What am I doing wrong???? Coco help

[dankworth]

The micro is 5-0-1(npk) and the bloom is 0-5-4. Then Cal-mag(if botanicare) is 2-0-0 (but with 3.2 calcium and 1.2 magnesium)

That means 5% N, 0% P, and 1% K for the micro, for example.
So you multiply the NPK values of the micro x 6
And multiply the NPK values of the bloom x9
And multiply the cal-mag x 5
Because of how many mls of each bottle you add.
So if we add that up, for NPK we get 40-45-36 (N is 5 x 6=30 for micro. N is 2 x 5=10 for cal-mag. Like that.)
All the big kids relate ratios according to P. P is always 1.
So we divide the N value(40) by the P value(45) to get around .89 for N.
P is 1.
K is .8(36 divided by 45)
To give us the ratio of .89-1-.8.
Instead of the 3-1-2 ratio for example. You will have to read the GH bottles to figure out the math on Calcium and Magnesium.

The tricky part of a drip system in some ways is res behavior. Best uptake of nutes, I read, is when nute solution is 7-9 degrees below ambient temps for plants. I would just shoot for 68-70 degrees for res temp if I were you.
But then temps will vary. And ph may drift, it depends on a few things.
It is good to track ph of your res over a few days with a pump laying on its side like that circulating it. Then you would need also another pump to drive the irrigation gig.
Look at Leadsled's DIY coco pot drip thread on this site.

But if your ph drifts and you do not have a machine that tracks ph and pumps in small amounts of ph up or down, you will be screwed. Because feeding coco plants outside of the 5.8-6.0 range will cause problems for them sooner rather than later.

So that is why I am stuck handwatering until I set up a bigass res w/ph management. So my temp, ppms, ph can be very close to perfect dvery time I water.

But this one dude on this site pointed out how a good dripper system with coco gets twice the veg growth of handwatering.

Because coco performs the best at a certain stage of wetness, a certain "saturation rate". You will see this in person when you handwater. The surge in growth, then it tapers off as the coco gets drier and drier. You will have to fine-tune your gig yourself.

But when you scale up, you can get an aquarium ph monitoring system for under $200. That and some certain pumps(not same kind as ecoplus for example) that are cheap to pump diluted ph up or ph down to your res to adjust it.
And a chiller or heater, depending on what you need
And drain to waste.
Then you would have a system that could run for a week without you there and have everything work out awesome.
But only if your food is perfect.
You should read and reread the DIY nutrient threads on this site. It took me a bunch of reading to figure out WTF every one was talking about. I started trying to figure this out in may 2010. I should have buckled down and learned it. I would have saved a lot of money.

Hope this helps.
If I forget to look at this thread (I forget where I've been on this site) shoot me a pm so I know you have a question for me on this thread.

 

[dankworth]

Hey I just noticed you are running chocolope. So you know, my chocolope could handle only 80% of the food strength of the more indica plants when I ran her. So I had to dilute my mix or I would burn the chocolope. You may have to f with this by hand at some point if your green cracks are heavy feeders.
In the end the chocolope, while cool in some ways, pissed me off because she was a dainty bitch compared to the indica-dominant tanks I had for other cultivars. That and the chocolope cultivar I had promoted anxiety. I could smoke myself right into a light panic attack. It was lame. And DNA is lying. Chocolope is a straight C99 cross, and not at all the sturdy yielder they say she is.

 

[Gaval]

i feed my coco 4 x a day with ph adjusted nutes ranging from 5.8-6.1 havent really found a problem with ph issues maybe you could set up a drip system and feed em more?

 

[dankworth]

Biological stuff (teas, etc.) make my ph swing too much too fast. If I ran only ferts in the res, the ph would stay far more stable.

PS to all, I read that hydroponic solutions have more calcium and P, not K. This is to buffer ph so it does not drift as far in a recirculating solution. Thought I should point that out.

If LEDhead can keep res temps stable, he should be able to run a drip on a timer like you. Because I am pretty sure his res ph would be stable like yours. Having a solution whose ph stays put makes life better.

 

[LEDhead]

I hand water slowly and it's hot in hell so I'd definitely have to get a chiller to keep cool if I ran a drip system, I like to hand water too some need more then others to get run off

 

[objon]

Dankworth,
Great info in your post bro! Do you also think CNS-17 bloom ratio of 2-2-3 is ideal for coco? Any extra need for cal-mag or anything else when using the CNS-17 ratios?

Thanks!

 

[drknockbootz]

It seems people are making things really complicated. He doesnt need a chiller if he's running coco drip. I agree with some of the earlier posters and he shouldnt be too concerned with the runoff. Lucas works fine in coco as well as cns17 just pick one, ran em both and they are good nutes. If you dont want to worry about monitering your rez as much run dtw. A range between 5.5 ph and 6.2 should be fine and Ec ranging from 1.0 to 1.5 should be fine.

