What’s up with my plants?

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Bullmark69

Bullmark69

18
3
Please help...week 6 into the grow. Auto super skunk in FFOF, under a 320W LED.
I left town and came back to what looked like very thirsty plants...soil was bone dry and plant was droopy. I gave them 1/2 gal water w/ very light dose of cal mag and big bloom. They seemed to perk up a bit, but 24hrs later they look like this...quite droopy in places and kinda sad.
what’s going on ? And how do I get them back on track??
Thanks for any and all advice.
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4AF473F6 7F0D 474E A478 D67CA0906DC9
7CA607AD 9481 4E62 8504 8DEF05E53080
73732A3A 2B02 4959 871D F6FF4795065D
 
Imzzaudae

Imzzaudae

173
43
I'd agree with short on water.
When your plant dries out on you as described. You need to give it 1/2 gallon - 2 cups at a time. Come back in 15 min and give it 2 cups. And again and again until you have given it 1/2 gallon so the soil can absorb and hold onto the water. When you give the pot a big drink the water runs threw and out the bottom. We figure we did a great job but most of the water went out the bottom into the tray. If you dig down in the pot you will find it's wet on top and is quite dry deep inside. Give it 2 cups 4 times over an hour. Should fix you right up. I always water this way. A little at a time 4 times, gives me something to do.
Ron
 
mysticepipedon

mysticepipedon

1,892
263
The soil is pretty saturated right now....should I water more right now??
Were the sides of the cloth pot damp when you finished watering? If not, you didn't water thoroughly. Never decide something like, "I'll give it a half gallon." A half gallon might be what it needs, but you water until you've watered thoroughly and don't worry about the exact amount you're adding.

Other than that, your plant is coming back. I'm not sure what you're expecting.
 
Bullmark69

Bullmark69

18
3
I'd agree with short on water.
When your plant dries out on you as described. You need to give it 1/2 gallon - 2 cups at a time. Come back in 15 min and give it 2 cups. And again and again until you have given it 1/2 gallon so the soil can absorb and hold onto the water. When you give the pot a big drink the water runs threw and out the bottom. We figure we did a great job but most of the water went out the bottom into the tray. If you dig down in the pot you will find it's wet on top and is quite dry deep inside. Give it 2 cups 4 times over an hour. Should fix you right up. I always water this way. A little at a time 4 times, gives me something to do.
Ron
Hey Ron, thanks for taking the time to help..I appreciate it and need all the help I can get.
When I watered I staggered the plants and tried to do it fairly slowly...a tiny bit of runoff came from the side, but nothing straight from the bottom.
They are coming out of their dark cycle in a few min and I was gonna give them an hour or so of light, then (if they still look droopy) slowly give them small amounts of just water until I’m sure they’re saturated.
I also worried a bit about the big bloom and cal mag they were fed. It was a tiny dose but up until that point they had never showed any need. It’s Ocean Forest soil and should be depleted of nutes by now but I’ve read many posts from people that have experienced quite the contrary. However, if the plants were experiencing nute burn, the symptoms wouldn’t be droopy leaves, correct?
I’m sure u can understanding how u can become quite invested in a grow, especially once you get 6-7 weeks into the effort.
Thank goodness for sites like this and folks like you and the others who have jumped in to help.
thank you again,
Mark
 
OldManGrower

OldManGrower

14
3
It sounds like you are trying to determine if the problem is watering too much/not enough or nutrients. It’s very tempting to water more so that you can provide more nutrients. I normally water each of my 3 gallon plants and count to 4, then move to the next plant, then wait at least 10 minutes. If my trays don’t have any water, I water again and count to 2 or 3. Hey, works for me.

I don’t use cal-mag for my soil since I buy good soil from the hydroponic store that has these nutrients. In my humble opinion, cal-mag is for hydroponic gardening instead of soil. Just a suggestion- it wouldn’t hurt to do a flush, or just use water only the next time you water. Best of luck to you.
 
GreenMtnGuru

GreenMtnGuru

200
63
Love these dudes above - good stuff.

