What do we need to know about flipping reluctant autos?

[BigBlonde]

We have two Black Jack autos in our 4x4 tent that sprouted in May. Three months later, they still haven't begun to flower. This is our first crop and we're eager to start our second. We learned a lot and have improved our equipment, so we want to try again soon. So we've decided to flip these with the hope of getting a reasonably good harvest. Of course, we've never flipped a crop before, so some advice would be helpful. The plants seem very healthy even though we've made plenty of mistakes. After reading the help here and other articles, I think we have an understanding of how this should be done, but want to make sure we have it right.

Currently, the lights are on an 18-6 schedule. Is it as simple as changing the on and off times by three hours? Would the sudden change stress the plants?

The two ViparSpectra XS2000 lights are currently at 83 percent (400 watts). We plan to bring the lights to 100% after the schedule change. Is that right?

We're using Fox Farm nutrients and are changing to the last part of their soil feeding schedule. We believe one of our mistakes during this grow was to have too much nitrogen. We're probably past the worst of that, but there's probably still plenty of nitrogen in the soil. (Yes, we used the soil that must not be named.) Will that be a problem during flowering?

Is there anything else we should know or do?

Here's what the plants look like as of August 8th. They're bigger than they look in the pictures and we're running out of headroom for the larger plant (first picture). The light on that side is as high as it can go. The distance from the top of the plant to the light is 16 inches. The other light only has about six inches left to raise, but the plant (second picture) is smaller because it is a few weeks younger, so we have the light lower on that side of the tent. It has 18 inches from the top to the light.

Here's a close-up look at one of the older plant's tops.

 

[mysticepipedon]

I have never grown an auto, but flipping, in photo-world, is just changing the light schedule to 12/12 from whatever you had it at before.

The plants will not be stressed, but I think you will get a stretch that will last a few weeks. Depending on how much, you may have to get familiar with super cropping.

Maybe it's a thing to force flowering in autos by treating them like photos, but is it also possible that these are photos, not autos?

 

[freezeland2]

Might have lucked out and got photos. Flip the lights to 12/12 and wait a week or two to start looking for pistils. Nice looking plants. I like black Jack, good strain.

 

[mysticepipedon]

BTW, those plants do not look like they've had too much nitrogen. There is no leaf hooking.

 

[BigBlonde]

I have never grown an auto, but flipping, in photo-world, is just changing the light schedule to 12/12 from whatever you had it at before.

The plants will not be stressed, but I think you will get a stretch that will last a few weeks. Depending on how much, you may have to get familiar with super cropping.

Maybe it's a thing to force flowering in autos by treating them like photos, but is it also possible that these are photos, not autos?

Many folks say autos will flip. It's mostly how to do it and whether it's stressful are my concerns. Maybe I'm worrying too much. I think they're healthy enough to be cropped. I thought they'd flower long before this.

They were sold as autos, but who knows. They could be photos.

Might have lucked out and got photos. Flip the lights to 12/12 and wait a week or two to start looking for pistils. Nice looking plants. I like black Jack, good strain.

There are lots of pistils already. They started showing weeks ago.

They eventually grew well in spite of all the things we've done wrong, so we probably made good corrections. You've seen these before when I learned about watering. I think the poor start may have something to do with why they're slow to flower. We still have more of these seeds, so it will be interesting to see how they grow when we get off to a better start with better equipment.

BTW, those plants do not look like they've had too much nitrogen. There is no leaf hooking.

There was leaf hooking for a while. It got better, but many of the leaves are still a very dark green. I think a lot of the nutrients in "the soil that must not be named" were used up. A few flushes probably helped. We also started using low-nitrogen fertilizer.

I still worry that there may be too much, even if it's not at a toxic level. I understand nitrogen isn't good for the flowering stage.

 

[steamroller]

Not auto.
You do not have to flip autos or fast strains.
They will flower at 18/6 when they are ready.
3 months of veg is unheard of with autos or fast strains.
I have grown both.
Nice looking plant, enjoy having some control, looks like you are doing well.
Plants use N right till close to end, just in less amounts than veg.

 

[Brownthumb]

I’m on the “not auto side” treat em like photos and groom, wait a week then flip to12/12

 

[Moshmen]

Most autos will start flowers around week 4 from sprout so not autos imo and ck out the defol thread you need to remove some leaves to let air thru out the plant , nice work so far

 

[BigBlonde]

Thanks for all help. It's really looking like they might not be autos. I'll reset the lights tomorrow if I can.

 

[BigBlonde]

We decided to defoliate and give the plants a few days to recover before we flip. We did one plant yesterday and will do the other plant today. We're also using the time to change the tent. The new AC Infinity fan was installed yesterday. We're also doing things to avoid light entering the tent during the longer dark periods.

 

[PipeCarver]

We decided to defoliate and give the plants a few days to recover before we flip. We did one plant yesterday and will do the other plant today. We're also using the time to change the tent. The new AC Infinity fan was installed yesterday. We're also doing things to avoid light entering the tent during the longer dark periods

I've flipped and run auto's 12/12. In fact I've never ran an auto all the way through on 18hrs. I usually /always have photo's in my flower room under a 1000w hps, too expensive to run for 18hrs on any ways...but although smaller than the photo's and other monster auto's I've seen they were good. I've an GSC auto here somewhere that came out great on 12/12...nice tight hard sweet buds..

 

[Buzzzz]

I have never grown an auto, but flipping, in photo-world, is just changing the light schedule to 12/12 from whatever you had it at before.