To be honest plants look fine, maybe a tad bit shocked. I would say raise the height of the light a tad, it should help em bounce back a bit faster and keep feeding with in range. Whether its 3 times a day or once every couple days they should be fine. But since they are small i would advise you DONT water too aggresively until they start showing new growth. Good luck buddy

 

[dankworth]

Dankworth,
Great info in your post bro! Do you also think CNS-17 bloom ratio of 2-2-3 is ideal for coco? Any extra need for cal-mag or anything else when using the CNS-17 ratios?

Thanks!

I tell you what, guys, the time I flowered with the CNS-17 duplicate formula I derived from AN 3-part and Botanicare's cal-mag, I had better results than CNS-17. Just a bit of difference.
I sat there hand-calculating the CNS-17 flower formula recently with the listed ingredients, and I could not get as close as I wanted to the 2-2-3 ratios they claimed. In the end, I felt short on calcium, magnesium, and sulfur. Mag and sulfur can be fixed by adding epsom salts (magnesium sulfate).
But the calcium I could not get right, not high enough.
And I thought maybe the sulfur could be higher, because sulfur contributes to scent and flavor (and thus dankness) according to the thread on sulfur.
So I ended up buying the salts to mix my own ferts. And mixed them today. And served them up. And my plants look frostier, better, happier than with the CNS-17. Enough for me to talk about it here.
CNS-17 is cool and all, and I really see no problems in veg, but I feel that the CNS-17 bloom formula would have benefited from the slight change I made in the formulation that increases calcium and sulfur. It was enough for me to notice the difference.
And it did not cost shit.
So I am stoked about that.
I have been trying to reproduce the epic weed I grew. I think this new nutrient formulation is the last thing in the way for me as far as this cultivar goes.

The problem with adding Botanicare's cal-mag is that it has nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, and maybe sulfur but I forget. If you can find a way to supplement with a form of calcium that does not skew the nute ratios, I think that would improve the 2-2-3 formula of CNS-17.

BTW the CNS-17 coco bloom 2-2-3 formula is rounded off. So is not a true 2-2-3. The true 2-2-3 I made with 2.3 calcium, .5 magnesium and 1.09 sulfur is better.

So for ideal values for flowering in coco before the pk boost, I like

N 200
P 200
K 300
Ca 230
Mg 50
S 109

Those are the values I got with my formula. I feed at higher ppms than those, but at those ratios, at least today.

And objon-
Look into something called calcium carbonate(I think). I think it is a way to add calcium without adding the other stuff you get in cal-mag.
You can duplicate my formula closely by adding epsom and maybe this calcium carbonate to bump up the cal, mag and sulfur.
I think GH has a calcium carbonate product maybe, but I do not know for sure.

I am pretty sure that 'my' formula (which is really a very slightly modified version of fatman's formula, which is pretty much CNS-17 bloom) can be improved on with a different nutrient ratio. So my gig is not the final word or anything.

 

[dankworth]

I need to kick down with the formula that made me happy today, so someone else can duplicate if they want.

I added to a 45ish gallon res-

1 ml/gal pro-tekt(maybe 20 ppms)
Calcium Nitrate 369.6 grams
Potassium Nitrate 30.4 grams
Monopotassium phosphate 117 grams
Potassium Sulfate 76 grams
Magnesium Sulfate 155 grams
And my trace element mix I did not add, it is in the mail.
This gave me right around 2000 ppms.

This gives (within 1-2%) these ratios
N 2
P 2
K 3
Ca 2.3
Mg .5
S 1.09

I like these ratios best so far of any I have tried in coco.
I bought 50 lbs of each of those 5 fertilizer salts, plus 3 lbs trace element mix, for
$181.06.
I said $181.06.
I will save so much money.
I can grow so much weed with these bags of salts. For no money. And the solution wants to stabilize really close to 5.8 ph.
If you can find a place that sells these salts, you can make your own version of any fertilizer in the store.

 

[LEDhead]

Thanks DANK :) here's what they look like today I feed Lucas Formula at EC 0.96 and ph 5.8 ran EC 0.73 ph 5.4 yesterday and the chocolope is stretched out

 

[LEDhead]

I need to kick down with the formula that made me happy today, so someone else can duplicate if they want.

I added to a 45ish gallon res-

1 ml/gal pro-tekt(maybe 20 ppms)
Calcium Nitrate 369.6 grams
Potassium Nitrate 30.4 grams
Monopotassium phosphate 117 grams
Potassium Sulfate 76 grams
Magnesium Sulfate 155 grams
And my trace element mix I did not add, it is in the mail.
This gave me right around 2000 ppms.

This gives (within 1-2%) these ratios
N 2
P 2
K 3
Ca 2.3
Mg .5
S 1.09

I like these ratios best so far of any I have tried in coco.
I bought 50 lbs of each of those 5 fertilizer salts, plus 3 lbs trace element mix, for
$181.06.
I said $181.06.
I will save so much money.
I can grow so much weed with these bags of salts. For no money. And the solution wants to stabilize really close to 5.8 ph.
If you can find a place that sells these salts, you can make your own version of any fertilizer in the store.

Is this formula for bloom or veg?

