Well I am glad you agree but I think you missed the point. It doesn't matter though, thats why I don't go around trying to correct no-tillers anymore.
I didn't sticky this thread and I don't believe most need to know it. Micronutrient ratios can effect the uptake of the macros and probably do more than most growers understand. Cannabis consumes a lot more nutrients throughout the grow and those nutrients don't magically appear. Inputs = outputs.

 

[Organikz]

Well I am glad you agree but I think you missed the point. It doesn't matter though, thats why I don't go around trying to correct no-tillers anymore.
I didn't sticky this thread and I don't believe most need to know it. Micronutrient ratios can effect the uptake of the macros and probably do more than most growers understand. Cannabis consumes a lot more nutrients throughout the grow and those nutrients don't magically appear. Inputs = outputs.

We make the inputs but think about this. Your doctor says you need more vitamin C. Ask your doctor if organically grown oranges would be a better source or that bottle at the vitamin shop. The orange has the vitamin C and a plethora of other benefits.

Vermicompost=orange

Also how can I feed my plant the same schedule from start to finish if it doesn't dictate uptake?

 

[Homesteader]

I really don't see how any of this pertains to micronutrients nor do I wish to go around telling people Santa isn't real thus my lack of comments on any of your threads about no till.

I care about $$$ and saving it using science and self sufficiency, not feelings.

 

[Organikz]

I really don't see how any of this pertains to micronutrients nor do I wish to go around telling people Santa isn't real thus my lack of comments on any of your threads about no till.

I care about $$$ and saving it using science and self sufficiency, not feelings.

It's all nature baby. We just give it a push start. Like a child learning to ride a bike. Guys with 3 year beds are feeding a total of $10 worth of material per pound.

 

[Organikz]

@Homesteader

I didn't mean to come off as attacking your thread. It has it's place but it's more of a higher learning for those interested.

My main concern was as @MalawiMike stated...which was also mentioned before. Someone interested in beginning organic growing as it may be more suitable for their lifestyle would see this and more than likely second guess simplicity of organic growing.

I think all of us as organic growers should collectively put together a sticky with simple soil mixes, etc. I dont doubt your knowledge. There is much to assertain but lets apply it for the guy starting out to understand.

We understand that organic growing is much more forgiving as long as you follow somewhat of a guideline. Revs grow style is not simple at all and it's overlapping and redundant in 500 different ways. 4 amendments and 5 total inputs per month besides waterimg can be used to achieve the same if not better results than his 300 amendment program...no offense rev if you're reading.

I can get into soil solution chemistry, CEC, tilth and all. Even hydrogen bonds, covalent bonds, etc. That shit is going to make a guy who just wants some meds have his head spinning.

 

[Homesteader]

I couldn't care less if someone wants to attack a thread. My dog barks at walls, I'm not going to paint the wall a color she is not going to bark at. Let her bark.

If people don't want to learn about micronutrients, go to a different thread and stop barking at walls.

 

[Homesteader]

Nutrient Interaction as seen in Mulder's chart.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/mulders-chart-and-soil-nutrient-interaction.85641/

 

[REALSTYLES]

Guys I'm gonna show you Home Depot soil lol. It's OMRI as well just look at the plants and I re-amend my soil and look at the plants

 

[OkieThunder]

I have a serious problem with Moly. I can't spray it diluted enough to not burn leaves, and I can't seem to maintain it at proper levels in my soil. That one is tough, and Mn is really hard to keep in our peat based mixes. Copper is another one to keep an eye on in our peat based mixes. Great thread.

19 mg per kg........6 prunes = 58 raisins.....ahhh fuck it. Ill stick with TM7

Man, I wish that you guys were still around. I was figuring this stuff out around the same time this post was made and only if I was here to partake in it. I've been using Soil Savvy tests which are solubility tests that check for nutrient lockout and I notice that my micronutrients are ALWAYS low, with manganese seeming to be the most common problem.

I thought that my problem was unique, but I tested a bag of Malibu compost and it looks VERY similar to this.

These are soil tests that I have taken while trying to fix manganese issues. So, even after addressing the issue with TM-7 I was still having problems.

I tried lowering the Ph to make micro nutrients more available, but I was still having Mn issues. I've done many tests like this "Chasing the Dragon" with Mulder's chart as a guide and it's not easy. When I was using TM-7, the other micronutrients would get too high and Mn would still be low. I started using Big-6 which is very similar to TM-7(both created by BioAg) but the Big 6 doesn't have iron and 2x the amount of Mn. I still wasn't having that much luck adding it to the soil. Maybe I just need to learn how to use the products better???

 

[TheBioMaster]

Wow! Saying biology doesn't add anything to your soil is ludicrous!!

Ever hear of something called enzymes?? Protein chains??? How about amino acids??? Ya think those might be important?? LOL!

Freaking entire books have been written on the subject.....classes taught across the globe!!! LMAO!!

Talk about your misunderstanding of how and why nutrients work in soil......macro and micro.

This is one sad thread......Unless of course you believe in magic and unicorns.

 

[fishbuds]