What are the best organic nutrients that I can make or buy?

[critical]

Here is WA state department of ag link. This is to the humic acid UP reccomends just fyi. Lots of good info available on this site, not much on the biocanna.

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=5497

thanks b

 

[BimmerFeind]

Kelp... worm castings...etc

 

[Mmmmasonite]

I can back UP on this one. What he's stated us true. However their rates for application and annual re-certification are exorbitant. They're standards are made up by themselves, and not as strict as WSDA or Oregon's program.

The idea of OMRI is great, but in practice it falls way short. They're not a good agency at all, and I would never certify my products with them.

Alright....I can dig it......You won't certify your products with them because you don't agree with their practices. This doesn't mean that OMRI is not legit. How can we be sure that the extra rules and regulations that WSDA and Oregon implement are necessary? Maybe they implement unnecessary regulations to make themselves seem better than OMRI, who is more popular when it comes to consumer products. The extra regulations give these smaller organizations a leg to stand on and a selling point when vendors choose who to certify with. This also gives smaller organic vendors who certify with the smaller organizations a selling point when they are compared to bigger vendors who use the more popular OMRI....It's all politics...If it is certified....it is legit....period......the rest is industry politics and paranoia. We are making ourselves more sick with worry than with what is in certified organic products. We are lucky to have what we have. People in the world can't eat and these yuppy fucks are worried if their food is organic enough...Gimme a break!(cue Anchorman voice) "OOOOooooh....This is ridiculous....This tomato is not organic enough for me to eat...This will never do...Bring me your manager sir!" Could we get any more spoiled?

 

[Dunge]

I'm not finding anything but Blue Mountain Organics coffee on ebay.
I tend to pay attention to what Seamaiden writes.
Thanks girl.

 

[Seamaiden]

Sweet Maria's for coffee, BMO for simple, easy to use nutes. :) You're welcome.

 

[CT Guy]

Alright....I can dig it......You won't certify your products with them because you don't agree with their practices. This doesn't mean that OMRI is not legit. How can we be sure that the extra rules and regulations that WSDA and Oregon implement are necessary? Maybe they implement unnecessary regulations to make themselves seem better than OMRI, who is more popular when it comes to consumer products. The extra regulations give these smaller organizations a leg to stand on and a selling point when vendors choose who to certify with. This also gives smaller organic vendors who certify with the smaller organizations a selling point when they are compared to bigger vendors who use the more popular OMRI....It's all politics...If it is certified....it is legit....period......the rest is industry politics and paranoia. We are making ourselves more sick with worry than with what is in certified organic products. We are lucky to have what we have. People in the world can't eat and these yuppy fucks are worried if their food is organic enough...Gimme a break!(cue Anchorman voice) "OOOOooooh....This is ridiculous....This tomato is not organic enough for me to eat...This will never do...Bring me your manager sir!" Could we get any more spoiled?

Hey, life is all about choices. People have the right to choose whether or not they want to eat organic food. I just think that people should be educated as to what OMRI is and not just assume that because a product qualifies with them that it's completely "organic."

It is unfortunate that there are starving people in the world. Does that mean that I can't make a personal choice to eat organic or healthy foods? It's not even that it has to be expensive. We've seen a huge rise in victory gardens in the last few years with the economic downturn and rising cost of produce. Locally grown and sustainable foods are on the rise. Authors like Michael Pollen and farmers like Joel Salatin are making a name for themselves as leaders in this movement.

Most people I know who eat organic aren't "yuppy fucks" but rather middle class to lower middle class people who make a conscious choice in what they eat and how they live. They don't drive fancy cars or have huge houses, but rather live modestly and quietly. I can't imagine someone making a fuss like that in a restaurant, and it's unfortunate that you see people in that light.

Now personally, I'm not as uptight about my food choices, but I'm aware of what I'm doing every time I purchase something I'm about to eat. I drink organic milk.

If OMRI is good enough for you to go by, then by all means continue to support them. I choose to look at the label myself, or use a certifying agency that I respect and trust when I'm looking into organic products.

 

[Blaze]

It's all politics...If it is certified....it is legit....period......

I would agree that there is a lot of politics in play in the organic certification industry but the idea that something is legit just because it has a label is absolutely 100% flat out wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the organic label does not always mean much and there is no consensus on what is "organic"

Though I use certified organic products when possible and realistic, there are some things I used in my garden that are not certified. Why? Because sometimes the certified "organic" alternatives are either more toxic, or more damaging to the environment than their conventional alternatives or are not from sustainable sources. Plus many natural mineral sources are not considered "organic" by many certification agencies which IMO is just asinine. If all you ever do is look at the label you are not going to be making logical or informed choices.