 

[dankworth]

This is the bloom formula. It is the accurate version that the values CNS-17 bloom is supposed to have. I like it better. More cal, mag, sulfur.
But I was just noticing how good my vegging plants looked last night with CNS-17 grow w/1 gram/gallon epsom salts. I like CNS-17 veg rather well, but I felt the bloom formula needed correction.
I believe you need to increase your food strength. So you know, I feed my coco clones with 750 ppms right off the bat. And I cannot feed anything 6 inches tall anything less than 1000 ppms. But all my plants are under 1k lights.
Your plants look like they need higher food strength. I would bump up the ppms to 900-1000 and see if the growth tips start coming in all healthy and green. A lot of deficiencies in coco can be fixed with a higher food strength.
And if you could take a pic with the hps off, and a cfl or something for illumination, it would be easier to troubleshoot your plants. If you have the time.
Hope this is helpful.

 

[LEDhead]

This is the bloom formula. It is the accurate version that the values CNS-17 bloom is supposed to have. I like it better. More cal, mag, sulfur.
But I was just noticing how good my vegging plants looked last night with CNS-17 grow w/1 gram/gallon epsom salts. I like CNS-17 veg rather well, but I felt the bloom formula needed correction.
I believe you need to increase your food strength. So you know, I feed my coco clones with 750 ppms right off the bat. And I cannot feed anything 6 inches tall anything less than 1000 ppms. But all my plants are under 1k lights.
Your plants look like they need higher food strength. I would bump up the ppms to 900-1000 and see if the growth tips start coming in all healthy and green. A lot of deficiencies in coco can be fixed with a higher food strength.
And if you could take a pic with the hps off, and a cfl or something for illumination, it would be easier to troubleshoot your plants. If you have the time.
Hope this is helpful.

I'm using a 400w MH right now so I should turn it off and take pics under a normal lit room?
I'm not understanding the ppm so I've went back to EC but it is at .96 should I up it they seem to be doing ok

 

[dankworth]

Do you know if your ec meter is .5 or .7?
Usually they are .5, so a reading of 1 ec=500ppms
So your .96 ec is probably 480 ppm.
I feed plants that size 1000 ppms, but they are heavy feeders.
If I were in your shoes I would feed them immediately at 750-900 ppms So 1.5-1.8 ec. Wait to see if they are stoked for a couple of days. Keep increasing the strength in stages to see what to them is awesome and healthy and what is too much. And I would recommend the CNS-17 veg food for that 1.5-1.8 ec feeding.
I feed my heavy-feeding indica I have right now at 750 ppms as a freshly rooted clone.
They love it.
So I definitely think that you should increase the food strength by 50%, watch for reaction, then increase strength in stages. Your chocolope could very well be the first to not want more food.
Yes on turning off the MH for pics. If possible get a cool white cfl to light your plants with for pics. It shows lots of detail that makes it easier to diagnose what is going on, not just by color, but by structural differences in the exact look of the leaves.
Do you have this light on 24 hours a day? I think it may have been desertsquirrel that advocated 20 hour days. My ladies really liked that when I ran 20 hour days. I think the short rest period allowed for periods of physical recovery that made them happier.

 

[LEDhead]

FUCKING BUMMED JUST LOST MY GC TO MITES the leafs have been getting these white dots on the tops the A-Hole I got them from said he had been treating mites for a minute but thought he had them all FUCKER, so I came straight home and looked under the leafs and sure enough, FUCK, so I cut her up and flushed her down my toilet and took the root ball and bagged it air tight looked at rest of girls saw nothing hope it was just the GC so I Neem Oil sprayed them GOOD and will pop back on lights in 1 hour FUCK ME RUNNING

 

[dankworth]

You need to google mighty wash. It is some hippie voodoo witchcraft water that is not harmful to people, and kills the shit out of spider mites. It splits them in half with a goddamn magic spell or something.
That shit seriously borders on witchcraft.
There is info and pics about it on this site.
It seems to be the new super awesome mite solution.
I didn't believe it at first either.
I have not used it. But everyone raves about it.
Hope this helps.

 

[LEDhead]

I'll be getting some of that too just to make sure but I'm back to neem oil spray for now and the other three (chocolope and both devils) look ok for now hope I caught them before they migrated to the other 3 girls but like I said they look ok no signs of mites and nothing on bottoms of leafs
@DANK, The feed is only diluted out 1qt. RO so I'm almost at full strenght but I'm mixing a new batch now but kinda hesitant on giving them full strength I just went from 450ppm to 650ppm and noticed some tip burnige a little

 

[LEDhead]

I don't know about the EC being .01 or .07? I was told the EC is what PPM gets its reading from just depends if the PPM meter or setting on meter your using be it NaCi or 442 the EC is always the same and more accurate here's a link I found check this out it'll explain better what I mean

My pen has both reading for ppm so I kept it safe by using the lower reading one

 

[dankworth]

Cool. Is the tip burn with Lucas w/calmag, or with the CNS-17?
If your pen shows ppm then I would trust it.

 

[Bud Spleefman]

Just FYI, the GH Flora formula you guys can't seem to make work is THE H3AD Formula, not Lucas. Lucas is 0/8/16.