Veg Bloom Help!!! SOS

[A.Swift]

Intro
Ok guys, so I am an experienced grower having my own grows ranging from basement to 100 lighters. However, I switched to V+B for this new spot after much hype from a good friend who also works @ the hydro store (fuckin hydro store guy). Veg phase started off strong! and it was all down hill from there.
I framed out my new facility / hermetically sealed it / full environmental controls and popped beans. Beans are Skywalker OG & OG #18 from Reserva privada (spelling) and the better looking plants at the back of the room are from Mad Scientist genetics (breeders of wedding cake) LA confidential crosses so they can eat . I started from Seed as well as having a soil homogenizer so im pretty sure its not a pest issue. Cannabis was never grown here prior / the coco was heated to 180 degrees for 3 hours plus prior to use.

The Scenario So far
My girls started looking like a sprite bottle pretty much after transplant into smart pots from the Solo cups i started them in, LIMED OUT. They progressed from that to the worst Magnesium / Cal def I have ever seen in my life. Here is where it gets tricky, I began using Heavy 16 foliar to sup the cal (momentarily relief provided after each dose). After seeming obviously deficient, I gave them a recommend feeding @ 4g per gallon of base after .3 EC with calmag. I believe this put me at about .8 -1 EC, the plants were as large as the last photo (those are 5 Gallon smarts so 6.8 gallon of coco). Next day BURN crispy tips the whole 9, you can see the frilled leaves in the last pic if you zoom in a bit. After this feed has dried enough to water I hit it with a 300PPM feed and the initial runoff is @ 6.4 ph and 800 PPM and dropped(shouldnt have caused burn right?) this was probably the best the plants have looked, it was a flush dose of water so I allowed the plants 48-56 hours to dry. As they dried they began looking deficient AGAIN, so I gave a feed @ 1 EC and suprise suprise yellow tipped new growth and a persistent sprite bottle tone. I seem to be battling a persistent deficient / overfed loop, and i need help from the forum Gods.

The Pivot

Im confident with some guidance I will have this thing back on track, I sunk the investment of buying the entire line through flower >.< AT startup so funds to switch back to my old line arent there currently. Prior experience is predominately with Roots organics Soul Synthetic line (Chelated liquid organic synth combo) on a feed water water cycle.




Growing in:
Tupur 3 & 5 gallon smartpots

Lighting:
315 LEC Sun systems bottom rack x3 , Nanolux top rack x3


Feed in order:
botanicare Cal mag- take it to .2-.3 EC
Veg Bloom Base- (Fed @ 75% recommended dose to start)
Life- 1/2 suggested strength
PH- Feeding between 6.0-6.2


This is the best they have looked (The White on leaves is OG bio war foliar tea)

At this point i felt like I was feeding to light (75% recommended dose)

A closer up of other plants at the same phase, you can see the def looks CRAZY on them

This is after I did a full recommended dose feeding (showed immediate burning) let it dry and then fed @ 300 PPM. Probably the best they have looked (for me this is shitty as fuck).

 

[oldskol4evr]

putting in 300 and coming out 800 still a pretty good salt buildup,might think about flushing a little bit more,but flush with 450 early veg,thats low enough to give them a bit of food and add the cal mag,id go about min of 2ml a gallon.but id run that threw there until i got close to what i was putting in if you dig,thats just a start of what i would roll with,also 6.0 ph so that would give me a little swing,if needed from there,how many times a day you feeding them

 

[A.Swift]

putting in 300 and coming out 800 still a pretty good salt buildup,might think about flushing a little bit more,but flush with 450 early veg,thats low enough to give them a bit of food and add the cal mag,id go about min of 2ml a gallon.but id run that threw there until i got close to what i was putting in if you dig,thats just a start of what i would roll with,also 6.0 ph so that would give me a little swing,if needed from there,how many times a day you feeding them

One, because of them being starved they havent been drinking as should. I know flora flex adds SLF 100 in the feed guide they give and both and pretty similar AG salt base lines. Do you think i get an enzyme and flush them with it? Im pretty sure whats fucked me is not having Stackswell with 0 PPM R.O, the Nitrogen in botanicare calmag is pretty high. They are about 2 feet tall give or take a few inches pending on the plant.

 

[oldskol4evr]

what ever it takes to get that ppm ,ph closer to what goes in and comes out is what i would roll with,until you wash some them salts out your gonna continue to have issues what i think,not sure about your nute line,i dont really believe one is better than other,i follow the ph and ppm recomended schedule and read the plants from there,hasnt never let me down in coco ,soil or hydro,that balance is what they require,all the boasters and stuff i dont use,i used the botanicare pro for my coco grow all the way,use the same 1 gal jug of it to finish off my soil grow,i bet if you got it flushed better they will start to feed more and in coco they need that air exchange and nute exchange to thrive,that meant feed 4 times a day in my case

 

[oldskol4evr]

as far as enzyme goes ,i take steel oats and reg barley from local store grind it up and top scratch it in ,every couple feeds,helps tons for getting all the soil wet instead of just pockets if you dig.
your coco has nothing ,only what you put in it and thats why you have to exchange the air and nutes,20 to 30% runoff each time makes it easy for flushing the salts out if you dig,i never went past a 3 gal pot in coco either,start with solo cup,up to 1 gal to 3 gal and feed that bitch reg,you think wet ,yep but fresh air and nutes is damn sure better than compaction and stale nutes to feed on

 

[oldskol4evr]

i mixed up a 5 gal bucket of nutes every morning,ph ppm all the same,during the day i feed from that bucket ,just add to you get that good runoff,vacum it up,4 times a day,one plant was 5 times a day,doing it this way asure that my ph and ppm was always the same

