Using fresh bud and leaves

[kjs420]

When I'm done harvesting, am I able to skip the drying and curing process and put fresh bud and leaves into a magical butter machine with alcohol and make tincture? I know drying and curing is for preservation, so why can't I use fresh product in a tincture?

 

[GoldenDragondnw]

Idk...can you?

 

[quirk]

The reason will become apparent.

 

[Captspaulding]

The reason will become apparent.

If you care about flavor, then cure first.

 

[kjs420]

If you care about flavor, then cure first.

But as far as potency it will still have the same amount of thc. Thinking if you normally use 14gs of dried product per cup of alcohol. Maybe you'd need 20-30gs of fresh product per cup to get the same potency as obviously drying reduces weight by 70ish%. So if you don't care about flavor in theory you can skip that process

 

[Captspaulding]

But as far as potency it will still have the same amount of thc. Thinking if you normally use 14gs of dried product per cup of alcohol. Maybe you'd need 20-30gs of fresh product per cup to get the same potency as obviously drying reduces weight by 70ish%. So if you don't care about flavor in theory you can skip that process

proper drying of the plant increases terps, cannabinoids and overall potency. I think you’d be cutting yourself short after all of the effort to grow it right. I get what your saying as well….but I wouldn’t.

 

[kjs420]

proper drying of the plant increases terps, cannabinoids and overall potency. I think you’d be cutting yourself short after all of the effort to grow it right. I get what your saying as well….but I wouldn’t.

I appreciate the response. Im brand new to growing and I use tincture more than anything else. So im just trying to figure out more of the process. And couldn't seem to find anything about just using fresh product.

 

[Captspaulding]

I appreciate the response. Im brand new to growing and I use tincture more than anything else. So im just trying to figure out more of the process. And couldn't seem to find anything about just using fresh product.

It’s all part of the curve homie. We were all you at one point. I just think, if you go out of your way to grow a high thc strain, take it all the way to the finish first, any concentrate will be better with a properly cured product. A lot of this stuff comes with time and experience. Your logic wasn’t bad or anything, I get where you were going. For what you are doing though, maximize. It’s waaaay more worth it in the end. Hope this helped.

 

[Oldchucky]

Don’t you have to decarb it first? Unless you plan on smoking it.

 

[Captspaulding]

Don’t you have to decarb it first? Unless you plan on smoking it.

Any edible has to be decarbed.

 

[Oldchucky]

I hadn’t heard anybody mention it above. Maybe his machine does it. My machine doesn’t. A crockpot! Just for butter.

 

[Captspaulding]

I hadn’t heard anybody mention it above. Maybe his machine does it. My machine doesn’t. A crockpot! Just for butter.

That’ll do it!

 

[Oldchucky]

It seems like the fresh bud might mess with the decarbing process more than anything else. Might have to do it longer. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Captspaulding]

It seems like the fresh bud might mess with the decarbing process more than anything else. Might have to do it longer. Just thinking out loud.

It’s true. I learned my lesson trying to decarb bubble hash before it was dried out once. And water is going to buffer the heat. When I messed up years ago with the hash, it kinda sucked because the water just heated up, not enough, so I let it dry out, went to decarb again and roasted it. Serious bummer but lesson learned.

 

[Oldchucky]

That’s what it’s all about! Live and learn!

 

[Captspaulding]

That’s what it’s all about! Live and learn!

Either that, or Darwin awards for everyone! You get an award! Aaaand you get an award! Everyone gets an award!!!!!

 

[PianoStan]

Don’t you have to decarb it first? Unless you plan on smoking it.

Dude, ALL weed needs to be de-carbed to become psychoactive. The only question is whether you de-carb it in a machine (or oven) at a low temperature when making edibles, or whether you use the flame of your lighter to set it on fire. The difference being that the 1300 degree flame of a lighter destroys 50-60% of the THC depending on whether you are smoking joints/blunts or bowls/bongs respectively. (The difference being that joints/blunts get lit once, and then burn with a 500-700 degree cherry "only" destroying 50% of the THC, where bowls/bongs get lit and relit constantly destroying 60% of the THC).

***EDITED TO CORRECT IMPROPER MATH***
Once I started reading the studies and doing the math on just how many milligrams of THC one needs to set on fire just to get the smallest dose into their lungs I was dumbfounded. This is gonna sound stupid but the way the math works out if one smokes THC 40-60% of all the THC is just lost to the heat of the flame. Something like 40-70% of the remaining THC that makes its way into one's lungs is sent back into the atmosphere when the person exhales. Of the 30-60% of the THC that survived the fire and actually found its way into your body, your body will only be able to make use of 23-27% of that amount for daily users, while casual users and first timers can get up to 33%

So...
Say a person packs 100mg into a bowl, they can realistically expect to actually get 40mg of THC into their lungs and that puts 12-24mg actually inside their body, and then through the metabolic process somewhere between 2.76 and 7.92mg of THC end up being psychoactively available depending on their metabolism. (Anybody care to guess why state after state after state adopts between 5-10mg as a "therapeutic dose"?)

On the other hand, if that same 100mg of THC is decarbed and processed into an edible, there is no loss of potency as there is when a bowl is lit. So the only math that needs to be considered is whether or not the person is a daily consumer. Digestion isn't a perfect process, so it becomes impossible to predict EXACTLY how many milligrams make into the blood stream, but it should be over 80%. So at least 80mg. Then, for a daily consumer 18-24mg is a reasonable expectation, and up to 27mg for the casual user.

 

[Oldchucky]

I think what we were kind of tossing around was whether you would have to leave fresh bud in the oven a lot longer than dried bud for a proper decarb! I’m not familiar with magic butter machines. Or whether you have to use previously decarb weed in them! Or what is the difference in the end result might be between using fresh bud right off the plant or dried bud. my lungs are hanging on by a thread! So I am a brownie, eating mofo! I get a lot more stone from eating brownies, than smoking! I mean, fresh or dried in the machine.

 

[PianoStan]

I think what we were kind of tossing around was whether you would have to leave fresh bud in the oven a lot longer than dried bud for a proper decarb! I’m not familiar with magic butter machines. Or whether you have to use previously decarb weed in them! Or what is the difference in the end result might be between using fresh bud right off the plant or dried bud. my lungs are hanging on by a thread! So I am a brownie, eating mofo! I get a lot more stone from eating brownies, than smoking! I mean, fresh or dried in the machine.

For sure!!! I've been a stoner for over 40 years, but I'm brand new to growing, and; my reason for joining this forum was to determine whether or not I could skip the whole dry/cure stage of harvesting since I'm ONLY interested in making edibles. The part about maturing the terpenes and cannabinoids was something that I never even considered. So, I'm glad that that was pointed out.

I only made that reply to you because nearly everyone that I know assumes that only edibles need de-carbing, but it is not true. That carboxyl group MUST be removed from the molecule for the THC to become a psychoactive substance. Regardless of method of ingestion.

Personally, I make tinctures rather than oils or butters. (That's not exactly scientifically correct since oils and butters are TYPES of tinctures, but since most people use the word "tincture" to refer to an alcohol based product, I will as well.) The tincture is a happy medium for me, faster acting than brownies or cookies, although of shorter duration, but far more efficient than smoking.

Not to mention that I went from smoking 2.5-3oz/week to 1.5oz/month in my tincture. (Plus the tincture can be aged like wine, and increase its potency!) It really became the cost efficient method of consumption.