Purpletrain
- 810
- 143
IMO for what its worth , I would not even bother with them cheap ass reptile bulbs , Its plain and simple really Full spectrum lighting
GT21
I like soup
Supporter
- 10,114
- 438
There are a lot of people that have seen very clear POSITIVE results just by adding those cheap ass bulbs to a cheap ass hps bulb... you can go drop 120 bucks on say a dual arch bulb... or you can go the cheap way with the same result.
Purpletrain
- 810
- 143
Like the old saying goes comparing a small wattage bulb to 150 or 315 or 430 or the 760 watt full spectrum CMH or plasma
Think out side the box for moment ?? To think that cheap ass light did wonders lol is stupid ,,
I mean its proven a bigger plant, older plant produces better quality ,,
So if we think out side the box like some do ...
Why bother just upgrade to Full spectrum that has UV and not only that b but a better spectrum all together to grow you a better plant to begin with
GT21
I like soup
Supporter
- 10,114
- 438
A bigger/older plant produces better quality? You lost me. What about SOGs? Many of the full spectrum bulbs dont even go into uvb nanometers. You have to dip into 320-290 nanometers to get some solid uvb rays. A broad spectrum is great but the real goal is to hit photosystems 1 and 2 and chlorophyll a and b... and hit them hard.
SilentL
- 52
- 18
Yes , How Much? To get good numbers i guess that will be a new discussion.
First I will look at how much they get at min - max (outdoor).
Then I suppose trial and error , the error less potent herb...or waste of energy / much heat etc...
Anyway I have my 2*18 w tubes on all time in flower space. I get a pet store bulb uv b desert type later when to replace my cfl-uv bulb .
To try it will be clones and put them all time near t5 uv and cfl uv bulb. and next only t5 , and so on...then uv desert bulb then I can say what I think about that.
GT21
I like soup
Supporter
- 10,114
- 438
In our atmosphere we top out at about 10%ish UV. The problem i see with cfl users is they dont keep them close enough to be really effective... this is how to properly use cfls. If you get the long tube lights then its kinda hard to get this close and not block your hid light.
SilentL
- 52
- 18
Yes , that's right , I grow sometimes 4-6 differnt strains, often (2-4). Then cfl is a very good complent 100w and 4-5 plants near, beside then it's effective ; (100w low energi is still 100w heat) . I hang the lamp between the bushes or like G21 picture.
GT21
I like soup
Supporter
- 10,114
- 438
The real key with cfls is that you have to keep them close. It even says on the box i think (not effective for your animal past 12 inches... it would be the same for plants)... @ArcticOrange i believe he started using uv and liked the effects too. Hes one of MANY with good feedback on them.
SilentL
- 52
- 18
Yes to place the light is very important . For many as for me , have a heat problem. I can't solve it without neighbours may wonder why does he have that fan or cooling.. Then the placement of the light get realy important!
About uv-a-b I am certain that it is good for potency. :)
I
About uv-a-b I am certain that it is good for potency. :)
I
Purpletrain
- 810
- 143
IMO you wasting your time adding UV into your grow room for one UV is used for what Sterilization, and why Because it kills .
With regard to plants, UV-B impairs photosynthesis in many species. Overexposure to UV-B reduces size, productivity, and quality in many of the crop plant species that have been studied (among them, many varieties of rice, soybeans, winter wheat, cotton, and corn). Similarly, overexposure to UV-B impairs the productivity of phytoplankton in aquatic ecosystems. UV-B increases plants’ susceptibility to disease. Scientists have found it affects enzyme reactions that conduct fundamental biological functions, it impairs cellular division,
Causing Mutations and other problems down the road
So with 8 ish percent hitting earths surface pot heads are going to worry about 8 percent rather then worry about the right spectrum for fast plant growth and healthy plant growth
I just don't get it people worry about the little shit in a grow rather then the big picture
GT21 you mention Sogs i have done stupid sized sogs 6 years straight Years ago talking 1000 plants in different stages and different rooms average room 80 plants close to 20,000 watts for what its worth its time consuming, and costly n nutrients and end results never added up .
Cause you were only harvesting little better then 1/4 of the plants top 1/4 rest was always underdeveloped .. Cause of the foliage
You here?? the once you chop top half let it grow for a few more weeks truth is that does not work lol.. again been there done that .