 

[A.Swift]

as far as enzyme goes ,i take steel oats and reg barley from local store grind it up and top scratch it in ,every couple feeds,helps tons for getting all the soil wet instead of just pockets if you dig.
your coco has nothing ,only what you put in it and thats why you have to exchange the air and nutes,20 to 30% runoff each time makes it easy for flushing the salts out if you dig,i never went past a 3 gal pot in coco either,start with solo cup,up to 1 gal to 3 gal and feed that bitch reg,you think wet ,yep but fresh air and nutes is damn sure better than compaction and stale nutes to feed on

What PH & EC are you running in veg through your stages? I think issues for me started with the auto water, I cut the PVC running into my room and installed a wand and hose fed by external rez. Changed the game going back to what I know, even saturation now when i water no my dry spots.

For my flush you think give it just R.O with an enzyme to break up the salts, or do I still want to cal mag the r.o

 

[oldskol4evr]

 

[Aqua Man]

Think your letting them dry out to much. Never feed full nutes. Prob should be feeding more than once a day by now and likely more than that.

Don't see a reason for bigger than 3gal pots.

600ppmish 2-3 times a day.

Just my opinion in not a coco grower.

 

[bunkerking]

When is the last time you cleaned out those lines? Im sure those plants could do fine on just 1 feeding daily. Something else is going on imo.

3 gal should be fine? Just a waste of money/nutes to feed a bunch of soil the roots are not in.

 

[bunkerking]

SLF100 is king for salts. It goes banana's for it. Might have salt build up in the lines? causing strange issues.

 

[A.Swift]

View attachment 919551

You are the best bro! I flushed, FUCKING 2.0 EC O.O !!!!!!!!!!!!! OMGOOGLES watching the gurls burn ahhhhh

TY VM for this guide, I have no experience really with true "synthetics" or ag salt based lines!

 

[A.Swift]

SLF100 is king for salts. It goes banana's for it. Might have salt build up in the lines? causing strange issues.

Yes, thank you. I literally couldnt afford the matrix system this round for the flora flex heads I have so I just cut my PV and installed a wand so the room is still sealed and swapped to hand water for this specific reason.

Much love here! its awesome!

 

[bunkerking]

You are the best bro! I flushed, FUCKING 2.0 EC O.O !!!!!!!!!!!!! OMGOOGLES watching the gurls burn ahhhhh

TY VM for this guide, I have no experience really with true "synthetics" or ag salt based lines!

Yay! Nice work man! Now you know.

 

[Aqua Man]

Just going to point out that the likely cause is the lack of watering frequently. If ya keep watering that little it's going to happen again. The only time you need to flush coco is if your not watering frequently enough or to get good runoff. That's why the bigger pots are a waste.

Glad it's fixed.

 

[bunkerking]

Just going to point out that the likely cause is the lack of watering frequently. If ya keep watering that little it's going to happen again. The only time you need to flush coco is if your not watering frequently enough or to get good runoff. That's why the bigger pots are a waste.

Glad it's fixed.

agreed. hand watering once a day i guess is fine.

But with those 1/4" lines. They need multi feedings to keep them clean. plus you will reduce your water, and plants will thank you. You can find timers with 1 second min events for like $14.

 

[bunkerking]

also @Aqua Man - i think with coco the idea is you want to be able to feed the plant 5% of its total volume to start getting a run off.

So 6.5l (#2 pots)= 325ml to hit full saturation. + 100ml (30% of volume you fed/all run off)

3 gal pots = 550ml to hit full saturation. 160ml to hit 30% run


Roughly could be saving 300ml PER POT & PER EVENT.

25 plants x 300ml x 4 feedings a day = Roughly 8 gallons wasted daily.
25 plants x 300ml x 2 feedings a day = Roughly 4 gallons wasted daily.

Might go with smaller pots next time.

 

[Aqua Man]

also @Aqua Man - i think with coco the idea is you want to be able to feed the plant 5% of its total volume to start getting a run off.

So 6.5l (#2 pots)= 325ml to hit full saturation. + 100ml (30% of volume you fed/all run off)

3 gal pots = 550ml to hit full saturation. 160ml to hit 30% run


Roughly could be saving 300ml PER POT & PER EVENT.

25 plants x 300ml x 4 feedings a day = Roughly 8 gallons wasted daily.
25 plants x 300ml x 2 feedings a day = Roughly 4 gallons wasted daily.

Might go with smaller pots next time.

Yes staying above 90% saturation at all times and much more preferably 95% This is where the frequency needs adjusted or you get as the OP did nutrient buildup

 

[A.Swift]

Yes staying above 90% saturation at all times and much more preferably 95% This is where the frequency needs adjusted or you get as the OP did nutrient buildup

So im not sure if it was due to EC being off reducing drinking, but they show overwatering even when i get the slightest bit of run off. Im going to hit them with SLF tommorow and check EC again I suspect it will comming down to the normal range. I am hoping that a fresh start will have them perked right up, killer genetics from both DNA & MadScientist genetics man really resilient plants, dont sleep on that tap root boy.

 

[A.Swift]

So after 2 flushes with SLF, the runoff with just RO and SLF was still comming out at 1.2 EC. I ran about 125 gallons through 35 3 gallon pots and 15-18 5 gallon pots. It finnally dropped to .7 EC, the lack of an enzyme with the Veg+bloom was causing crazy salt bind w coco. My question is next watering do I hit them with just RO again until the runoff is at a 0 base?