When you let your soil get super dry, a couple things happen:

All the left over nutrients in your soil (from bottle or salts) will crystallize. These crystallized nutes will release a burst of highly concentrated fertilizers to some unhappy roots when they come into contact with water. Fox Farm is a notoriously salty nute.

Your soil will become hydrophobic. Better built soils will be less hydrophobic. But can be an issue for inexperienced grower as your as natural reaction will be to water too much too fast.

The plants roots will be almost as dry as the soil. That makes everyone sad, including the microbes/fungi that depend on that moist membrane to survive. This creates an anerobic environment with little hope for full recovery without intervention.

So when a plant dries up like that, it is best to:

Water slowly with low ppm water (100ish) like said above, a little bit at a time over an hour. It is better to use room temp water and don’t be shy about getting >10% runoff.

Blast that shit with microbes. ReCharge or Mykos or Great White. ReCharge is expensive, but you get what you pay for.

Let her do her thing for a couple days, then start your feeding regiment again with a 50% dilution of your normal solution for the first watering.

Keep the humidity in a higher range while she’s recovering - it will help a lot!!
 
Bullmark69

Bullmark69

18
3
Love these dudes above - good stuff.

When you let your soil get super dry, a couple things happen:

All the left over nutrients in your soil (from bottle or salts) will crystallize. These crystallized nutes will release a burst of highly concentrated fertilizers to some unhappy roots when they come into contact with water. Fox Farm is a notoriously salty nute.

Your soil will become hydrophobic. Better built soils will be less hydrophobic. But can be an issue for inexperienced grower as your as natural reaction will be to water too much too fast.

The plants roots will be almost as dry as the soil. That makes everyone sad, including the microbes/fungi that depend on that moist membrane to survive. This creates an anerobic environment with little hope for full recovery without intervention.

So when a plant dries up like that, it is best to:

Water slowly with low ppm water (100ish) like said above, a little bit at a time over an hour. It is better to use room temp water and don’t be shy about getting >10% runoff.

Blast that shit with microbes. ReCharge or Mykos or Great White. ReCharge is expensive, but you get what you pay for.

Let her do her thing for a couple days, then start your feeding regiment again with a 50% dilution of your normal solution for the first watering.

Keep the humidity in a higher range while she’s recovering - it will help a lot!!
Thanks for the advice...I can tell it’s likely spot on. Couple things: is fish sh!t considered microbes?
Being a new grower I happened to leave one thing out....after I watered and they appeared to perk up, I did the unthinkable and did a minor defoliation....it started with just a few tiny bottom interiors and ended up claiming some of the bigger fan leaves that were clogging up the airflow and light. It was after this haircut that I noticed a decline and the droopy leaves. Common sense tells me not to do anything that might result in stress while they are bouncing back from a stressful dry period.
Anyway, as more proof that it is one of God’s truly remarkable creations, this morning I had a look and they were standing at full attention.
They had fought through the night and emerged victorious over my thick-headed actions.
While I have your attention, which is really appreciated, I’ll ask about going forward.
The majority of the soil is only 30 days old...I think they are on day 43(from sprout) and started in a solo cup but were moved to the 3gal pots on day 13. Ive learned that this Ocean Forest can be rather hot and could be retaining nutrients a lot longer than the advertised 3-4 weeks. The plants do have some minor leaf tip burn, which suggests nute burn. Be that as it may, the OF soil has smaller amounts of Potassium and phosphate than the flowering stage demands. Since it’s an auto, the race is a short one and there simply isn’t much time to Introduce flowering nutes. In my situation, what would u do regarding this??
Obviously I want the biggest fattest buds possible, but with this confounded soil and burnt tips showing, I don’t know whether to just give water, hope the burnt tips go away and give bloom nutes later....or give a small dose of bloom nutes now.
If this was a photoperiod plant I would know I had 7-8 weeks or more to manage. But this little auto is likely to move through the process a lot quicker.
I would really value and appreciate any thoughts here.......cheers
Mark
 
