Wattage vs Space vs Yield - how much do I really need?

[PerfecTrader]

Shane is good, but so is Dr Bugbee. Personally I like them both.

hah I thought I was going crazy but now I understand. I know my walls are reflective but I never ever thought it would compensate enough to outpace the center of the tent. So the reason my tallest flowers are all on the back and sides is because of the mylar?
And Bruce? He is a few clicks above Shane in my opinion but they both fkin rock no doubt

 

[growsince79]

hah I thought I was going crazy but now I understand. I know my walls are reflective but I never ever thought it would compensate enough to outpace the center of the tent. So the reason my tallest flowers are all on the back and sides is because of the mylar?
And Bruce? He is a few clicks above Shane in my opinion but they both fkin rock no doubtView attachment 1280468

I think its taller because its getting less; stretching to the light..

 

[PerfecTrader]

My light is suggested to be 20-30 from canopy and I am a couple inches less than that already with the mimosa x orange punch in the picture. I turned the light up 1 click and would estimate I am at 60% now. I would obviously like to maximize harvest and give them as much light as they can take. Is it best to just increase light a click per week until plants say "Whoooooa greedy gretchen, slow your roll"? I know there are sick gadgets and maybe even a couple hundo one worth exploring but I think if I spend any more on my grows my lady is going to have me sleepin outside a bit. Amazon damn near parks at the corner and just stays there delivering to me somehow. Really cool how they do it but damn the $ does add up

Any thoughts appreciated. 17 days into flower

Tent temp 76
Leaf temp 74
RH 60

Photone App
center tallest cola 220
side tallest cola 460

PPFD meter app
center tallest cola 400
side tallest cola 775

 

[PerfecTrader]

I think its taller because its getting less; stretching to the light..

oooooooooooooooohhh f.......

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

My light is suggested to be 20-30 from canopy and I am a couple inches less than that already with the mimosa x orange punch in the picture. I turned the light up 1 click and would estimate I am at 60% now. I would obviously like to maximize harvest and give them as much light as they can take. Is it best to just increase light a click per week until plants say "Whoooooa greedy gretchen, slow your roll"? I know there are sick gadgets and maybe even a couple hundo one worth exploring but I think if I spend any more on my grows my lady is going to have me sleepin outside a bit. Amazon damn near parks at the corner and just stays there delivering to me somehow. Really cool how they do it but damn the $ does add up

Any thoughts appreciated. 17 days into flower

Tent temp 76
Leaf temp 74
RH 60

Photone App
center tallest cola 220
side tallest cola 460

PPFD meter app
center tallest cola 400
side tallest cola 775

It looks as if you're doing pretty good with supplying the light. However, in flowering I prefer to keep RH at 50% and my temperatures higher (82F). The tent temp is closer to what you would want to run with HID lighting than LED.

Is that 20"- 30" ... or is that 20CM - 30CM? If that's inches, you're probably safe increasing the light intensity a bit. Raise it to the higher side of manufacturer's recommendation and start increasing your intensity. They will grow into the light until you hit their limit. Once you hit your intensity limit, they start to grow away from it instead of up into it.

What kind of lighting are you using? Some of the answers vary some depending on what you have.

 

[growsince79]

My light is suggested to be 20-30 from canopy and I am a couple inches less than that already with the mimosa x orange punch in the picture. I turned the light up 1 click and would estimate I am at 60% now. I would obviously like to maximize harvest and give them as much light as they can take. Is it best to just increase light a click per week until plants say "Whoooooa greedy gretchen, slow your roll"? I know there are sick gadgets and maybe even a couple hundo one worth exploring but I think if I spend any more on my grows my lady is going to have me sleepin outside a bit. Amazon damn near parks at the corner and just stays there delivering to me somehow. Really cool how they do it but damn the $ does add up

Any thoughts appreciated. 17 days into flower

Tent temp 76
Leaf temp 74
RH 60

Photone App
center tallest cola 220
side tallest cola 460

PPFD meter app
center tallest cola 400
side tallest cola 775

What's the reading at the wall the height of the center tallest; and more important is whats the readings 6" below the canopy at the center and at the wall? Plants stretch to make the overall best use of avail light. My plants by the white paint wall seem to stretch more because if they dont they are blocked by the closer to center plants? If that makes sense.

