Where do you get accurate genetics?

  • Thread starter Moe.Red
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
Status
Not open for further replies.
1diesel1

1diesel1

Staff
Supporter
11,118
438
What's that?
RKS, Purple Kush, Pine Tar Kush
There are many imposters floating around.
I’ve been through many.
Not one is comparable to what was here in Oregun in the 80s and late 90s.
These strains were the staple back then and seasonal. They were grown outdoors, you couldn’t tell the difference between indoors.
The dream is still alive I will take it happily to my grave:)
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
no, we have muddle genetics most breeders bread for c5 genes it's genetic and can be breed to be c3 if you find genes. Because our profit side has historically been the former not latter to sales. Is nothing that unlocks it growing more but pheno hunting and proper breeding technique to up the quality of that trait.


Half the people here won't even know what you're talking about. But you ain't getting the secret thcv genetics. Truly the good pheno hunters, They are hoarded as the next big wave by cultivators. I do have low C3 strains that show some propyl traits in genetics. I have a coffee can full of thcv marked ones I do nothing with. But you're going to have to pheno hunt and do a bunch of testing to find the ones worth isolating. It's not a matter of simply finding landrace strains. it's going to take mass testing and pheno hunting specifically to cultivate and breed/stabilize a thcv strain. Honestly, some strains if you look at consumer reports and their testing is many that can't even achieves the genetic potential of thcv marketed strains.

Look at Durban poison supposed to be great everyone still grows and harvests it and propagates the lineage for c5 genes not c3.


maybe it helps to share see some of the genetic info? https://www.researchgate.net/public...nnabinoid_ratio_completion_of_a_genetic_model

But if they were able to achieve pc3 up to 96% mean you can easily try to isolate the trait.
Because I don't think you will find a commercial strain that has been stabilized for this... YET. because profit-wise you could sell something stabilized for a million or better with THCV.



There is nothing special about Vidalia onions it's growing onions with no sulfur. We just live in a corporatized world where we can say "true Vidalia onions only come from Vidalia Georgia" and people think it's science. Not because of greed where we have a law that says only 20 counties can be officially Vidalias under the " Vidalia Onion Act of 1986" That's not science it's a marketing gimmick.




All I grow is sativas for my genetics and you will get the rare one that shows the trait at least you will think so in effect. Could be a completely pseudo effect. But honestly, I have way too much integrity to jump on this bandwagon with THCV as a personal breeder searching when its 10000% going to be used for the next cannabis marketing gimmick. Mostly I won't bother because money is an object and I don't have enough for a thcv pheno hunt. If you arent one of the people who has been nurturing this curve with strains for several years already we will have to wait for the market offering.
Because I know most breeders' purpose with THCV I'm 100% out. Cannabis has enough gimmicks. I've heard money people say from the sales side about waiting for CBD to peak and then push THCV. You are seeing more dispensaries push this.


but to your point and the medical side of those on the quest. the questions, you bring up. Yes, there is underground networks. Yes, you can ask breeders to help you cue for phenos before they discard. Like everything in bud though is no magical gathering place. It's simply making the connections of breeders pheno hunting. By our nature as breeders and growers, we live in the shadows and many people should embrace this whether legal or not for safety far greater than just the legal ramifications. But good luck finding those breeders directly or at the home grower level when most of them with the resources to be effective believe THCV going to be the new CBD on getting them to give up anything that might be a prized thcv genetic. there are people out there spending millions on this hunt. The best people tend to have layers between their work and the public. you will see their work through some brand or distributor/dispensary never seeing the magic person making it happen. Most breeders work outside the law even when they work within the law in most places. Because the laws don't come close to the numbers that you truly need to do for good breeding for genetic collection. Im not talking about the people who pump out seeds and call them genetics. But true genetic pheno hunters. That try to plant 1000 at a time or so per year.


