What happens in "the jar " ?

[UncleRomulus]

When we burp our jars we are letting out the bud farts. Gotta get those dirty gases and chlorophyll out over time. Takes a few weeks to get those nugs to fart it all out. Also the slower we can evenly dry em without getting mold the smoother it be I’ve found. Smooth fartless tokes me brethee

 

[Dirtbag]

Can you expand on that at all?

I can try,.. I use a roll of foodsaver vacuum seal bags with a vacuum sealer. I cut them to size so they will hold half a pound and fill them about 2/3 full and use the heat bar to seal them closed without removing the air. Gives me a little pillow of pot.

They are designed for long term food storage and have very low oxygen permeability, so they do essentially the same thing as a glass jar. But i can cure entire pounds or half pounds in one big bag. I can tell they work well as even the stinkiest stank doesnt escape them.

 

[Jimster]

I'll chime in as well!
Drying simply removes the excess water from the buds. The bud material and the stems they are grown on dry at different rates, with the bud material drying quickly while the stems release their moisture much slower. The difference between the desired humidity levels in jarred up buds isn't too far from the levels needed to support mold and mildew. The idea is to have everything about the same Rh level...dry enough to burn but moist enough to retain the taste and keep the bud from crumbling, like it generally does when stored in baggies for too long. Jars also protect the buds from breaking up from moving around.
So, once the buds have dried, they are transferred to the jars. The idea is to leave a slight amount of moisture from the stems to move into the bud material, making everything about the same humidity. During the jarred time, chlorophyll will slowly degrade and the true colors and tastes of the bud are revealed. This is the idea behind curing, otherwise you just have dried plants that taste like terrible old school homegrown. Buds are like tobacco leaves, the flavor hides behind a lot of the other stuff found in the buds...when you cure the buds, you get rid of a lot of unwanted stuff and the true flavors and colors come out.

 

[MIMedGrower]

What's happening in the jar depends on how you grow from my observations.

Hydro growers are waiting for unprocessed nutes to be broken down while rehydrating the exterior of the dead plant to give it a simulated texture of a more resinous, danker bud, while also attempting to preserve perpetually offgassing terpenes created before harvest.

Soil growers are letting the living plant continue to produce new isoprenoids and store them in its fatty tissue, while periodically providing fresh air to endophytes responsible for converting starches into sugars, sugars into alcohols, acids into thiols, etc as the plant slowly dries out and never realizes nor experiences a definable moment of death.

Thats just the way I see things. Organic bud glows like a rooted plant on shrooms. Hydro is as radiant as the plastic ficus in the corner.. 2 different products, 2 different processes. I'm not saying one is a waste of time or anything, but people gotta realize the question has 2 different answers depending on if you're talking about natural or synthetically grown pot.

This is a lot of mis-information. The jar is simply a controlled micro-climate. The bacteria inside the flowers continues to eat chlorophyll and starch until the moisture is all gone.

Doesnt matter at all how the plant was fertilized.

 

[Dirtbag]

This is a lot of mis-information. The jar is simply a controlled micro-climate. The bacteria inside the flowers continues to eat chlorophyll and starch until the moisture is all gone.

Doesnt matter at all how the plant was fertilized.

This is my understanding as well. It has more to do with bacterial biological breakdown than anything. Hence why you never want the RH in the curing container to drop much below 62% or there wont be enough moisture to sustain the bacteria while they complete their biological processes. And when that ceases you are stuck with what you've got.

 

[Smoking Gun]

This is a lot of mis-information. The jar is simply a controlled micro-climate. The bacteria inside the flowers continues to eat chlorophyll and starch until the moisture is all gone.

Doesnt matter at all how the plant was fertilized.

Any chance you have a source on that? I have never heard anything about bacterial activity in curing. It would be an interesting piece of info to read up on.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Any chance you have a source on that? I have never heard anything about bacterial activity in curing. It would be an interesting piece of info to read up on.

Not handy, sorry. Pretty sure it is in both the jorje and rosenthal grow books. Likely also read it on grow weed easy dot com and maybe clarks marijuana botany.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge. But i learned this stuff years ago. So if i am wrong please correct my info. As i remember the amonia (ish) smell when you burp the jar is the gasses from the process escaping.

 

[Jimster]

Not handy, sorry. Pretty sure it is in both the jorje and rosenthal grow books. Likely also read it on grow weed easy dot com and maybe clarks marijuana botany.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge. But i learned this stuff years ago. So if i am wrong please correct my info. As i remember the amonia (ish) smell when you burp the jar is the gasses from the process escaping.

I'm going way back in time here, but from my memory, if you were getting the ammonia burps, te buds weren't dry enough and the ammonia is from the breakdown of the plant matter via mold or mildew. The plants will degrade the chlorophyll on their own when allowed to dry slowly, while the curing seems to also get rid of the chlorophyll and other things, but I think the fish smell was an indication that things were too wet.
I could be way off base here, so please don't crucify me. From experience, when I jarred up buds before they were quite dry enough (the buds were dry, but the stems still had moisture), and I remember the unpleasant smell that came from the opened jars. Once they dried some more, the smell dissipated somewhat but was still detectable. Since I started to use more patience and make sure they are dry enough to snap the stem, but not bone dry. Putting the into the jars hasn't produced any of the odor that I got before. If you get your buds turning brown, it is from the same reason that you get the fishy smell sometimes. The fishy smell is from more of a fermentation process than a gradual absorption of the chlorophyll by the drying (but still active) buds.
This is all from experience and from research over the years. I could be wrong on several points, but the only time I really needed to burp a jar was to make sure it wasn't getting moldy (fishy smelling) or getting too dry. The jar is more for storing at a fixed humidity level, which helps to get and keep the taste and smell everyone craves. Please chime in if I have made any obvious errors!

 

[Smoking Gun]

I'm going way back in time here, but from my memory, if you were getting the ammonia burps, te buds weren't dry enough and the ammonia is from the breakdown of the plant matter via mold or mildew. The plants will degrade the chlorophyll on their own when allowed to dry slowly, while the curing seems to also get rid of the chlorophyll and other things, but I think the fish smell was an indication that things were too wet.
I could be way off base here, so please don't crucify me. From experience, when I jarred up buds before they were quite dry enough (the buds were dry, but the stems still had moisture), and I remember the unpleasant smell that came from the opened jars. Once they dried some more, the smell dissipated somewhat but was still detectable. Since I started to use more patience and make sure they are dry enough to snap the stem, but not bone dry. Putting the into the jars hasn't produced any of the odor that I got before. If you get your buds turning brown, it is from the same reason that you get the fishy smell sometimes. The fishy smell is from more of a fermentation process than a gradual absorption of the chlorophyll by the drying (but still active) buds.
This is all from experience and from research over the years. I could be wrong on several points, but the only time I really needed to burp a jar was to make sure it wasn't getting moldy (fishy smelling) or getting too dry. The jar is more for storing at a fixed humidity level, which helps to get and keep the taste and smell everyone craves. Please chime in if I have made any obvious errors!

This is much closer to my understanding. There is no bacterial activity in curing. It is simply that the biological activity within the plant has ceased; things like new cells and clorophyll are no longer being produced and the water within the plant is being released. This release of moisture is why we burp the jars, so this excess moisture does not stay within the jar and cause mold. As these portions of the plant degrade we are left with flavors and aromas that chlorophyll hides. I have never smelled any ammonia smell once I put buds into jars, it doesn’t seem as that is an aroma that signifies anything positive.

 

[BudBogart]

From my limited experience the ammonia smell has never been a good sign.
As soon as I smell it, I remove it from the jar and let it dry more. I try never to let that happen.
Paper bags are good intermediary stops to slowly allow the buds to finish drying before going into jars.

 

[Dirtbag]

Just found this article which backs up what MiMed and I were saying. But I'm curious enough to dig deeper on this later on today. I'd like to find some science from the tobacco curing process.

Here is a quote from the article in Maximum Yield;

"The primary functions of curing are potency and flavor. As the chemical components of the plant matter break down over time, it shifts the taste from an overly earthy and green flavor to flavors that are more palatable and that we can more readily associate with particular strains.

This process is conducted by aerobic bacteria present in the plant at the time of harvest. The bacteria consume the chlorophyll in the cannabis making the taste and overall experience less harsh. Just like your grow, your curing buds thrive in a micro-environment dependent on specific conditions in order to nurture the process.

If your buds are overly moist when you start to cure, you run the risk of allowing mold to grow, which can lead to harmful bacteria destroying the fruits of your labor.

It is important to keep your cure in a dark room or storage area. Light will degrade THC and interfere with the metabolic process taking place in your jars. Maintenance of the micro-environment is vital to keep your good bacteria thriving and your bad bacteria at bay. Your temperatures should be slightly lower than your growroom at around 50-75˚F. Now that you have an idea of what conditions you need to cure your cannabis, you can begin without further delay."

Goodbye from Maximum Yield

In print and online, Maximum Yield is your source for cannabis and cultivation knowledge, with informative grow articles and tips to enhance your life with mmj.

www.maximumyield.com

 

[MIMedGrower]

I shouldnt have used the word amonia. I did write (ish) bit i have bad sinus and dont always know how to describe smells. They are not always clear to me.

But i didnt mean a moldy smell.

There sure is bacteria eating chlorophyll though. And it off gasses. I will try to find good documentation later on.

Pretty sure its in every marijuana “textbook” i have read.

 

[The Jewels]

I really appreciate every last reply. Thanks,folks.
I not only learned a whole pile in this thread, I was also able to set my mind at ease.
Being inexperienced during my first grow; I just tried to maintain the basics and stay in the middle of the road. My crop came off just dandy and I really don't want to spoil it now.

I hung branches intact for a week. I had a good handle on the rh and temp. I left it drift up and down between 45 and 54 % and never topped 18C.

The main branch and large stem were still bendy , and. i paniced when I discovered that the pointy calyx tips were starting to crust off.
I left them on the branch and stuffed each plant into its own 4L tub. I left the lids ajar and bumped up the room closer to 60% for 3 days. ( kinda ripped the idea from clockworks method) I added a fϚkload of brovedas , and have been turning the buds everyday since then.

One bin smells like walnut banna bread and the other smells like burnt electrical tape,,,maybe a waterpump failure? Hard to describe the aroma really.
It is the smell you get when that pos 2 stroke justisnt going to get you home.
So - I guess that is good ?

 

[MIMedGrower]

I really appreciate every last reply. Thanks,folks.
I not only learned a whole pile in this thread, I was also able to set my mind at ease.
Being inexperienced during my first grow; I just tried to maintain the basics and stay in the middle of the road. My crop came off just dandy and I really don't want to spoil it now.

I hung branches intact for a week. I had a good handle on the rh and temp. I left it drift up and down between 45 and 54 % and never topped 18C.

The main branch and large stem were still bendy , and. i paniced when I discovered that the pointy calyx tips were starting to crust off.
I left them on the branch and stuffed each plant into its own 4L tub. I left the lids ajar and bumped up the room closer to 60% for 3 days. ( kinda ripped the idea from clockworks method) I added a fϚkload of brovedas , and have been turning the buds everyday since then.

One bin smells like walnut banna bread and the other smells like burnt electrical tape,,,maybe a waterpump failure? Hard to describe the aroma really.
It is the smell you get when that pos 2 stroke justisnt going to get you home.
So - I guess that is good ?

When they say the stems should snap from hang drying then go to jars they dont mean the main stem but the bud stem.

 

[Dirtbag]

When they say the stems should snap from hang drying then go to jars they dont mean the main stem but the bud stem.

That's an important point. If it gets to the point the main stem snaps it's gone too far and you'll never be able to achieve a suitable environment in the jars. And you cant rehydrate and reactivate the cure either. It has to go in the jars/container with the biological processes still ongoing and enough moisture to sustain it.

Personally I seal all mine up a little dangerously early, and burp often for the first week monitoring them closely. I dont wait for the bud stem to snap, I wait till the bud starts feeling firm and crusty, and the bud stem folds and stays folded bud doesnt quite snap. I look for it to feel like it's just lightly breaking inside when I fold it over, if that makes sense. If the stem is still pliable I wait a bit longer. It usually takes about 7-10 days on drying racks at 17- 18c and ~60 Rh.

After about 2 weeks in the curing container I'll notice the bud stems will have more snap as the moisture is totally equalized throughout the bud.

 

[jkpaw]

I remember reading that the point of no return was around 50% -- and that's been my experience. Not that you ever want to drop that low, just that above 50% you can still succeed in getting conditions stabilized higher (e.g., with a slice of lemon peal). When I'm just a few degrees below 62 I exhale my breath a few times into the jar and then close it back up. That seems to give the humidity a nice little nudge -- and I'm thinking the flowers shouldn't mind the extra carbon dioxide.

My big question has always been whether I still need to burp daily during the first few weeks if the humidity is stable around 62. I rely heavily on mini-hygrometers, and often find that, "magically," the flowers tend to want to naturally settle around 62% (as long as the drying was done right) pretty early on during curing. In such cases, do I still need to release the "farts" (as UncleRomulus describes), or is stable humidity all I need to care about?

So far, I've been burping at least daily for a few weeks regardless of stable humidity, and then gradually I start to skip days, until, after a couple months, I start burping every week or two. I don't seal "permanently" until about six months into the cure.

Early on, if jars get above 68 or so I'll put the flowers back into the drying rack for a few hours. Below that, I can leave them open in the jar for an hour or so to bring humidity down. I'd be lost without my hygrometers, but I've never had a mold problem.

 

[Dirtbag]

I remember reading that the point of no return was around 50% -- and that's been my experience. Not that you ever want to drop that low, just that above 50% you can still succeed in getting conditions stabilized higher (e.g., with a slice of lemon peal). When I'm just a few degrees below 62 I exhale my breath a few times into the jar and then close it back up. That seems to give the humidity a nice little nudge -- and I'm thinking the flowers shouldn't mind the extra carbon dioxide.

My big question has always been whether I still need to burp daily during the first few weeks if the humidity is stable around 62. I rely heavily on mini-hygrometers, and often find that, "magically," the flowers tend to want to naturally settle around 62% (as long as the drying was done right) pretty early on during curing. In such cases, do I still need to release the "farts" (as UncleRomulus describes), or is stable humidity all I need to care about?

So far, I've been burping at least daily for a few weeks regardless of stable humidity, and then gradually I start to skip days, until, after a couple months, I start burping every week or two. I don't seal "permanently" until about six months into the cure.

Early on, if jars get above 68 or so I'll put the flowers back into the drying rack for a few hours. Below that, I can leave them open in the jar for an hour or so to bring humidity down. I'd be lost without my hygrometers, but I've never had a mold problem.

I seal mine for good at about 2-3 weeks into it, once its stable at 60-62ish. Burping beyond that point isnt really necessary and just shortens the potential cure time. The real magic for me seems to happen between the 3 week and 3 month mark in a sealed container.

I will open one of the bags once every few weeks to give it a whiff and pull a sample though.

 

[Jimster]

Not to call into question about the bacteria being responsible for the cure, I feel that ths might not be entirely true. Anaerobic bacteria are the ones that will cause the buds to degrade, turn brown and off-gases ammonia. Mold and mildew, which are types of fungus, also thrive in this overly humid environment, so you often see the mold and ammonia gas together.
My pet theory and probably verified somewhere, is that the actual cure, which is the digestion/degradation of chlorophyll and possible replacing of sugars, is caused by plant enzymes that continue with their tasks until the chlorophyll is mostly gone (lack of food) or until humidity levels drop enough to inactivate them. If it was only bacteria that was responsible, it would be easy to re-seed the bacteria in a inactive jar with fresh, bacteria covered fresh material. Tobacco is cured using a type of fermentation, which I am guess is a little different than buds...but both rely on sustained humidity at certain levels and accomplish the same ends, which is the destruction of chlorophyll. I'm unsure about sugars, since they also give buds a certain taste.
All in all, I find it a very easy task to screw up. I save the jars for the final storage, although the flavors improve while in the jar. Once they are jarred, I maybe check them once or twice to make sure no mold is present, but after that, I don't open them. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Variety719]

Not to call into question about the bacteria being responsible for the cure, I feel that ths might not be entirely true. Anaerobic bacteria are the ones that will cause the buds to degrade, turn brown and off-gases ammonia. Mold and mildew, which are types of fungus, also thrive in this overly humid environment, so you often see the mold and ammonia gas together.
My pet theory and probably verified somewhere, is that the actual cure, which is the digestion/degradation of chlorophyll and possible replacing of sugars, is caused by plant enzymes that continue with their tasks until the chlorophyll is mostly gone (lack of food) or until humidity levels drop enough to inactivate them. If it was only bacteria that was responsible, it would be easy to re-seed the bacteria in a inactive jar with fresh, bacteria covered fresh material. Tobacco is cured using a type of fermentation, which I am guess is a little different than buds...but both rely on sustained humidity at certain levels and accomplish the same ends, which is the destruction of chlorophyll. I'm unsure about sugars, since they also give buds a certain taste.
All in all, I find it a very easy task to screw up. I save the jars for the final storage, although the flavors improve while in the jar. Once they are jarred, I maybe check them once or twice to make sure no mold is present, but after that, I don't open them. Just my 2 cents.

I’m going to have to agree with you. Been so long but I remember reading about it somewhere with the enzymes break down the chlorophyll converting to sugars.
Anerobic bacteria I always assumed was bad.:smoking:

 

[Dirtbag]

Anaerobic bacteria is bad. As per the article I posted above its aerobic bacteria you want working, not anaerobic bacteria.