 

[PerfecTrader]

It looks as if you're doing pretty good with supplying the light. However, in flowering I prefer to keep RH at 50% and my temperatures higher (82F). The tent temp is closer to what you would want to run with HID lighting than LED.

Ok thanks and perfect. I can increase temps by halting intake and closing AC vent in ceiling of room tents are in. RH is high now since I watered yesterday but am working on slammin it down. Some solid defoliation is helping as well

Is that 20"- 30" ... or is that 20CM - 30CM? If that's inches, you're probably safe increasing the light intensity a bit. Raise it to the higher side of manufacturer's recommendation and start increasing your intensity. They will grow into the light until you hit their limit. Once you hit your intensity limit, they start to grow away from it instead of up into it.

What kind of lighting are you using? Some of the answers vary some depending on what you have.

It is a HLG Blackbird 20-30 is hanging height and 20-24 is flowering. The tallest plant, that I now know stretched because of lack of light all the tops are 18ish" from light. If I take light down and got to Home Depot I can get rid of the pullies and buy another 2-3" but I'd rather not if can avoid. I would lose the ability to adjust if I do. Ok I turned up 1 click today and if fingernails seem more painted tomorrow do I back away or push tips at all?

 

[PerfecTrader]

What's the reading at the wall the height of the center tallest; and more important is whats the readings 6" below the canopy at the center and at the wall? Plants stretch to make the overall best use of avail light. My plants by the white paint wall seem to stretch more because if they dont they are blocked by the closer to center plants? If that makes sense.

ahhh ok that makes sense. Dannng what a fkin highball I am. I completely thought it was the tent walls reflecting causing the branchs to grow faster below I added 6" below canopy but these #s seem like hogwash to me using my phone


Photone App
center tallest cola 220
6" beneath 50
side tallest cola 460
6" beneath 25

PPFD meter app
center tallest cola 400
6" beneath 200
side tallest cola 775
6" beneath 125

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Ok thanks and perfect. I can increase temps by halting intake and closing AC vent in ceiling of room tents are in. RH is high now since I watered yesterday but am working on slammin it down. Some solid defoliation is helping as well



It is a HLG Blackbird 20-30 is hanging height and 20-24 is flowering. The tallest plant, that I now know stretched because of lack of light all the tops are 18ish" from light. If I take light down and got to Home Depot I can get rid of the pullies and buy another 2-3" but I'd rather not if can avoid. I would lose the ability to adjust if I do. Ok I turned up 1 click today and if fingernails seem more painted tomorrow do I back away or push tips at all?

I see, you're currently out of room without making the trip to home depot. Ever consider zip ties? It might be a solution to gaining a few more inches if you have some laying around.

The reason I said raise the lights is its easier to see how they respond with the extra room. This does not mean you can't accomplish what you're trying to do with gradual bumps without raising the light. You may have to look a little harder at what your plants are doing.

 

[PerfecTrader]

I see, you're currently out of room without making the trip to home depot. Ever consider zip ties? It might be a solution to gaining a few more inches if you have some laying around.

The reason I said raise the lights is its easier to see how they respond with the extra room. This does not mean you can't accomplish what you're trying to do with gradual bumps without raising the light. You may have to look a little harder at what your plants are doing.

Hmm good thinking. Yeah I have used up all the room I can but that is with the carabiners and wiring most lights provide. I did notice that it seemed the stretch stopped kind of abruptly. I'm goomg to watch them carefully for response to turning up the light 1 click. If they seem fine with this then I will try 1 more a week from now. I'm going to look into maximizing my light space but keep the mobility. I have a huge bag of every sized zip tie there is but my only issue with using them is then the light is stuck there until I cut it down, which would be tough if I've removed all the room.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Hmm good thinking. Yeah I have used up all the room I can but that is with the carabiners and wiring most lights provide. I did notice that it seemed the stretch stopped kind of abruptly. I'm goomg to watch them carefully for response to turning up the light 1 click. If they seem fine with this then I will try 1 more a week from now. I'm going to look into maximizing my light space but keep the mobility. I have a huge bag of every sized zip tie there is but my only issue with using them is then the light is stuck there until I cut it down, which would be tough if I've removed all the room.

I did it a few grows back with an ROI-E720. It's a bar light that is almost 4' x 4' in size and weighs a little more than 40lbs. I didn't remove the carabiners or the yoyos. I zipped up each corner of the light, they fell more or less to the side. Leaving them on gives you a safety mechanism when you attempt to take the light down. Look it over. It's possible you can do something similar.