The plants will not be stressed, but I think you will get a stretch that will last a few weeks. Depending on how much, you may have to get familiar with super cropping.

Maybe it's a thing to force flowering in autos by treating them like photos, but is it also possible that these are photos, not autos?

IMO if you can force flower an auto,it isn't an auto

 

[mysticepipedon]

IMO if you can force flower an auto,it isn't an auto

Granted, we mostly see the problem plants here on THCFarmer, but it seems to be fairly common for people to get photo seeds when they ordered autos.

 

[Buzzzz]

Granted, we mostly see the problem plants here on THCFarmer, but it seems to be fairly common for people to get photo seeds when they ordered autos.

I think the degree of photo has a role too, Finding a highly worked strain is rare and I bet a big undertaking with autos because one parent will always die so you would have to have a predictible IBL auto to start with or theres no chance of repeating, and $ is all that matters,get them sold and move on.

 

[mysticepipedon]

I think the degree of photo has a role too, Finding a highly worked strain is rare and I bet a big undertaking with autos because one parent will always die so you would have to have a predictible IBL auto to start with or theres no chance of repeating, and $ is all that matters,get them sold and move on.

I knew a guy on another forum who bred autos. He said it's a recessive trait and a plant is either all auto or it's photo, there's nothing in between. So assuming that's true, the OP got photos instead of autos.

IMO, my very non-biased and above board opinion, is that autos are for people without the ability to control light. When I see an auto growing in a tent, it's usually someone fairly new to growing who was told autos are easier.

There are good growers here who incorporate autos into their grows. I don't see a reason for me to grow any, though.

 

[BigBlonde]

I knew a guy on another forum who bred autos. He said it's a recessive trait and a plant is either all auto or it's photo, there's nothing in between. So assuming that's true, the OP got photos instead of autos.

IMO, my very non-biased and above board opinion, is that autos are for people without the ability to control light. When I see an auto growing in a tent, it's usually someone fairly new to growing who was told autos are easier.

There are good growers here who incorporate autos into their grows. I don't see a reason for me to grow any, though.

You pretty much have it right for us. This is our first tent grow. Yes, we wanted something easy for learning purposes, and this strain was said to be easy. That's also why we only grew two plants. The learning curve has been steep, too. I'll feel lucky to get a crop at all. I'm also eager to finish this crop so we can start another and put what we've learned to work. We didn't even have a tent when we started these plants, so we've come a long way. Now we don't lack equipment like we did when we began.

We sure seem to have a consensus about these plants being photos. We still have some seeds from the same order, so we'll be able to see how they grow. I don't think we'll grow them for the next crop, though. We want to try something different.

 

[Buzzzz]

I knew a guy on another forum who bred autos. He said it's a recessive trait and a plant is either all auto or it's photo, there's nothing in between. So assuming that's true, the OP got photos instead of autos.

IMO, my very non-biased and above board opinion, is that autos are for people without the ability to control light. When I see an auto growing in a tent, it's usually someone fairly new to growing who was told autos are easier.

There are good growers here who incorporate autos into their grows. I don't see a reason for me to grow any, though.

I agree,it seems like only a small advantage if any for an easier grow if you're learning.

 

[PipeCarver]

IMO if you can force flower an auto,it isn't an auto

Hey, do you know that from experience? some science to back that up? all I know is I've had auto seeds that I've flipped at 6 weeks ready or not and they got flipped, I've had others flip themselves at 3 weeks others at 5. They all came from 1 source..different strains all good stuff once finished & all were auto seeds. I'm no auto pro I prefer photo's, I like to veg for 2 - 2.5 months...can't do that with auto's so we need a botanist to jump in with some tech sht to call it.

 

[Buzzzz]

You pretty much have it right for us. This is our first tent grow. Yes, we wanted something easy for learning purposes, and this strain was said to be easy. That's also why we only grew two plants. The learning curve has been steep, too. I'll feel lucky to get a crop at all. I'm also eager to finish this crop so we can start another and put what we've learned to work. We didn't even have a tent when we started these plants, so we've come a long way. Now we don't lack equipment like we did when we began.

We sure seem to have a consensus about these plants being photos. We still have some seeds from the same order, so we'll be able to see how they grow. I don't think we'll grow them for the next crop, though. We want to try something different.

Hey, do you know that from experience? some science to back that up? all I know is I've had auto seeds that I've flipped at 6 weeks ready or not and they got flipped, I've had others flip themselves at 3 weeks others at 5. They all came from 1 source..different strains all good stuff once finished & all were auto seeds. I'm no auto pro I prefer photo's, I like to veg for 2 - 2.5 months...can't do that with auto's so we need a botanist to jump in with some tech sht to call it.

Yes ,it can't be full auto because it is mixed with photo, nobody grows pure autos for marijuana because it is void of THC

 

[PipeCarver]

I knew a guy on another forum who bred autos. He said it's a recessive trait and a plant is either all auto or it's photo, there's nothing in between. So assuming that's true, the OP got photos instead of autos.

IMO, my very non-biased and above board opinion, is that autos are for people without the ability to control light. When I see an auto growing in a tent, it's usually someone fairly new to growing who was told autos are easier.

There are good growers here who incorporate autos into their grows. I don't see a reason for me to grow any, though.

It's hard to breed the Red head out of the family.....You or your wife may not have red hair but it's possible for you to have a red headed child...somewhere along your lineage there may have been a red head....multi generations later...poof a Red headed child...lol....same with the ruderalis & cannabis and it doesn't have to be multi generations later