And its a waste of time
In todays era of strains you have the heavy feeders and light feeders , ones that like more heat then others that like less.
there is a fine line when dealing with
When adding UV inreality you have modified many other stresses that come with adding UV lighting
Todays generation grower is more worried about final product not realizing that 99 percent of the time they never got there plant to produce quality and that was from lack of experience..
One thing about growing is Experience knowing the strain is one of the most valuable tools reading the plants needs understanding all stages of growth ..
Many growers Fail miserably and why ?? because they grow a bunch of different strains at the same time TBH that is a accident waiting to happen
At the End of the day what does this all come down to all strains act differently some strains are perfect for scrogs others not , some strains can take de foil much better then others ,
I just personally think unless you have grown the strain for years and for most only see a difference with there Eyes to me rings Hollow..
its meaning less unless your actually testing thc and other chems to see actual results
Growing is like a game as you get better you level up to think a person is going to cut corners or cheat to level up is rather amusing ..
There are many different areas rather then adding UV a grower needs to work on soil biology , nutrients , and most importantly environment
With regard to plants, UV-B impairs photosynthesis in many species. Overexposure to UV-B reduces size, productivity, and quality in many of the crop plant species that have been studied (among them, many varieties of rice, soybeans, winter wheat, cotton, and corn). Similarly, overexposure to UV-B impairs the productivity of phytoplankton in aquatic ecosystems. UV-B increases plants’ susceptibility to disease. Scientists have found it affects enzyme reactions that conduct fundamental biological functions, it impairs cellular division,
Causing Mutations and other problems down the road
So with 8 ish percent hitting earths surface pot heads are going to worry about 8 percent rather then worry about the right spectrum for fast plant growth and healthy plant growth
I just don't get it people worry about the little shit in a grow rather then the big picture
GT21 you mention Sogs i have done stupid sized sogs 6 years straight Years ago talking 1000 plants in different stages and different rooms average room 80 plants close to 20,000 watts for what its worth its time consuming, and costly n nutrients and end results never added up .
Cause you were only harvesting little better then 1/4 of the plants top 1/4 rest was always underdeveloped .. Cause of the foliage
You here?? the once you chop top half let it grow for a few more weeks truth is that does not work lol.. again been there done that .
And its a waste of time
In todays era of strains you have the heavy feeders and light feeders , ones that like more heat then others that like less.
there is a fine line when dealing with
When adding UV inreality you have modified many other stresses that come with adding UV lighting
Todays generation grower is more worried about final product not realizing that 99 percent of the time they never got there plant to produce quality and that was from lack of experience..
One thing about growing is Experience knowing the strain is one of the most valuable tools reading the plants needs understanding all stages of growth ..
Many growers Fail miserably and why ?? because they grow a bunch of different strains at the same time TBH that is a accident waiting to happen
At the End of the day what does this all come down to all strains act differently some strains are perfect for scrogs others not , some strains can take de foil much better then others ,
I just personally think unless you have grown the strain for years and for most only see a difference with there Eyes to me rings Hollow..
its meaning less unless your actually testing thc and other chems to see actual results
Growing is like a game as you get better you level up to think a person is going to cut corners or cheat to level up is rather amusing ..
There are many different areas rather then adding UV a grower needs to work on soil biology , nutrients , and most importantly environment
GT21
I like soup
Supporter
- 10,114
- 438
Interesting stuff... uvc is for sterilization not uvb... study up on nanometers bud.. and ill get .9-1.1 gpw(donation ready product) all day in my sogs.. no co2 and a cheap ass bulb on a magnetic ballast. 36 plant/6gallon feeds/100 days from clone to harvest. And we have a wonderful uv thread here at the farm that i pumped info into. Check it out....
Purpletrain
- 810
- 143
one room 76 plants :) 1.57 gpw 2000 watts grow 8 pound harvest hordi super blue, another room lol and yet another room :) some natural frost :) with out UV just saying for what its worth
i done sogs where i clones 800 clones a week harvest 20 dry pounds every 2 weeks and you know what i got burnt out no life now i grow 8 - 12 plants scrog harvest same 7 3/4 pound dry weed is so good that my buyers pay me 10 k 2 weeks before there its in there hand ..
that is what its all about right i now only grow out door only indoor i do is seed germ and minor veg .