Imzzaudae

Imzzaudae

173
43
Hello again Mark. Your plant looks happy again.
Yes there are some pretty knowledgeable people in this forum. Compared to many, I'm also a newbie as I only have a few grows under my belt.
Your plant actually looks pretty good. But when growing under light its best to keep the canopy as even as you can. It helps. Outdoors let it grow like you have this one.
But for indoors.
Check out youtube. Mainlining, low stress training and how to scrog. You will love this stuff.
Looks like your back on track. All the best. Ron
 
Bullmark69

Bullmark69

18
3
Hello again Mark. Your plant looks happy again.
Yes there are some pretty knowledgeable people in this forum. Compared to many, I'm also a newbie as I only have a few grows under my belt.
Your plant actually looks pretty good. But when growing under light its best to keep the canopy as even as you can. It helps. Outdoors let it grow like you have this one.
But for indoors.
Check out youtube. Mainlining, low stress training and how to scrog. You will love this stuff.
Looks like your back on track. All the best. Ron
Yes Ron, I gave a half hearted attempt at LST and it clearly didn’t happen. The plants were so short and rigid I was afraid to really bend them enough. They were super healthy when I moved them from the solo cups into the 3gal pots. However, I think the move may have stunted them just a little and they were a lot tougher to bend than a taller plant.
I really like the idea of a SOG and a SCROG and hope to employ on the next run.
Until then I’ll dance with the girls I have.....I was wondering just how close my tops can get to the LED without being too close??
 
BirdLaw86

BirdLaw86

303
63
Dont move it any closer than 24 inches from the top of canopy. Thats the closest Id go. Any closer risks light burn.
 
Imzzaudae

Imzzaudae

173
43
I learned about the Lux light meter app for the iphone here in this forum.
It's free at the download store. And it works great.
After downloading and getting it working, I did a little investigating and found these general guidelines.
Adjust your light accordingly.
Seedlings 200 - 400 Par = 18,000 Lux at the top of the plant
Vegging 400 - 600 Par = 26,000 Lux at the top of the plant
Flowering 600 - 900 Par = 40,000 Lux at the top of the plant

I understand your hesitation to bend your plants. I have broken off or split a few that I wish I had not. But I love Mainlining. It just works for me.
I'm actually working on something special these days. I usually only flower out doors but may try a micro scrog indoors over the winter just for the fun of it.
I have a couple of 150w 2500k CFLs. Will sleep on it a few more times while I shop for a carbon filter. I don't want to stink up the house. But I'd love to have a go at it.

I veg with 2 - 300w 5000k cone sharped LEDs in a 2' x 2' x 3' tall space. About 8" above my plants.
Lights

A lot different than most Grow LEDs. So I can't help you on light placement but there are guys that will
be able to guide you in the forum.
Any way I'm glad your plant has recovered Mark. I'm 50 hours into a 60 hr work week so I need to get myself into bed, 0600 comes early.
Looking forward to Sunday so I can kick back a bit. Ron
 
TSD

TSD

561
93
I learned about the Lux light meter app for the iphone here in this forum.
It's free at the download store. And it works great.
After downloading and getting it working, I did a little investigating and found these general guidelines.
Adjust your light accordingly.
Seedlings 200 - 400 Par = 18,000 Lux at the top of the plant
Vegging 400 - 600 Par = 26,000 Lux at the top of the plant
Flowering 600 - 900 Par = 40,000 Lux at the top of the plant

I understand your hesitation to bend your plants. I have broken off or split a few that I wish I had not. But I love Mainlining. It just works for me.
I'm actually working on something special these days. I usually only flower out doors but may try a micro scrog indoors over the winter just for the fun of it.
I have a couple of 150w 2500k CFLs. Will sleep on it a few more times while I shop for a carbon filter. I don't want to stink up the house. But I'd love to have a go at it.

I veg with 2 - 300w 5000k cone sharped LEDs in a 2' x 2' x 3' tall space. About 8" above my plants.
View attachment 1192116
A lot different than most Grow LEDs. So I can't help you on light placement but there are guys that will
be able to guide you in the forum.
Any way I'm glad your plant has recovered Mark. I'm 50 hours into a 60 hr work week so I need to get myself into bed, 0600 comes early.
Looking forward to Sunday so I can kick back a bit. Ron
He said it was an auto, so transplanting isn't recommended and training and Defoiliating should really be kept to a minimum, if done at all. I'm in the camp of taking off solar panels doesn't help growth in veg/early flower, except old and sickly fan leaves.... and definitely never when the plant is already stressed... but to each thier own... I know some people say some autos can handle lst and such.... this is just my two cents from what I've learned on here... I've never personally grown an auto.
 
