Welp. Time to hang it up

Some background.

Been doing this for years plus and normally will produce high quality buds that yield very well. I’ve had experimented with numerous techniques and have battled every pest imaginable I thought.

So over a year ago, a friend of mine told me about his problem with RAs. I had zero experience with them. Did not even think he passed them off to me when I grabbed some cuts/and was helping him out. So shortly after I noticed a bunch of “gnats” hovering around my air cooled hoods trying to get to the light it seemed. Did a little research and found out these were adult flyers. Ended up drenching them with promise a few times and the harvest ended up pretty decent with a slight regression in overall quality of product. I just assumed my friends cuts were not good.

My next round, I decided to be proactive and use bontiguard in veg back to back feedings. Didn’t see many flyers at all this time but my ladies suffered in the end result. Right before harvest they looked actually good but did not feel dense. Then I cut and hung them. Yield and quality were greatly diminished. Not even sure if I seen them in the roots. Spent hours looking for them.

Shut down for 2 months. Sterilized everything. Started back up. This time I went to battle using P. Mites, beneficial nematodes, sticky traps, and caps beenies every third feeding. Almost time to harvest and buds are looking good AGAIN but not dense again. Been running CO2 the whole flower stage. Here are some pics prior to harvest.

A38DAB85-ABC6-4887-BD94-32884147712A.jpeg
2DAF8821-B44E-461C-9E88-C7D588BB8BB1.jpeg


During the drying process they began to shrink more than usual. And my final product suffered again. Looks decent but no meat on the bones. Like it literally feels hollow. I’ve grown for many years and usually produce a gram for every watt. And now I can’t get even close. After a bad year plus I’ve decided to shut down bc I can’t afford it anymore. But I’m so perplexed that “something” beat me that I can’t identify. I’ve searched hours upon hours in my soil for RAs and can’t find nothing. During the flowering stage I had other growers come look at my plants and all were blown away at how luscious and healthy they looked.

Any thoughts? I don’t wanna even wanna try to solve the problem at this point. I just wanna know what it is. I’ve searched every grow forum and

Still RAs?
A virus?
Broad mites (monitored for those) never had them
Thrips? No signs of them
Spidermites? I know them well. No signs
No pm

Just green luscious plants that don’t produce.
 
Strains differ in yields. What kind of equipment and setup are you running?
I run multiple strains. All of them I’m familiar with. I’m 90 percent sure it’s not RAs. I’ve searched diligently in the soil and can’t find one them. It has to be something else.

My setup is fairly simple. I run air cooled hoods with 600 watt hortliux bulbs that I replace every two runs. CO2 burner (4 valve) that is light sensored btw 1200-1500 pms.

Smart gallon pots 15 gallon with pro mix. My veg line is emarald harvest with cal mag/and or silica. Before flower i do a flush and run advanced nutrients. I’ve been using caps beenies every week for my tea. Both foliar and root pack. Quite expensive.

Besides the flyers over a year ago I never seen a root aphid in the soil. Plants are vigorous and luscious, no stunting. They’re ready for a feeding every third day. For this much damage and harm I’d imagine they’d be everywhere. Literally my yields have dropped by more than half and if you walked in my room before harvest you’d think I’m about to crush it. There’s just no meat to the buds. They look beautiful before harvest.

Has anyone else experienced this?
 
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They don't look bad. In kinda at a loss they will lose about 75% weight drying but im sure you are familiar with that. Are you getting more stretch than previous grows? Is overall weight down or just bud size?
 
They don't look bad. In kinda at a loss they will lose about 75% weight drying but im sure you are familiar with that. Are you getting more stretch than previous grows? Is overall weight down or just bud size?
Thanks for your replies. Yep I’m expecting them to lose water weight but not to this degree. If the plant normally produces “x”mount of grams it’s now producing less than half of that. But the prior to harvest they look fat and juicy with zero deficiencies.

Normal stretch around a foot plus. My blue print has been the same for years with only minor tweaks to improve. Like a trellis. Caps bennies. Etc

Im at a loss myself. At this point I’m giving up. But I still want to know the cause of all this
 
Buds will look fat and juicy and then drying process seems like someone switched my buds with some airy lose buds that are ready to fall apart at touch.
 