i do not worry about UV when it comes right down to it and the way mj future is headed is green house growing on solar all year growing with suplimental lighting but also the Sun
I just placed my pre order for my tesla power wall battery packs for my green houses 3 green houses 14 k per house plans are to be fully operational by spring of 2017 i dedicated 10 acres for out door as well no need for indoor growing anymore with harvesting over 1000 pounds annually
i done sogs where i clones 800 clones a week harvest 20 dry pounds every 2 weeks and you know what i got burnt out no life now i grow 8 - 12 plants scrog harvest same 7 3/4 pound dry weed is so good that my buyers pay me 10 k 2 weeks before there its in there hand ..
that is what its all about right i now only grow out door only indoor i do is seed germ and minor veg .
i do not worry about UV when it comes right down to it and the way mj future is headed is green house growing on solar all year growing with suplimental lighting but also the Sun
I just placed my pre order for my tesla power wall battery packs for my green houses 3 green houses 14 k per house plans are to be fully operational by spring of 2017 i dedicated 10 acres for out door as well no need for indoor growing anymore with harvesting over 1000 pounds annually
Purpletrain
- 810
- 143
On closing note Like all living organisms, plants sense and respond to UV radiation, both the wavelengths present in sunlight (UV-A and UV-B) and the wavelengths below 280 nm (UV-C). AI1 types of UV radiation are known to damage various plant processes. Such damage can be classified into two categories: damage to DNA (which can cause heritable mutations) and damage to physiological processes. There has been much speculation about how increased UV radiation exposure will affect plants, but as yet, there are no definitive answers.
I will discuss the kinds of damage that UV radiation can inflict on plants, the mechanisms plants use to perceive and respond to UV radiation, and the ecological relevance of UV light wavelengths that have been used in the experimental analysis of plant responses to UV radiation.
Many different plant responses to supplemental UV-B radiation have been observed (Tevini and Teramura, 1989). The best studies have increased UV-B levels to simulate conditions that would exist with a defined reduction in the ozone layer (typically 10 to 20%). As a control, the same lamps are shielded with a plastic film that absorbs all UV-B wavelengths. Thus, all parts of the spectrum except the UV-B region are held constant. Although with this system it is possible to determine whether a response results from supplemental UV-6, the mechanism by which that response occurs may not be obvious. For instance, changes seen after supplemental UV-B radiation include biomass reductions (Tevini et al., 1981; Lydon et al., 1986; Sullivan and Teramura, 1988), decreases in the percentage of pollen germination (Flint and Caldwell, 1984), changes in the ability of crop plants to compete with weeds (Barnes et al., 1990), epidermal deformation (Tevini et al., 1981), changes in cuticular wax composition (Tevini and Steinmuller, 1987), and increased flavonoid levels (Tevini et al., 1981,1991a; Beggs and Wellman, 1985). These changes could result from any number of primary UV-B events: DNA damage, direct photosynthetic damage, membrane changes, protein destruction, hormone inactivation (Tevini et al., 1989, 1991b), signal transduction through phytochrome (which photoconverts in response to UV-B) (Pratt and Butler, 1970), or signal transduction via a UV-B photoreceptor. To determine precisely which factor or factors are involved
I will discuss the kinds of damage that UV radiation can inflict on plants, the mechanisms plants use to perceive and respond to UV radiation, and the ecological relevance of UV light wavelengths that have been used in the experimental analysis of plant responses to UV radiation.
Many different plant responses to supplemental UV-B radiation have been observed (Tevini and Teramura, 1989). The best studies have increased UV-B levels to simulate conditions that would exist with a defined reduction in the ozone layer (typically 10 to 20%). As a control, the same lamps are shielded with a plastic film that absorbs all UV-B wavelengths. Thus, all parts of the spectrum except the UV-B region are held constant. Although with this system it is possible to determine whether a response results from supplemental UV-6, the mechanism by which that response occurs may not be obvious. For instance, changes seen after supplemental UV-B radiation include biomass reductions (Tevini et al., 1981; Lydon et al., 1986; Sullivan and Teramura, 1988), decreases in the percentage of pollen germination (Flint and Caldwell, 1984), changes in the ability of crop plants to compete with weeds (Barnes et al., 1990), epidermal deformation (Tevini et al., 1981), changes in cuticular wax composition (Tevini and Steinmuller, 1987), and increased flavonoid levels (Tevini et al., 1981,1991a; Beggs and Wellman, 1985). These changes could result from any number of primary UV-B events: DNA damage, direct photosynthetic damage, membrane changes, protein destruction, hormone inactivation (Tevini et al., 1989, 1991b), signal transduction through phytochrome (which photoconverts in response to UV-B) (Pratt and Butler, 1970), or signal transduction via a UV-B photoreceptor. To determine precisely which factor or factors are involved
GT21
I like soup
Supporter
- 10,114
- 438
You horti super blue is trying to mimic low nanometers too(uv).. just more expensive. Whats your nute line up? How long is your veg? You're gpw i think is more like 1.79.. thats great. You know our sun puts off uv right? Like nature?
