[Steve705]

3rd week flower. Growing in miracle grow ( I know it’s super bad. Didn’t know at the time haha). I have been noticing quite a few leaves turning colour and falling off. It’s not a huge amount. Basically the ones not getting light. I figured not a big deal. Decided to get a TDS meter and play around with it to try and be safer. Wanted to start adding a PK boost and make sure I’m not going over/under board. Here is what I had.

-Water before nutrients: 168PPM

-Water after adding nutrients (flowering A+B nutrients, small amount of Cal Mag and PK boost). : 712PPM. Adjusted PH to 6.2

-Water runoff after feeding: 1816PPM, 5.8PH

Are these readings ok ? the plant looks pretty heathy and haven’t really had any problems. Just need a little advice/recommendations. Thanks guys.

 

[AlexGrowns]

I'm not super experienced but these numbers seem in the ideal range, I've heard a few pple say under 2000ppm is good 2000-2500 you might want to do more runoff untill you get back down below 2000ppm.

I wonder if you had a mini flush, get your output downif you could up your input PPMs... but then agina you probably don't want to feed more than the max suggestion? I'm just getting started but for me it's getting rid of salt buildup before it becomes a problem... maybe some more advanced growers can chime in on this.

 

[JWM2]

Runoff ppm and runoff ph in soil is useless. Search slurry test and find out what the real numbers are. 2000 ppm is high. Do yourself a favor and do a slurry test then adjust accordingly. You may need to flush your soil to get it into an acceptable range if the reading is high. Loosen the soil prior to flushing to get deep down into the soil under the root ball. Then flush the excess salt buildup. Give it a few days to dry out and slurry test again.

 

[az2000]

Wanted to start adding a PK boost and make sure I’m not going over/under board.

The plants look too early in flower to boost P much. I would use an NPK ratio around 1-1.2-1.8. Work up to 1-2-1.8 by the end of flower (four more weeks?).

Are you following a schedule? I'd be careful. Your plants look great. The numbers sound good. 712ppm nutrient mix (including 168ppm water) sounds high for soil. But, the runoff ppms are good. You're using hydro nutrients, maybe that makes a difference. I wouldn't use hydro nutrients in soil. I've read many times that it's bad for the soil microbes. Chelated nutrients for availability to roots that aren't in soil (doesn't need microbes to participate in availability).

Next time you grow, you might try not phing the nutrients. Soil shouldn't need it. But, again, with hydro nutrients in soil, that may be different. The strength has something to do with it too. The soil's ph will pull the nutrient solution's ph. It has more gravity that way. But when the nutrient solution is strong, that becomes less true.

 

[Steve705]

The plants look too early in flower to boost P much. I would use an NPK ratio around 1-1.2-1.8. Work up to 1-2-1.8 by the end of flower (four more weeks?).

Are you following a schedule? I'd be careful. Your plants look great. The numbers sound good. 712ppm nutrient mix (including 168ppm water) sounds high for soil. But, the runoff ppms are good. You're using hydro nutrients, maybe that makes a difference. I wouldn't use hydro nutrients in soil. I've read many times that it's bad for the soil microbes. Chelated nutrients for availability to roots that aren't in soil (doesn't need microbes to participate in availability).

Next time you grow, you might try not phing the nutrients. Soil shouldn't need it. But, again, with hydro nutrients in soil, that may be different. The strength has something to do with it too. The soil's ph will pull the nutrient solution's ph. It has more gravity that way. But when the nutrient solution is strong, that becomes less true.

Thanks for the advice AZ. I do follow a schedule. I give the same amounts of nutrients and water every 2nd morning when the lights come on. The nutrient line is ok for soil. I used miracle grow so I have been feeding them next to nothing. Like 1/8 doses of what the manufacturer says. Very trace amounts. What should the PPM be after adding everything ? I will take your advice and not decrease the PH of feed.

 

[az2000]

Runoff ppm and runoff ph in soil is useless.

FWIW: NCSU has a defined method for runoff ph. (<<link) It must not be entirely useless. : ) I think most people don't do it that carefully, which makes the results unreliable. (I assume it would be more reliable than a slurry test, or NCSU would have chosen that as their method.).

