Water cooled growrooms; if it works in your car...

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RMCG

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RMCG posted this; The other option is a reverse icebox, blow ambient air through an exchanger hooked up to the return water line, like Best Coast Growers Heat Xtractor.

EXACTLY what I plan to use, only instead of the custom molded plastic housing doohickey for $180, I'm gonna use $40 heater cores from the local auto parts store. The way to keep cooling costs to a minimum is to only cool what oyu have to, so I'm still going to pull outside air through my hoods and vent it outside to take away as much heat from the hoods as possible, THEN use the active cooling to chill what's left in the growroom. This is why I think my setup will be effective with far lower capacity and smaller electric bills than the standard calculations.


Where is the air coming from that you will be blowing through the x-tractor?

The water temp will never get lower than that air temp and in reality, probably will be closer to 5-10* ~above~ the incoming air temp as thermodynamic transfer is not 100%.

If you have a source of 65-70* air, I would just vent the room with that air source.
 
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organicfreak

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Greenrite.com has small and large heat exchangers for 100-200$ WAY CHEAPER THEN HI.
and you can have a sheetmetal store fabricate you a housing for 50$ish I used a ebb n flow bulk head fitting and a uibit on bottom of mine for a condensation drain

also
h.i 300$ resivoir coling package can be pieced out for 85$

1.the 110v water valve is china made google the 35$
2.stainless steel tubing 100$ for 50' makes 5 for 10$ google it
3.greenhouse online stores have a grey t-stat google them comes with a20' s.s temp probe you can put in water for 35$

Comercial dehumidifiers are a must.. If your dewpoint rises you will have condensation EVERYWERE.. wether you have a leak or not..
I have a phoenix 270ht but would buy a santa fe crawlspace dehuidfier for 1750$ next time...


o
 
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organicfreak

Guest
also save your $ and time and hang lights vertically IMHO and use fresca sol platinums.. The reflector cover's are cheap and the icebox placed after your reflector DOES COOL THE ROOM,but the reflector a bulb and glass are still hot...
Do the math 1' reflector 1' of chains/ hangers 2' of safty from the heat of the bulbs burning your bitches you just lost 4' add @least a foot for your pot and now you have 3' of height for growth.. See why other complain about height..

You can double stack 2 patinums and you have 8' wall off light MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE..
add DD's light arangment and Some1 better find out who brought the sun indoors haha..

o
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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organic freak, you have a lot of good information that I'm unable to replicate on my own. Can you include some of the specific sites where you found this stuff? Also, found a used 2 ton chiller for $1600, and some assorted goodies to go with it, so I'm on my way... just in time too, cuz it's gettin' hot in there, and they can't take off their clothes!
 
click80

click80

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idea

hey i was browsing here one day and found a post, but cant remember where, and whoever it was stated they had cut a hole in top of res, i think 4" and installed a pvc fitting and then installed a computer fan in the fitting to blow on top of res, and they said that they could get the res temps about 5-10 degrees below room air. I did a little experiment and just propped my res lid up a little and let my fan blow across top, damn if my res temp didnt go down 5 degrees in about 25 minutes !!!! I seem to remember something from physics about this and it has to do with the same reason hot water freezes faster than cold,or something like that, so anyhoo, just a FWIW thing.
 
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RMCG

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Peltier cooling. Wouldn't count on it for 'real' coolng though.
 
click80

click80

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Peltier cooling. Wouldn't count on it for 'real' coolng though.

thank you, i like to be able to know the name of things i am trying to describe, i nominate you for Cannabis Jeopardy...lol
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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RCMG, I feel the need to respond to your earlier post about ambient air and water temps, as I don't think I explained my plans well enough for you to get what I'm up to, so let me try again; Im pulling air from outside the growroom (from my house) through the hoods, then exhausting it outside, through a window... Now, since I have 8 ocho hoods in a 16' x 9' space, that's not nearly adequate to keep the temps down. The water system will be set up to cool the air in the growroom itself, and will not interact with air passing through the hoods. The water will pass through iceflow exchangers (I got some on the cheap, so I figured why not?) and back to a reservior that is cooled by a 2 ton Chill King chiller. Those iceflow cores will be hung from the ceiling, and fans will blow room air through those cores, cooling the air by some 15-20 degrees, from roughly 80 to about 65 or so. Any condensation water will be collected and put through the hydro system when it gets filled. So to sum up, there are in essence two seperate cooling systems in the room; one for the hoods only, and one for the room only.

As I mentioned earlier and perhaps confusingly, I have seen the iceflow cores advertised to be set up to cool air passing through the hoods, a practice I felt was unnecessarily expensive. I do not want to cool the room itself with air from outside the room because I can't manage to add enough CO2 or humidity to it to keep it at the conditions I want! I guess I want a sealed room, so as to maintain those conditions. If it works well enough, I'll seal the vegetative spaces as well.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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(Un)real cooling?