Purpletrain
- 810
- 143
GT21
I like soup
Supporter
- 10,114
- 438
It said error
Ignignokt
- 350
- 93
Awesome. The Tesla battery packs (and the ever increasing efficiency of Solar panels) were part of what inspired me to invest in the lighting technologies I use and develop the rest of the environmental controls.
I would note the science on UV supplementation has advanced significantly since that paper at: http://www.plantcell.org/content/4/11/1353.full.pdf was written ( 1992 ) and one observation about the experiments of that time are typically narrow band exposure with UV-B that does not include the natural proportion of UV-A and Blue - found in later work to be a requirement for UV tolerance in plants.
Here is a new company that specializes in UV treatments for seedlings : http://www.biolumic.com/
Surely this is no coincidence with all the more recent work done in this area.
As for light sources - it is important to have:
1. very little or NO UV-C. Unless you like the eye burns and melanoma - there is no benefit to plant or human in UV-C except in water treatment for biohazards and other "scorched earth" decontamination uses (there are many).
2. A broad spectrum with levels close to what we see on the earth surface for UV. Reptile lamps approach this spectrum closer than any other source I have found that is inexpensive and low-power usage. I use 3x 48" single tube T5HO and that adds only ~160watts to my power requirements.
3. a reasonable exposure schedule to obtain the benefits and also allow the repair mechanisms to function.
I've started an initial schedule of two hours a day, centered around the middle of the 12 hour light period - the grow is in the 4th week of flower.
Getting back to the work Biolumic is doing - my research is finding that the newest papers are talking about a plant memory for various environmental exposures that has tremendous effects in later expression. Further reading leads to the not-so-new research called "epigenetics" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics - I think this is more to the point of what we try to understand in our cannabis gardens. The popular notion is that somehow the strain is the thing - I'm doubting the current proliferation of breeding is a good thing.
Iggy
I would note the science on UV supplementation has advanced significantly since that paper at: http://www.plantcell.org/content/4/11/1353.full.pdf was written ( 1992 ) and one observation about the experiments of that time are typically narrow band exposure with UV-B that does not include the natural proportion of UV-A and Blue - found in later work to be a requirement for UV tolerance in plants.
Here is a new company that specializes in UV treatments for seedlings : http://www.biolumic.com/
Surely this is no coincidence with all the more recent work done in this area.
As for light sources - it is important to have:
1. very little or NO UV-C. Unless you like the eye burns and melanoma - there is no benefit to plant or human in UV-C except in water treatment for biohazards and other "scorched earth" decontamination uses (there are many).
2. A broad spectrum with levels close to what we see on the earth surface for UV. Reptile lamps approach this spectrum closer than any other source I have found that is inexpensive and low-power usage. I use 3x 48" single tube T5HO and that adds only ~160watts to my power requirements.
3. a reasonable exposure schedule to obtain the benefits and also allow the repair mechanisms to function.
I've started an initial schedule of two hours a day, centered around the middle of the 12 hour light period - the grow is in the 4th week of flower.
Getting back to the work Biolumic is doing - my research is finding that the newest papers are talking about a plant memory for various environmental exposures that has tremendous effects in later expression. Further reading leads to the not-so-new research called "epigenetics" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics - I think this is more to the point of what we try to understand in our cannabis gardens. The popular notion is that somehow the strain is the thing - I'm doubting the current proliferation of breeding is a good thing.
Iggy
Purpletrain
- 810
- 143
Speaking of T5 grow lol here some MH going into green houses in between other light sources :)
Ignignokt
- 350
- 93
Nice SCROG! I've read a lot about the technique - that is a really nice example. Once I find the right cut this fall - I'm planning a SCROG for fall/winter work.
SilentL
- 52
- 18
Yes , SCROG with sativa-dominant / sativa's , they are nice :) .
Latest posts
-
POTM Nominations - May 2024- leroygreen posted
-
Seedsman Photo Competition- Newbgrower1 posted
-
My Aj sour diesel grow- Pineboy212 posted
-
Gelato 33 and karma bx 4 sowahh
- Pineboy212 posted