Measuring runoff PPMs have been very helpful to me. I found 2400-2500 ppm is where nutrient lockout occurs. Using the ph probe (Control Wizard Accurate 8), I saw the soil ph track (fall) the rising PPMs. For my soil and nutrients, I felt it was more useful than ph. I haven't phed my nutrient solution (nor runoff) in 4 years. Runoff ppms tell me if I'm feeding strong enough (with enough volume) not to get salt buildup. The soil ph probe gives me immediate insight into the soil's ph. Not just when its drenched (with runoff, or in a slurry), but a day after, two days after. (The ph rises 1-1.5 point from wet to dry. Which led me to stop ph'ing my nutrient mix because the soil experiences such a large range. I've never looked back. The runoff ppms tell me the same thing as runoff ph: if the soil is acidifying. And, I don't need calibration solutions ph pen storage and cleaning solutions, etc. Just 1gram of table salt in 1 liter of distilled water = 1000ppm. Close enough for hobby growing.).

 

[az2000]

The nutrient line is ok for soil.

The label suggested it's for hydro. If that's true, it may work in soil -- but not optimal. If I wanted to use hydro nutrients in soil, I'd use a soilless medium like Pro-Mix HP (plus 25% perlite). The point of soil is to have a rhizozone. A living rootzone that's as important as the plant itself. Nutrients from organic sources (urea, blood meal, fish emulsion) would promote that better than chelated nutrients. Stuff you wouldn't pour into a hydro tank.

Like 1/8 doses of what the manufacturer says.

That doesn't sound right 700ppm from 1/8th strength? Full strength would be 4600ppm. To me, 700ppm sounds like 3/4 strength. (Have you calibrated your TDS meter? Mix 1gram of salt with 1 liter distilled water. That should be 1000ppm, depending on the accuracy of your weight and liquid measure.

What should the PPM be after adding everything ? I will take your advice and not decrease the PH of feed.

I wouldn't change anything now (like the PPMs or ph). As long as it's working, keep doing what you're doing. Next time, if I were you'd use something for soil (Jacks Classic, Grow More - Sea Grow, MiracleGro Tomato; it doesn't have to be multi-bottle. You can boost N with fish emulsion. And P with bat guano.). In that case 300-400ppm is typical for me.

That would be a good time to stop ph'ing and see what happens.

 

[Beachwalker]

3rd week flower. Growing in miracle grow ( I know it’s super bad. Didn’t know at the time haha). I have been noticing quite a few leaves turning colour and falling off. It’s not a huge amount. Basically the ones not getting light. I figured not a big deal. Decided to get a TDS meter and play around with it to try and be safer. Wanted to start adding a PK boost and make sure I’m not going over/under board. Here is what I had.

-Water before nutrients: 168PPM

-Water after adding nutrients (flowering A+B nutrients, small amount of Cal Mag and PK boost). : 712PPM. Adjusted PH to 6.2

-Water runoff after feeding: 1816PPM, 5.8PH

Are these readings ok ? the plant looks pretty heathy and haven’t really had any problems. Just need a little advice/recommendations. Thanks guys.

pH 6.5 is best in soil, probably even Miracle Grow soil?

 

[az2000]

The photos of the bottles show 3 products. If you use the A/B product as the label describes that's a 1-1-1.8 NPK ratio. That's a good ratio. I raise N in veg to 2-1-1.8. In transition I do 1-1-1.8. In flower I work up slowly to end at 1-2-1.8. (I do this with Grow More - Sea Grow and off-the-shelf fertilizers like fish emulsion, bat guano, bone meal, etc. I can vary the NPK ratio, watch how it affects the plant. I like that better than prepared A/B bottles. Plus it's healthy for the soil microbes.).

The calculated PPMs come out 550.

If I add the third "giga" bottle, the NPK ratio is 1-1.34-1.8 (600ppm). That's about where I'd be between early- and mid-flower.

I'm using the spreadsheet here (<<link). You can enter your bottles in that and play around with varying the ratio. For example 2ml + 2ml + 3ml (giga) per liter creates 1-1.64-1.8. About 500ppm. (The calculated PPMs are a little ambiguous. I calculate elemental P & K, as well as P2O5 & K2O. My measured results come out somewhere in between, closer to elemental P & K. I only use calculated PPM as a sanity check.).

You'll see a README file explains how to use the spreadsheet, and explains the PPM topic more.