 

[Observationist]

Currently I have 600w of led in a 5x5, I can’t even use all 600

Lol

Then with my other blurples I can push close to 1000watts

 

[Observationist]

You should b able to brother ..how highs your ceiling..i keep the lumatek pro 600 between 20-24" at 625 watt..some grows i will get one closer and get a little fox tailing..im running the se 7000 now between 20--24 ' at 85% which is 620 watts and tops are very uniform..

I definitely have a few feet to go up and turn, but I thought keeping it closer and dimmer for heat would be better.

 

[PerfecTrader]

I did it a few grows back with an ROI-E720. It's a bar light that is almost 4' x 4' in size and weighs a little more than 40lbs. I didn't remove the carabiners or the yoyos. I zipped up each corner of the light, they fell more or less to the side. Leaving them on gives you a safety mechanism when you attempt to take the light down. Look it over. It's possible you can do something similar.

Unnnnreal hah I have read your comment so many times over, that I refuse to admit how many. I know you know what you are talking about but something just wasn't clicking about you still advising the zip ties despite what I was imagining as a hassle and a half. Whelp it finally makes sense now and that is fkiiiinnnnn awesome and I just couldn't picture it. I leave it hung as high as possible, then ZIP all 4 corners to the roof bars
Before lights went out I measured and I have 6" from light to roof but 2 of those are the driver and cabling. Because of you, I don't have to go to HD and buy anything else and I'm going to gain 3-4" manana

4, 8, and 11" zip-ties ftw

 

[Blastfact]

Yeah id say that fits the bill pretty well. Seeing these recommendations for 40w per sq ft. Makes me cringe

I run high power currently at 56 wpsf in the 3x3, dual 260's and 84 wpsf in the 2x4, dual 350r's. Soon I will be moving the dual 260's to the 2x4 for 64 wpsf and the dual 350r's in the 3x3 for 75 wpsf. Just because I have the power does not mean I use it all. I like my 7' 11" Gorilla tents with the T6 exhaust fans/filter external on top of the tents so I have up to 7' of useful light height. This allows me to run lights low during the summer months with good light distribution with low dimmer settings and high in the tent during the winter with the dimmers up a bit to heat the tents. Also allows me to grow plants natural with no training,, just a pretty plant as intended. With a 6" fan above the lights and two 6" fans in the grow area and the 6" exhaust fans it's a huge help with controlling environment. I don't have to use any aux. cooling or heating even in the worse of times. With good even light across the canopy at what ever ppfd/vpd/dli I want to run at with what ever the external conditions are. I want and use the control power gives me.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I run high power currently at 56 wpsf in the 3x3, dual 260's and 84 wpsf in the 2x4, dual 350r's. Soon I will be moving the dual 260's to the 2x4 for 64 wpsf and the dual 350r's in the 3x3 for 75 wpsf. Just because I have the power does not mean I use it all. I like my 7' 11" Gorilla tents with the T6 exhaust fans/filter external on top of the tents so I have up to 7' of useful light height. This allows me to run lights low during the summer months with good light distribution with low dimmer settings and high in the tent during the winter with the dimmers up a bit to heat the tents. Also allows me to grow plants natural with no training,, just a pretty plant as intended. With a 6" fan above the lights and two 6" fans in the grow area and the 6" exhaust fans it's a huge help with controlling environment. I don't have to use any aux. cooling or heating even in the worse of times. With good even light across the canopy at what ever ppfd/vpd/dli I want to run at with what ever the external conditions are. I want and use the control power gives me.

You know, I wish you would have clarified this originally when you started speaking of all that extra power in your tent. Its absolutely not needed for your tent size. But it doesn't mean there's not a reason to do it ... but in my eyes, the better reason to do this is to allow an upgrade path without having to purchase more light in the future. That is, if it doesn't stretch your budget.

 

[Shaded_One]

You know, I wish you would have clarified this originally when you started speaking of all that extra power in your tent. Its absolutely not needed for your tent size. But it doesn't mean there's not a reason to do it ... but in my eyes, the better reason to do this is to allow an upgrade path without having to purchase more light in the future. That is, if it doesn't stretch your budget.

Yep, and if you can afford to run more powerful lights but have them dimmed down you'll extend their life and improve the efficiency.

I recommend people to buy the most powerful light they can afford. It provides you a little more flexibility if/when you inevitably expand your growing space

 

[Blastfact]

Yep, and if you can afford to run more powerful lights but have them dimmed down you'll extend their life and improve the efficiency.

I recommend people to buy the most powerful light they can afford. It provides you a little more flexibility if/when you inevitably expand your growing space

I'm at a crossroads right now with my 260 Rspecs. Do I upgrade them to Diablo Boards and new Drivers which makes them even better to grow and live with or do I do the new Rspec Far Red Boards or wait on some badass tech thats on the way from HLG. Either way HLG has my back. I'm firmly in the HLG camp and will stay here. If I wanted to come out of retirement and go back to work I would beg for a job with HLG. I will never have more space to grow than I have now. I could partition off the area my tents, water/feed station use now and gain a usable 9 sqf and have the light to do it. But what would I really gain? Basically two more plants and a soild case to use CO2 and that's about it. @MIGrampaUSA you don't want to hear it. I've written about how I operate and why many times in the past. And there will always be the but, but, but minimalist if not flat out cheap folks. I've dealt with enough of those people in my career as a manufactures rep in the pump, boiler, chiller and control world it's sick. It always cost more sooner or later and in most cases it's far sooner than expected. Most don't get to the later. They way I look at it there is no such thing as to much power and it will never be as cheap as it is today. And with power comes options, control and reliablity.....

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I'm at a crossroads right now with my 260 Rspecs. Do I upgrade them to Diablo Boards and new Drivers which makes them even better to grow and live with or do I do the new Rspec Far Red Boards or wait on some badass tech thats on the way from HLG. Either way HLG has my back. I'm firmly in the HLG camp and will stay here. If I wanted to come out of retirement and go back to work I would beg for a job with HLG. I will never have more space to grow than I have now. I could partition off the area my tents, water/feed station use now and gain a usable 9 sqf and have the light to do it. But what would I really gain? Basically two more plants and a soild case to use CO2 and that's about it. @MIGrampaUSA you don't want to hear it. I've written about how I operate and why many times in the past. And there will always be the but, but, but minimalist if not flat out cheap folks. I've dealt with enough of those people in my career as a manufactures rep in the pump, boiler, chiller and control world it's sick. It always cost more sooner or later and in most cases it's far sooner than expected. Most don't get to the later. They way I look at it there is no such thing as to much power and it will never be as cheap as it is today. And with power comes options, control and reliablity.....

I don't disagree with much of what you just stated except the part that I didn't want to hear it ...

I over-light intentionally and do the same thing for the very same reason but I'm more like 38-40w per ft sq. Many of us do it. Where you lost me was you didn't clarify your position until multiple posts later. In the first post, it sounded like you were recommending to a new grower a set-up that was vastly over-kill. Let the newbies walk before they run. Most are struggling with the up front costs to getting started. Otherwise, your views are solid.

Regardless its all good now that you've explained yourself.

 

[growsince79]

I'm at a crossroads right now with my 260 Rspecs. Do I upgrade them to Diablo Boards and new Drivers which makes them even better to grow and live with or do I do the new Rspec Far Red Boards or wait on some badass tech thats on the way from HLG. Either way HLG has my back. I'm firmly in the HLG camp and will stay here. If I wanted to come out of retirement and go back to work I would beg for a job with HLG. I will never have more space to grow than I have now. I could partition off the area my tents, water/feed station use now and gain a usable 9 sqf and have the light to do it. But what would I really gain? Basically two more plants and a soild case to use CO2 and that's about it. @MIGrampaUSA you don't want to hear it. I've written about how I operate and why many times in the past. And there will always be the but, but, but minimalist if not flat out cheap folks. I've dealt with enough of those people in my career as a manufactures rep in the pump, boiler, chiller and control world it's sick. It always cost more sooner or later and in most cases it's far sooner than expected. Most don't get to the later. They way I look at it there is no such thing as to much power and it will never be as cheap as it is today. And with power comes options, control and reliablity.....

I been using hlg for a while now and they work great. But I just got an ac infinity programable that is even better. Hlg needs to step up their game. I'd like to see something with separate programing for red-far red. I'm sure its coming, just a matter of who does it first.