Bullmark69

Bullmark69

18
3
He said it was an auto, so transplanting isn't recommended and training and Defoiliating should really be kept to a minimum, if done at all. I'm in the camp of taking off solar panels doesn't help growth in veg/early flower, except old and sickly fan leaves.... and definitely never when the plant is already stressed... but to each thier own... I know some people say some autos can handle lst and such.... this is just my two cents from what I've learned on here... I've never personally grown an auto.
Yes I’ve def learned that autos don’t have much margin of error in the early stages. By “taking off solar panels” I assume you mean defoliating??
 
Bullmark69

Bullmark69

18
3
I learned about the Lux light meter app for the iphone here in this forum.
It's free at the download store. And it works great.
After downloading and getting it working, I did a little investigating and found these general guidelines.
Adjust your light accordingly.
Seedlings 200 - 400 Par = 18,000 Lux at the top of the plant
Vegging 400 - 600 Par = 26,000 Lux at the top of the plant
Flowering 600 - 900 Par = 40,000 Lux at the top of the plant

I understand your hesitation to bend your plants. I have broken off or split a few that I wish I had not. But I love Mainlining. It just works for me.
I'm actually working on something special these days. I usually only flower out doors but may try a micro scrog indoors over the winter just for the fun of it.
I have a couple of 150w 2500k CFLs. Will sleep on it a few more times while I shop for a carbon filter. I don't want to stink up the house. But I'd love to have a go at it.

I veg with 2 - 300w 5000k cone sharped LEDs in a 2' x 2' x 3' tall space. About 8" above my plants.
View attachment 1192116
A lot different than most Grow LEDs. So I can't help you on light placement but there are guys that will
be able to guide you in the forum.
Any way I'm glad your plant has recovered Mark. I'm 50 hours into a 60 hr work week so I need to get myself into bed, 0600 comes early.
Looking forward to Sunday so I can kick back a bit. Ron
What is “par”? I have the app now and will check the lumens, but I’m not sure what “flowering 600-900 par” means......thanks for the info about the app. Very handy.
 
TSD

TSD

561
93
Yes I’ve def learned that autos don’t have much margin of error in the early stages. By “taking off solar panels” I assume you mean defoliating??
Yes. That's how they process the light into energy to use nutrients and grow. There's a very fine line between helping airflow and damaging the plant's ability to carry out photosynthesis... even finer line with autos I imagine. I'm not against it all together, I remove many lower branches entirely for airflow purposes and I do remove some large fans in late flower... but I've seen posts on here where people completely remove every fan leaf and even some smaller leaves and then wonder why thier buds are sad.
 
Bullmark69

Bullmark69

18
3
What is “par”? I have the app now and will check the lumens, but I’m not sure what “flowering 600-900 par” means......thanks for the info about the app. Very handy.
So I kinda figured out what par is, and I got the Lux App. But I’m confused...from what I have read the Lux is measured and should be somewhere around 6000-8000.....or at least in the thousands. When I measured at the tops of my plants, which are roughly 20” away, the app says anywhere from 400 to 600. Should I be multiplying this number by 10x ?? My light is a HlG 320 and is very close to full intensity, so I can’t imagine the plants requiring so much more.
Its becoming obvious why I had so much trouble with science classes in general. It was a consistent D average with biology, chemistry, & physics.....and most of the time I only passed b/c the professor liked and felt sorry for me.
Anyway, the plants look to be doing fine. I gave them a good watering today with water only. I did the slow hand method and let things get saturated. Both plants did take more than the 1/2 gal each that I gave last time....roughly 3/4 gal each.
I guess I’ll see how they look over the next few days and decide whether to give any blooming nutes the next watering.
The advice of you all has been so helpful and reassuring..... It’s nice to know the help is there. Cheers
 

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