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I found when growing for a while tou get used to larger and better yields. Before I stopped and started up again, I was growing for more than 10 years. I found every time I didn't get as good of a crop as that one time I had the best crop ever, I was disappointed.

Dont give up. You're obviously good at what you do. Every harvest isn't going to be your best. If you feel like your buds could be denser, focus on the aspects that can affect that. Make sure your lights are still good. It might be your lights are used enough that they aren't putting out the intensity you are used to. Try more CO2 or less heat. In the last few weeks of flowering you notice your flowers are not hard and packed, lower the temps and this should cause the flowers to tighten up.

I'm sure it has more to do with your environment than any pests. If you've spend that much time looking for pests and haven't found any, it's most likely not the problem.
 
I found when growing for a while tou get used to larger and better yields. Before I stopped and started up again, I was growing for more than 10 years. I found every time I didn't get as good of a crop as that one time I had the best crop ever, I was disappointed.

Dont give up. You're obviously good at what you do. Every harvest isn't going to be your best. If you feel like your buds could be denser, focus on the aspects that can affect that. Make sure your lights are still good. It might be your lights are used enough that they aren't putting out the intensity you are used to. Try more CO2 or less heat. In the last few weeks of flowering you notice your flowers are not hard and packed, lower the temps and this should cause the flowers to tighten up.

I'm sure it has more to do with your environment than any pests. If you've spend that much time looking for pests and haven't found any, it's most likely not the problem.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. But I know it’s some sort of pest. Maybe it’s RAs that we’re just so burrowed in the soil that I never saw them. Or maybe bulb mites.

At the end of my run, they only thing I discovered was a brown elongated shaped insect on the stalk. I ran to grab the camera phone but it disappeared. I spent the next few hours looking for it.

It coulda been a single thrip? But no way thrips do this type of damage. I’ve dealt w thrips and have some experience with them. Just wish I would have gotten that pic.

The buds are literally hollow!!!!! What soil dwelling insect does this?

No signs of plant stress and no physical damage above soil.

Roots looked like something was eating/attacking them possibly.
 
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I had airy buds once and it turned out to be light leaking in from outside room. Fixed it then got RAs a few years later they wiped out whole crop(leaves turned brown and dried out) for some reason never got them acain after sanitizing room,
 
I had airy buds once and it turned out to be light leaking in from outside room. Fixed it then got RAs a few years later they wiped out whole crop(leaves turned brown and dried out) for some reason never got them acain after sanitizing room,
I envy you Rock! I shut down for two month a. I might restart up after 3-6 months but I’m so nervous trying to keep it float for four months. The bills add up fast
 
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Some background.

Been doing this for years plus and normally will produce high quality buds that yield very well. I’ve had experimented with numerous techniques and have battled every pest imaginable I thought.

So over a year ago, a friend of mine told me about his problem with RAs. I had zero experience with them. Did not even think he passed them off to me when I grabbed some cuts/and was helping him out. So shortly after I noticed a bunch of “gnats” hovering around my air cooled hoods trying to get to the light it seemed. Did a little research and found out these were adult flyers. Ended up drenching them with promise a few times and the harvest ended up pretty decent with a slight regression in overall quality of product. I just assumed my friends cuts were not good.

My next round, I decided to be proactive and use bontiguard in veg back to back feedings. Didn’t see many flyers at all this time but my ladies suffered in the end result. Right before harvest they looked actually good but did not feel dense. Then I cut and hung them. Yield and quality were greatly diminished. Not even sure if I seen them in the roots. Spent hours looking for them.

Shut down for 2 months. Sterilized everything. Started back up. This time I went to battle using P. Mites, beneficial nematodes, sticky traps, and caps beenies every third feeding. Almost time to harvest and buds are looking good AGAIN but not dense again. Been running CO2 the whole flower stage. Here are some pics prior to harvest.

View attachment 877730View attachment 877731

During the drying process they began to shrink more than usual. And my final product suffered again. Looks decent but no meat on the bones. Like it literally feels hollow. I’ve grown for many years and usually produce a gram for every watt. And now I can’t get even close. After a bad year plus I’ve decided to shut down bc I can’t afford it anymore. But I’m so perplexed that “something” beat me that I can’t identify. I’ve searched hours upon hours in my soil for RAs and can’t find nothing. During the flowering stage I had other growers come look at my plants and all were blown away at how luscious and healthy they looked.