 

[saffron]

i used to use bio bizz n bat guano ,in my ny diesel

 

[Mmmmasonite]

Hey, life is all about choices. People have the right to choose whether or not they want to eat organic food. I just think that people should be educated as to what OMRI is and not just assume that because a product qualifies with them that it's completely "organic."

It is unfortunate that there are starving people in the world. Does that mean that I can't make a personal choice to eat organic or healthy foods? It's not even that it has to be expensive. We've seen a huge rise in victory gardens in the last few years with the economic downturn and rising cost of produce. Locally grown and sustainable foods are on the rise. Authors like Michael Pollen and farmers like Joel Salatin are making a name for themselves as leaders in this movement.

Most people I know who eat organic aren't "yuppy fucks" but rather middle class to lower middle class people who make a conscious choice in what they eat and how they live. They don't drive fancy cars or have huge houses, but rather live modestly and quietly. I can't imagine someone making a fuss like that in a restaurant, and it's unfortunate that you see people in that light.

Now personally, I'm not as uptight about my food choices, but I'm aware of what I'm doing every time I purchase something I'm about to eat. I drink organic milk.

If OMRI is good enough for you to go by, then by all means continue to support them. I choose to look at the label myself, or use a certifying agency that I respect and trust when I'm looking into organic products.

I am just playin devils advocate man...Just lookin at the other side...I am glad that you are informed and make you own decisions about what you eat or buy when it comes to organics. I just think that sometimes we worry a little too much....Sorry about the yuppie comment...Just havin some fun......Peace

 

[ChickenJoe]

General Organics line....:harvest::harvest::harvest:

To hell with all the rest!

 

[Bubblemang]

general organics = biobizz. they were at one point partnering on a nute line, then had a falling out. now GO = BioBizz.

 

[Udyana Peace]

Bubblemang

You know a lot about extracting THC from cannabis plants and I was wondering if you could answer a question about using your method(s) for another purpose.

Let's say that I want to take a plant (identified as 'a plant') and in 'a plant' there is a compound (identified as 'a compound') and because of the molecular structure it would not do well using either a fermentation process (lacto) or an enzyme process (bromelain, pepin or papain).

So what is the best way to extract a compound? Some of the products sold by herbalists talk about using either an alcohol or a CO2 method. The alcohol process is obvious - it's the CO2 that has me puzzled.

THC is a 'secondary metabolite' and it's these plant compounds (in general) that break down in the fermenting process - however you get there.

Thanks!

UP

 

[Bubblemang]

Bubblemang

You know a lot about extracting THC from cannabis plants and I was wondering if you could answer a question about using your method(s) for another purpose.

Let's say that I want to take a plant (identified as 'a plant') and in 'a plant' there is a compound (identified as 'a compound') and because of the molecular structure it would not do well using either a fermentation process (lacto) or an enzyme process (bromelain, pepin or papain).

So what is the best way to extract a compound? Some of the products sold by herbalists talk about using either an alcohol or a CO2 method. The alcohol process is obvious - it's the CO2 that has me puzzled.

THC is a 'secondary metabolite' and it's these plant compounds (in general) that break down in the fermenting process - however you get there.

Thanks!

UP

I've smoked a ton of different CO2 extracts. I'll just say that making solvent extracts at home without permits is generally illegal in CA so I don't promote it. But I'm smoking some BHO right now, lol.

Here is a .pdf all about supercritical fluid extractions.
http://www.forensicscience.pl/pfs/47_veress2.pdf

Here's some info on the process as it related to Cannabis:

Super critical fluids are fluids which have properties of both gasses and liquids. In this state Co2 is an ideal solvent for extracting cannabinoids.

Essentially, a chamber capable of sustaining high pressure (stainless steel or something similar of appropriate strength) is filled with plant material. The chamber is filled with liquid Co2 @150-250PSI, and then heated up near 100F, causing the pressure to increase to above 1100PSI. A pressure regulator can be used to bleed excess pressure and keep the chamber at the appropriate levels. At this point the Co2 is super critical. The plant matter sits in the super critical Co2 for several minutes, and then the Co2 is released through a set of valves into a vented chamber where the oil is collected as the Co2 vents into the atmosphere (or could be captured in theory if you wanted to recycle its use).

The oil can be decarboxylated with ethanol at this point, and filtered with charcoal if desired.

The resulting oil is an aggregate color of the trichome heads basically (at least I assume), an orange to red colored liquid that will harden when cooled.

I guess it should be noted that if you don't handle this equipment properly, or were to build a device with no back pressure regulator, or not pre pressurize the plant matter chamber, or screw something else up, you could potentially create a gas bomb. If you don't know what you are doing, don't try it at home.

But its my understanding that this is how a lot of pharmaceutical extractions are done. Except using $100,000+ equipment that uses computers to control everything etc

https://www.greenpassion.org/index.php?/topic/24094-super-critical-co2-extraction/
Gray Wolf is the real expert. I stick with ice water mostly.

 

[Bubblemang]

My alcohol of choice is from Alchemical Solutions. While their sales pitch needs work, their products is alone in CA as the only certified organic food grade solvent of this purity.


I use this for hash tinctures. Then I use the hash tincture to help extract hash into coconut oil, for super strength capsules.

 

[kolah]

blip..sorry.

 

[Bubblemang]

Let's say that I want to take a plant (identified as 'a plant') and in 'a plant' there is a compound (identified as 'a compound') and because of the molecular structure it would not do well using either a fermentation process (lacto) or an enzyme process (bromelain, pepin or papain).

So what is the best way to extract a compound? Some of the products sold by herbalists talk about using either an alcohol or a CO2 method. The alcohol process is obvious - it's the CO2 that has me puzzled.

Depending on what you are looking for, fractional distillation may be the best choice for extracting certain terpenoids. CO2 and butane extract everything non-polar, so you could theoretically fractionally distill a butane or CO2 extract and separate the individual compounds by boiling points (mostly terpenoids). The trouble I've seen from fractional distillations of Cannabis, is that many of the terpenoids have similar boiling points.

From what I've gathered via CO2 makers, some are making their "tane" and then using alcohol to "wash" away the butane left in the extract. They replace it with food grade alcohol, which is then gently heated to purge. Less dangerous and less (theoretically) toxic in the end.

But if you are smoking with a Bic lighter and eating mcdonalds, then the BHO toxins are really a needle in the haystack. :)

... they absolutely loved your neem/karanja/silica emulsion at the farmer's market this past weekend. thanks. vwalaa! :420:

 

[dextr0]

From what I've gathered via CO2 makers, some are making their "tane" and then using alcohol to "wash" away the butane left in the extract. They replace it with food grade alcohol, which is then gently heated to purge. Less dangerous and less (theoretically) toxic in the end.

No this is not the reason for a second wash with Alcohol. Its to take the impurities out that are left when using butane as a solvent. Im just saying I still taste butane so its not getting rid of that.

Here is a thread that explains the whole process pretty well.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168388

 

[Seamaiden]

Dang, just learned something more today. The only form of fractionation I'm familiar with is foam fractionation. You know, hydrophila <---> hydrophobia.

 

[Mmmmasonite]

general organics = biobizz. they were at one point partnering on a nute line, then had a falling out. now GO = BioBizz.

GO and Bio Bizz are two completely different companies. Bio Bizz is a Holland based company and General Organics is GH's organic baby. The response I get from people is that General Organics is crap. I have seen really good herb from Bio bizz however and you can run it in hydro as well. I have heard nothing but good things from customers who use Bio bizz.

 

[Udyana Peace]

Bubblemang

The specific compounds that I'm interested in isolating are the triterpenes (limonoids) found in the neem tree, i.e. leaves, bark, root, seeds, seed husk, etc.

Besides Azadirachtin (including deacetylazadirachtinol) there is salannin, meliantriol, and nimbin (nimbidin) which provide another range of uses agains certain viruses like potato virus X, vaccinia virus, et al.

I received an answer to an email I sent to the Parker Group which controls much of the neem exports to North America and Europe. Using alcohol you can expect to end up with 2% nimbin levels using neem seeds which are easily sourced.

I'm glad you liked the neem emulsion and wanted to add something about karanja seed oil. Karanja oil has about 1/3 the viscosity of neem oil making emulsifying easier and quicker. It also has about 10% of the smell and some people might like that.

If you have fresh lavender flowers give this a shot. Get 2 cups of fresh lavender flowers and put into a food processor with an equal amount of water. Puree.

Add this to a container and fill with water until you get about 1.5 gallons. Let this sit for 36 hours or so. Strain to remove the plant material and cap.

When mixing either the neem or karanja oil for sparaying, add 1/4 cup of the lavender tea to the water that you'll be mixing the emulsified oil(s) in. Everything else remains the same (surfactant, silica, etc.)

UP