I had this discussion with a friend and the problem to true thcv genetic collection and isolation is how much testing it takes and its a trait you can only truly mark at the finished product. You cant tell 2 weeks into flower if its going to be good/great value you're looking for like other pheno traits. Takes lots of lab equipment. Most of the bud to be wasted so it takes someone with resources to waste on the profits they can accumulate by finding that true strain. Even if you think you found a visual trait to cue it can be a false positive. So it takes people with the financial resources to commit to that level of hunting. Which can easily hit a 100k-500k cost when it's all said and done at the minimum mark having to use 3rd party labs and such before you found something you isolated you could call new(with integrity, plenty of breeders will claim it's new).

Honestly, I believe with all my soul that a true THCV strain will not ever come from a seed and will be a prized clone. Because many people I have discussed in their work and from what I've gathered from others. You can have an amazing one and it just doesn't stabilize to the offspring. without still being that random one. It's not to say it won't happen over time. But our time focused on C5 has hidden our ability to go for c3 and we have to wait for the probability of genetic rates to come into play with time to unlock them again.

In my opinion. This is a very complex issue because of that reason alone. durban poison tends to be proof of that. Honestly, most strains you see with high THCV are going to be muddle pheno isolations of something like that or some afghani strains possibly. I would start with landrace and go with pure Sativa but something that isn't popularly isolated for the c5 vs c3. this is why you see places selling thcv they say "strain has achieved up to 1% THCV" or whatever it is. Because odds are that one in the jar you want to buy a gram of didn't have any or minimal and not enough to be an agnostic without mass consumption.


THCV is very complex to discuss as a breeder on an open forum even if we discuss THCv research because of those implications right now and trends in the industry. it really opens oneself up to be identified by others in the industry if they don't want to be. The only people I imagine that would truly discuss thcv genetics right now are people not trying to do it YET! Because we are talking potentially millions in exclusivity distribution through legal channels. Most wont share this information.

But 100% the unlock is in random genetic material propagation.


I'm not saying any of this as a negative. I'm just giving my thoughts into the idea about your concept of "cracking the code" or "why isn't it readily available". Is lots more to it. So no one takes any of this as me attacking anything. I'm just discussing the concept of greed in relation to THCV and genetic hoarding. So don't take it negative.


even if you had a thcv strain the best one. You wouldn't find it in seed form without serious $$ for 2-3 years is my belief. Because of the profit side, it will generate through exclusive distribution channels. So that's why you don't see people rushing to give you their stock on this or truly "potential stock".

Edit: I'm not 100% calling it greed. if someone spends 2 million on trying to isolate thcv strain to offer it to people for their medicine and it costs 4x as much to grow that strain to offer it to others over another then they fully deserve to be compensated for their contribution to society. But many people don't seek fair rewarding compensation they seek fortunes.
I'm in the middle of a harvest, but I'll come back and re-read when I am in my easy chair. Appreciate the perspective.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
RKS, Purple Kush, Pine Tar Kush
There are many imposters floating around.
I’ve been through many.
Not one is comparable to what was here in Oregun in the 80s and late 90s.
These strains were the staple back then and seasonal. They were grown outdoors, you couldn’t tell the difference between indoors.
The dream is still alive I will take it happily to my grave:)
I am harvesting an imposter right now. Here is a side by side of Purple Kush. One is under UVB and the other HPS only. Got a writeup coming on that soon.

IMG 8837
 
RookieBuds

RookieBuds

119
63
Is Sensi Seeds no longer "the standard" on solid genetics?? When i used to study this stuff in my teens pining to be a grower, their genetics seemed to be the bees knees. ...
 
growsince79

growsince79

9,065
313
I'm still working to crack the code on the puzzle of cannabis.

Curious where you get your genetics from? Is there an underground seed or clone swap for high end growers that I am unaware of? I have about zero trust in buying seeds from a commercial market any more. I quite often end up with an autoflower seed in with my fem photos so I cannot really trust anything they send out. Doing my TLC testing, there is little difference between the strains I do get, which leads me to believe they are all inbred and claims of origin are dubious, or they maybe sorta get stuff mostly right but "a few orders might have gone out wrong" and sux to be me.