FWIW: My feeding schedule is here (<<link). That might inspire you to use more soil-oriented products to do the same thing these bottles are doing.

Honestly I don't think you need to vary the NPK ratio like that. Cannabis grows fine with a 1-1-1 ratio all the way through. The only thing I would do to improve that would be: raise K to 1-1-1.8. That's why your hydro product looks good. They've got that dialed in perfectly. I've grown all the way from veg to harvest with that ratio. I can't say I notice much difference. The plants are healthier, greener at harvest. I didn't notice anything bad about that.

 

[oldskol4evr]

3rd week flower. Growing in miracle grow ( I know it’s super bad. Didn’t know at the time haha). I have been noticing quite a few leaves turning colour and falling off. It’s not a huge amount. Basically the ones not getting light. I figured not a big deal. Decided to get a TDS meter and play around with it to try and be safer. Wanted to start adding a PK boost and make sure I’m not going over/under board. Here is what I had.

-Water before nutrients: 168PPM

-Water after adding nutrients (flowering A+B nutrients, small amount of Cal Mag and PK boost). : 712PPM. Adjusted PH to 6.2

-Water runoff after feeding: 1816PPM, 5.8PH

Are these readings ok ? the plant looks pretty heathy and haven’t really had any problems. Just need a little advice/recommendations. Thanks guys.

i think your right on track,beautiful plants,miricle grow is good soil you just have to work it,you already have slow release nutes in it,so as your doing watch and tweek your ppm to adjust for it,you cant flush the nutes they just wear out,best thing is what was the start with fresh soil ppm,like jw said ,slurry test,he has a great thread telling exacully how to do it,with that said when you do it and find out what the soil is still providing you can adjust the ppm in the pot and finish the grow,for those that over do it is were the trash starts talking,you already know you have it and probally wont use again ,but if you figure the technic out to feed and adjust and provide great meds why not,back in the early 80's i used it a lot with there own feed and grew herb,your on track to success

 

[az2000]

I give the same amounts of nutrients and water every 2nd morning when the lights come on.

Also, I was going to ask about. I'm surprise MG potting mix dries that fast. I would think you're keeping the soil too wet. But, the plants don't look like it.

I use a very airy/light soil and it dries in 2-3 days. I've never used MG potting mix. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't dry that fast. But, I wouldn't change anything if the plants are doing well.

 

[Steve705]

Also, I was going to ask about. I'm surprise MG potting mix dries that fast. I would think you're keeping the soil too wet. But, the plants don't look like it.

I use a very airy/light soil and it dries in 2-3 days. I've never used MG potting mix. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't dry that fast. But, I wouldn't change anything if the plants are doing well.

Thanks for all the info AK. That’s amazing. Super helpful. It does dry out pretty quick. It didn’t dry out super quick when I was in VEG. Usually every 4 days. But I had cooler temps at that time. But when they started getting bigger and in flower, I found that it dried out really quick. They are in my garage and it gets pretty warm in there so I just assumed the heat and stuff is making them drink more. I can feel the difference in weight of the pot when they are dry vs wet. First time growing and I feel like I’ve learned a ton in the last few months. There is a lot that I’m gonna do different next time haha. I think for the most part everything will turn out. Just trying to keep them on the safe side. Thanks for all your help. Really appreciate it.

 

[az2000]

First time growing and I feel like I’ve learned a ton in the last few months.

It seems to be working for you. There's no rule that you have to use a better soil than MG, or a soil fertilizer product. You can keep using what you're using. Sometimes people regret changing things. You learn alot from those experiences. If you want to change things, maybe do it with just one plant. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

BTW: Not sure what jw's thread is about the slurry PH test. Oregon's Only (Nectar of the Gods) describes a slurry test. (<<link) It would be interesting if you could do that and the NCSU pour-through (runoff) method.(<<link) I'd like to do both and see how they compare. But, I haven't touched my ph meter in 4-5 years.

From what I've seen, soil ph isn't that critical because it experiences a range from wet to dry. That's probably why the imprecision of casual phing runoff works for people (because, within a full point range, or more, it's close enough). I'm sure my soil ph probe isn't precise ether. It cost about $60-70. It's a serious probe. Not the $5 cheap stuff at Home Depot. (It's an Control Wizard Accurate 8. I've seen the same device sold under a different name.). But I think it is accurate within a 0.2 +/- range. I think it's the nature of soil that it doesn't have an exact ph. I always found myself looking more at trends. Not precise numbers.