Any thoughts? I don’t wanna even wanna try to solve the problem at this point. I just wanna know what it is. I’ve searched every grow forum and

Still RAs?
A virus?
Broad mites (monitored for those) never had them
Thrips? No signs of them
Spidermites? I know them well. No signs
No pm

Just green luscious plants that don’t produce.
Could be light leaks as rock said. That'll do it.

I will also say that if you are running Co2, you should have heat in the low 80's, and very intense lighting. Otherwise they actually produce a poorer crop than if you had just drawn air through the room. Seriously they need TONS of light. I've seen this happen a couple times with people setting up sealed rooms.

It doesnt look like pest damage to me, sounds more environmental or genetic related... That's just my 2c.
 
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Could be light leaks as rock said. That'll do it.

I will also say that if you are running Co2, you should have heat in the low 80's, and very intense lighting. Otherwise they actually produce a poorer crop than if you had just drawn air through the room. Seriously they need TONS of light. I've seen this happen a couple times with people setting up sealed rooms.

It doesnt look like pest damage to me, sounds more environmental or genetic related... That's just my 2c.
Thanks for the reply dirtbag. I’m sure it’s not environmental. It’s two separate rooms. And my lights CO2 humidity is all on point. The only thing that it can be is a soil dwelling pest.

Appearance wise the plants looked great. Thick stalks. Green vibrant fan leaves. Thick colas that were just hollow. I’ve searched forums for hours days months and now over a year for a pest that causes little physical damage from an appearance aspect but literally destroys the insides of your buds but to no avail. And it has to be soil dwelling which leads me to RAs that I can’t see (maybe there phylloxera) bulb mites or something else
 
do you know anyone firsthand who is growing out these same cuts with better luck? to me, this is the most likely source of the problem.

my advice:
heat treatments
aspirin
new quarantined stock, from seed. another location if you can..


i feel your pain. like other posters have said, if you are serious about this, now is not the time for a pity party. i've had my back against the wall, thousands monthly in electric, bonafide needy patients and family, and made it through a lot worse.

one thing i learned a while ago, but not soon enough, is just because something always worked one way, and you think everything is the same, that it should continue to be that way. there are more factors than you may realize.

when you say the 'inside is destroyed', is there is a noticeable difference in taste and high between the inside and outside of the buds?

how late in the run are you using co2? are you able to try a run without?
 
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Thanks for the reply dirtbag. I’m sure it’s not environmental. It’s two separate rooms. And my lights CO2 humidity is all on point. The only thing that it can be is a soil dwelling pest.

Appearance wise the plants looked great. Thick stalks. Green vibrant fan leaves. Thick colas that were just hollow. I’ve searched forums for hours days months and now over a year for a pest that causes little physical damage from an appearance aspect but literally destroys the insides of your buds but to no avail. And it has to be soil dwelling which leads me to RAs that I can’t see (maybe there phylloxera) bulb mites or something else
I've had battles with RA's and this sounds different. Are you seeing the white chalky stuff on the surface of the soil? when you water do you see crawlers moving up the stem and sides of the pot? Any fliers?

Any way of getting pics of a bud dissected or split in half to see what the inside looks like?
 
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Maybe it was some kind of mold spore that was hard to get rid of or kept growing in that environment.
Once I had a Tahoe og outside and it looked great. I cut it down and it had this funny smell to it and all the trics just started falling off it like sand. It was the strangest thing I’ve ever encountered. My buds on that plant looked great but lost the smell and deteriorated. No signs of brow spots or anything which was weird. Haven’t had it happen to any other plants but that one though. Man, I hear ya though. The struggle is real!
 
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You reckon it's over watering? Not sure why you're having to water every 3 days in such large pots, maybe because they are smart pots and dry out faster?

you wanna water once a week to prevent over watering, I also notice a slight tip burn which indicate the root hairs were damaged because of too many nutrients and that too can cause the buds not to develop as big as growing with out root damage.
 
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Notice this big bud never stuck together. It’s the like the meat that was supposed to bring it all together was never there. So instead of a nice top piece it ended up being a few hollow smaller pieces.

It’s not like these were individual buds. This was supposed to be one big top piece. It’s been going on for a year now.
 

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