Even when I have sought out original breeders, I have gotten mixed, ultimately disappointing results. A lot could be in the fact that the strain has several phenotypes or is not yet genetically stable in seed form and I am just really unlucky. But man, I have bought some serious seeds. And I do know how to grow.

I tried everything with these TLC tests to coax out subtle differences and I did get them. However, the supposed high CBD ones even showed a high THC and low CBD, and the effects matched the testing. I'm running Jack the Ripper right now, supposedly the highest THCV cultivar available. Testing is on the right of the pic, no noticeable blip in THCV over all the other strains. Super frustrating when you are trying to coax medicine out of these plants and you can't get the cannabinoids you are targeting.

Lets say you were me. Money is not the object. You either want to acquire some original land race genetics and make your own, or find a place where you really get what you ordered. I suppose the latter requires a trustworthy source for clones. Where do you go?

Don't get me wrong, there are clearly differences in the many varieties we have grown. Without a doubt. But if I want a truly high THCV strain, who do I talk to? Spraying money and coins into the internet only to find out months later that the thing you were sold wasn't what was promised is probably the worst part of this hobby for me.

Thanks in advance,
Red

View attachment 1075007
What state?
 
growsince79

growsince79

9,065
313
Along the environmental lines, my systems are dead on. I can decide a setpoint and the system stays there regardless of what the rest of the planet is up to. Somebody told me I was growing in the space ship Enterprise.

I have recently added UVA, Far Red, and UVA/UVB combos to grows and I'm tracking results. If the problem is not genetics and on my end, I'll figure it out.
Wait till its safe to travel to Colombia, Burma, and Thailand. Strainhunter
 
R

redshift75

Guest
Is Sensi Seeds no longer "the standard" on solid genetics?? When i used to study this stuff in my teens pining to be a grower, their genetics seemed to be the bees knees. ...
Solid genetics in my opinion are everywhere. A crap genetic can lead to a good genetic. What we refer to as solid genetics is just figuring out a way to naturally have isolated genetic traits to be the most prominent. There is In no way a guarantee even with the most solid you won't get a random pheno development. some take this as a negative others a good thing. It's all about how you view your take on approaching genetics in my humble opinion.

To that, no one really knows the psychological biases we create over time and how that influences our perspective directly in relation to our perception of quality from one individual to the next.

edit: I like to think in a universal sense: Every bud we smoke at one point in its life was essentially ditch weed along a person's path. That someone took the time to help it reach its full genetic potential.
 
tobh

tobh

Supporter
4,194
263
Every bud we smoke at one point in its life was essentially ditch weed along a person's path. That someone took the time to help it reach its full genetic potential.
My response here is somewhat irrelevant to the overall discussion, but this right here is why I never put much credence on the argument that bagseed is a waste of time. I grew many a nice plant in my teen years, born from seeds I picked out of that shitty Mexican brick weed that was so rampant in the Southwest US in the 90s and early 2000s. Iconic varieties all came from bagseed, somewhere in history, whether through a grower doing a massive pheno hunt or just getting lucky with one magical bean.
 
R

redshift75

Guest
My response here is somewhat irrelevant to the overall discussion, but this right here is why I never put much credence on the argument that bagseed is a waste of time. I grew many a nice plant in my teen years, born from seeds I picked out of that shitty Mexican brick weed that was so rampant in the Southwest US in the 90s and early 2000s. Iconic varieties all came from bagseed, somewhere in history, whether through a grower doing a massive pheno hunt or just getting lucky with one magical bean.
I believe everyone is capable of growing good bud and bad bud. You can take someone's seed they call "shit" and grow some "dank" and vice versa. Sometimes things don't vibe with those people or their style. You cant expect every plant to like you. But if you take all the belief out. We know 100% the difference between a novice growing learning making mistakes and someone with a perfectly dialed-in grow with the same genetics. look at dispensaries one place their grow is 16% another 25%