Peltier cooling. Wouldn't count on it for 'real' coolng though.

Hey, now- when the temp goes down, that's 'real' cooling... every little bit helps and if it saves some money in power bills, then it's money well saved, right? Five degrees can be the difference between success and failure. Since this is a form of evaporative cooling, keep an eye on PPMs rising...
 
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RMCG

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Hey, now- when the temp goes down, that's 'real' cooling... every little bit helps and if it saves some money in power bills, then it's money well saved, right? Five degrees can be the difference between success and failure. Since this is a form of evaporative cooling, keep an eye on PPMs rising...


Yes, but when you have an active heat load constantly adding heat to your res, a PC 'muffin' fan is NOT going to cut it on anything more than a gallon of water.

1 Ton of cooling, whether by evaporative tower, chiller or a 1Ton block of ice, its all the same. If the output is less than the input, your res temps are going to rise and 1000 muffin fans aren't what I would call scaleable.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Yes, but when you have an active heat load constantly adding heat to your res, a PC 'muffin' fan is NOT going to cut it on anything more than a gallon of water.

1 Ton of cooling, whether by evaporative tower, chiller or a 1Ton block of ice, its all the same. If the output is less than the input, your res temps are going to rise and 1000 muffin fans aren't what I would call scaleable.

LMAO- love the visual of 1000 muffintops whirring away whipping up tiny whitecaps on top of my res... maybe I should buy a tiny sailboat and let it blow hither and fro...

Couple thoughts here; first, since most people use heavy duty cooling for their bloom room which is off half the time, technically speaking you could get away with a less than 100% solution, as long as you have a big enough reservoir. As the 'day' progresses, the res would soak up the excess heat the chiller couldn't, and by the time the lights go off it might be a bit warm. I submit this is actually pretty close to what the plants naturally experience and would not be too bad, as long as the high temp at the end of the day isn't too far out of hand.

Another thought; I'm using the same chiller to cool my hydro systems. Total capacity is around 500 gallons. If I get all that water down to 65 degrees, and the chiller isn't quite able to keep up with the lights in the bloom room, then the circuit that's cooling the water in my DWC systems would actually start to cool the water passing through them, acting like a great big ass heat sink/ additional capacity reservoir. Again, this could go too far, but if things get a good cool overnight (temps get back down to the 65 degree range, and never climb much past 72 or so), then it would have the effect of letting oyur chiller act bigger than it actually is. Thoughts?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Update; turns out I got screwed by the city; just when I needed the water temps to stay cool in the hottest part of the summer, the water starts running INTO my house at 75 degrees! Oh, well, it was a nice idea while it lasted...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Water manifolds. Must have for anything more than just a circuit or two. I can show anyone interested how to build some really good ones for a shitload less coin than the watercooled growsite or anything purpose built at the big orange box. Mine arecomplete with valves at both the inlet and outlet sides, allowing for isolation and reconfiguration even while the main system runs continuously. Any takers?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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FREE ADVICE for all those building water chilled systems. First, fill and run the system for awhile with water in it. I had a leak at a connector to a chill coil in my RDWC, and it overfilled and flooded the system. Spilled a few gallons before I caught on and corrected the situation!

MORE FREE ADVICE: Use an extra stiff hose for the inlet side of your pump. If the pump is strong enough to push adequate water around your system, it's gonna pull a serious vacuum at the inlet side. If you're using the hydro store stuff, it will suck flat and not let your pump work properly. Worse, it will start making buzzing bubbling noises, which tells you it's cavitating inside. This means tiny air bubbles are forming in the partial vacuum on the impeller, and will quickly damage your pump and wear it out if this isn't addressed quickly.

Also, use the largest diameter hose nearest to the pump outlet. As you split off for various rooms and applications, step the hose size down, until you're using 1/2" line for each individual chiller box or coil. This helps the goal of even water distribution and minimizes strain on the pump.
 
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cheech

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I haven't read more than the 1st page of this thread, but I just want to say that I get a hard on thinking about putting up a pole barn near a spring fed pond/lake where I could run the geothermal heat pump.

I'm sure I'd still have to air cool the lights, but that's no problem.
 
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seebobsled

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Water manifolds. Must have for anything more than just a circuit or two. I can show anyone interested how to build some really good ones for a shitload less coin than the watercooled growsite or anything purpose built at the big orange box. Mine arecomplete with valves at both the inlet and outlet sides, allowing for isolation and reconfiguration even while the main system runs continuously. Any takers?

Yes that would be great!! also how do you like your chill king? and reason for picking it over other chillers?
 
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cheech

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What about running geothermal piping outside your house during the winter. This would at least allow for cooling in the winter without exchanging any grow room air, and would be an easy install with no digging.... Might even be able to rig it to a hot water heater for the summer.
 
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seebobsled

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What about running geothermal piping outside your house during the winter. This would at least allow for cooling in the winter without exchanging any grow room air, and would be an easy install with no digging.... Might even be able to rig it to a hot water heater for the summer.

yes if my fall and winter temps didn't float around. It can help the load when it is cold but I don't want to rely on outside temps only. If it peaks temp I am at the same road with a undersized ac... ScrewED!!!
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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I haven't read more than the 1st page of this thread, but I just want to say that I get a hard on thinking about putting up a pole barn near a spring fed pond/lake where I could run the geothermal heat pump.

I'm sure I'd still have to air cool the lights, but that's no problem.

If this is what gives you a woodie, then you're one sick puppy, lol. I'm telling yer girlfriend!

Yes, this would totally be the ideal setup! Then the cost of cooling falls to the power needed to run your pump. I would still run a closed system where the working fluid is never exchanged with either your nutes or the lake.

What about running geothermal piping outside your house during the winter. This would at least allow for cooling in the winter without exchanging any grow room air, and would be an easy install with no digging.... Might even be able to rig it to a hot water heater for the summer.

Hell yes this would work! Be damned sure you're running glycol so your lines don'd freeze.

In fact, when I free up a little time and capital I plan to do exactly this to reduce my cooling cost over the winter. The water cooled website sells a box that looks an awful lot like an AC condenser that sits outside. Instead of running freon through it, just run water. As long as air temps outside are below maybe 55 degrees it should work well enough to keep your actual chiller from having to work as much, and possibly not at all. I would keep the chiller in the water circuit so that as temps change, it would take up the slack. Maybe you could set up a thermal switch; send water outside whenever temps fall below the threshold of 55 degrees, and bypass it if temps are too high.

I confess an unfamiliarity with the finer points of geothermal and heat pump design. From what I've seen, the water temps in my chiller setup don't change a great deal so in order to extract the heat, you'd have to concentrate it somehow. How efficient this would be, and whether it would save any money are questions I would need to get answered. That's something I don't know much about.

The nice thing about a chiller setup that's cooling room air and hydro nute water is that it's one system, not several different ones. Keeps things simple. For now, there's no good reason to stop passing air through the vented hoods. If I had access to unlimited free cold that might change, for this reason:

In another thread, I'm discussing the merits of a light rotator system I've used off and on for the last 20 plus years. The design is very sensitive to the type of reflector the light is mounted in, and closed box vented hoods are not the best solution. Open adjust-a-wing style hoods are much better, for reasons I go into some detail about in the other thread (Advanced Techniques and Problems, 'built my own light rotator, wanna see?'). No vented hoods means getting the heat out another way, and geothermal or lakewater cooling makes a lot of sense here.

One more consideration: If you decide to use lake water, be aware of a phenomenon known as the thermocline. This refers to the fact that water likes to layer itself by temperature, warmer on top, cooler down deeper. Every lake's thermal profile is different, but in general, if you want to access good cold water, you're gonna need to get at least a dozen feet down. I can see a sizeable car radiator , mounted horizontally on a frame that holds it up off the bottom a couple feet. The fact that warm water is passing through the radiator would create a natural current as cooler water rises through the core to replace the warm water rising off it. This may or may not be enough, as the temperature difference is only a few degrees...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Yes that would be great!! also how do you like your chill king? and reason for picking it over other chillers?

Since I have no experience with any chiller but this one- it's a 2 Ton window mounted unit- I can't say if it's better than any of the others. I CAN say it seems to be very efficient in its operation so far! I can also say I really like the idea of having just one cooling plant for the entire setup, nutes to air temps. I'm a big fan of keepingthings simple, and the idea of running multiple AC units in several rooms, plus several small chillers for each hydro system sounds like serious brain damage, not to mention wallet draining.

yes if my fall and winter temps didn't float around. It can help the load when it is cold but I don't want to rely on outside temps only. If it peaks temp I am at the same road with a undersized ac... ScrewED!!!

True, but only to a point. Depending on where you live, if nighttime temps fall below a certain threshold, then you could run the system's outside circuit to charge a big reservoir with cold water. Such a big reservoir, in conjunction with a smaller chiller, could easily maintain temps in a smaller growroom. The key is BTUs needed per hour of room operation vs. the BTU capacity of the reservoir.

Another strategy would be to use a flipbox and split your bloom room into two. This way, the chiller only has to be big enough to cover half your garden at a time and can run 24 hours instead of being underutilized half the time. This has the net effect of doubling the size of your chiller system.
 
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