 

[jumpincactus]

Runoff ppm and runoff ph in soil is useless. Search slurry test and find out what the real numbers are. 2000 ppm is high. Do yourself a favor and do a slurry test then adjust accordingly. You may need to flush your soil to get it into an acceptable range if the reading is high. Loosen the soil prior to flushing to get deep down into the soil under the root ball. Then flush the excess salt buildup. Give it a few days to dry out and slurry test again.

And to add to that, he is in miracle grow media. No additional nutes are needed as MG is hot as Fokk. time released garbage that always keeps way too much N into flower.

 

[Steve705]

And to add to that, he is in miracle grow media. No additional nutes are needed as MG is hot as Fokk. time released garbage that always keeps way too much N into flower.

I agree for sure. Again, I didn’t realize at the time it was so bad to use. I’ve learned a lot since and decided to work with it. That’s why I have been giving so little nutes. I can easily get nitrogen burn. Just trying to stay safe. They look pretty healthy and good so I’m just trying to stay on the safe side. Na’mean haha.

 

[az2000]

I agree for sure. Again, I didn’t realize at the time it was so bad to use.

Which MG potting mix did you use? If you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have thought it was a hot/bad soil. Your plants don't show it. I've read people say they use one of the MG potting mixes without problems. I think it was "Organic Choice" potting mix (10-5-5. They make a "garden soil" named the same thing. I suspect that would be too heavy/dense.).

The generic MG Potting Mix is 21-11-16. I think that's the one people hear so much about. Also the "moisture control" varieties (slow drying usually is the opposite of what you want, unless you're under HPS and the radiant heat dries a soil too much.).

Based upon how well your plants are growing, I wouldn't rush into changing things. I think everyone (including me) has a reflexive dislike for MG products. But, that doesn't mean there can't be a couple products that work well. That soil could be one. I grew a plant using nothing but MG "Tomato" food. It grew very well. It's not the first thing I'd recommend to someone. But, not the last either. I think your soil might fall into that category too. So, don't think you have to change it. If you find something that works, that's half the battle.

 

[Steve705]

Which MG potting mix did you use? If you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have thought it was a hot/bad soil. Your plants don't show it. I've read people say they use one of the MG potting mixes without problems. I think it was "Organic Choice" potting mix (10-5-5. They make a "garden soil" named the same thing. I suspect that would be too heavy/dense.).

The generic MG Potting Mix is 21-11-16. I think that's the one people hear so much about. Also the "moisture control" varieties (slow drying usually is the opposite of what you want, unless you're under HPS and the radiant heat dries a soil too much.).

Based upon how well your plants are growing, I wouldn't rush into changing things. I think everyone (including me) has a reflexive dislike for MG products. But, that doesn't mean there can't be a couple products that work well. That soil could be one. I grew a plant using nothing but MG "Tomato" food. It grew very well. It's not the first thing I'd recommend to someone. But, not the last either. I think your soil might fall into that category too. So, don't think you have to change it. If you find something that works, that's half the battle.

I just used just regular MG potting soil I got from the local Home Depot. I attached a picture. Seems to work alright. My local grow store said it was bad to use MG too. I just have to feed very light and it seems to stay in a healthy shape. I think I found a “sweet spot” haha

 

[az2000]

I'm surprised that's working for you. Maybe you got an old bag, stored outside a long time with condensation cycles. Maybe the nutrients released and depleted.

 

[oldskol4evr]

And to add to that, he is in miracle grow media. No additional nutes are needed as MG is hot as Fokk. time released garbage that always keeps way too much N into flower.

i agree with that both medicine and veggies,you really see the difrence outside in heat and it effect yield alot,i have even gone 1:1 mg and reg garden soil with no amends other than organic matter and compost,all my pider roots stya in pots to provide hiways for next plants going in

 

[PlumberSoCal]

I just used just regular MG potting soil I got from the local Home Depot. I attached a picture. Seems to work alright. My local grow store said it was bad to use MG too. I just have to feed very light and it seems to stay in a healthy shape. I think I found a “sweet spot” haha

I won't use their products because of all the damage they've done to gardners for decades. F 'em. I don't care what's in their soil.

But with that said, I do indeed wish you luck!