If we break down the myth to bag and random seed and landrace. It's just mostly about commercial growing a stable crop that doesn't have every plant showcasing different traits and making it wildly inconsistent. it does not mean everyone won't grow into a great plant. It just isn't the best method to go about commercial growing. Everything we used has a trickle effect of growers that largely started to fill the demand of others. We have a trickled knowledge base that has no filter between things that have an origin on our commercial side vs our personal side. A lot of those personal preferences now are just our own mental bias or as we call it preference. Since when we discuss old school bag weed for people buying to grow even personal amounts. it was really to simplify a lot of it for gorilla ops to make them more hands-off. Lots of old-timers love the hands-off approach. Where new timers embrace LST and things that treat every individual plant. The old school method was If I'm going to do it I'm going big (lots of origin in great gorilla growing). You just cut your losses regularly. That's, why so many people were quick to embrace certain, claimed hydroponic setups that most couldn't replicate the GPW ever claimed. Was it they never learned or mastered it the same or was it the method? we won't ever truly know.


But to the theory overall this is a 100% commercial mindset thing. No one wants to waste time growing 60 plants to cut 40 down if they can grow 60 plants and keep 60 plants. if I was selling you seeds or weed of course I'm going to tell you to never grow bag seeds cause their shit. But to genetics, this is how you potentially find great resources to grow out and help you work without fear of losses on expensive seeds. I don't want to waste $100 5 pack of seeds of top shelf genetics learning how to embrace genetics. i do some test ones each year before my final ones to ensure everything is working properly so I don't ruin the good plants and they get composted. Price of being legal.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
edit: I like to think in a universal sense: Every bud we smoke at one point in its life was essentially ditch weed along a person's path. That someone took the time to help it reach its full genetic potential.
Quite true.
 
Homesteader

Homesteader

3,473
263
I found some different and interesting genetics with real seed company as well as seeds of Africa if they are still around. Nothing too frosty by any means if that is what you are seeking but certainly different than most hybrids you see in taste and structure. Real Seed Company has some interesting strains that maybe you could check out. For hybrids though, clones are the best bet but may not be available in your area.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
My response here is somewhat irrelevant to the overall discussion, but this right here is why I never put much credence on the argument that bagseed is a waste of time. I grew many a nice plant in my teen years, born from seeds I picked out of that shitty Mexican brick weed that was so rampant in the Southwest US in the 90s and early 2000s. Iconic varieties all came from bagseed, somewhere in history, whether through a grower doing a massive pheno hunt or just getting lucky with one magical bean.
I smoked back in high school then took a 30 year hiatus. We had 2 things available to us. One was called Lumbo and it was supposedly Columbian. Major couch lock. The other was called red tip sensei and was completely different. I watched the series Narcos


And I am convinced we were getting our red tip from them. Lumbo had seeds, red tip did not.

When we grew out Lumbo, we just got more Lumbo, but shitter lol. We didn't have a clue what we were doing. I wish I had some of those seeds now.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
@redshift75 if you don't mind me asking, what do you do? I don't know that I have met any industry insiders willing to talk.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
I found some different and interesting genetics with real seed company as well as seeds of Africa if they are still around. Nothing too frosty by any means if that is what you are seeking but certainly different than most hybrids you see in taste and structure. Real Seed Company has some interesting strains that maybe you could check out. For hybrids though, clones are the best bet but may not be available in your area.
Yup, I have a nice collection from them waiting for their spot in the mix. I'll be dropping some weird shit in the next 2 weeks. I've got Thai, Africa, Middle East, Mexican and Columbian as well as some hybrids like diet durban to play with.
 
Homesteader

Homesteader

3,473
263
What are you searching for exactly? Just high THCv? or are you just into the whole testing aspect? I have to get over to your thread it seems. Some pretty interesting stuff going on here for sure with your testing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom