Which Nutrient is causing issue? (good Pics!)

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I see no signs of fusarium in those pictures.

This isn't webmd and you don't have cancer. Pay attention and give them some love, bet they pull through for you.

Which would not be the case with fw

Broad mites tmv fusarium, everyone expects the worst. Be honest you can tell a little from the way they are talking about the problems, and scaring them away with the end all of problems isn't the way to do it. Not saying that it couldn't be, but going straight for crazy shit when it looks like it simply needs more food... Come on don't try and sell the dude on crying wolf.
 

PButter

RUN!!!
Supporter
842
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How long has this been going on? Did you recently put them under the hps or have they been there for awhile? Have you got enough fresh air getting to them or enough co2? Leaf temperature when lights are on? If you are using the bio canna line(pretty wholesome stuff- may need cal/mag uppers though), I would look for an environmental issue.

PB
 
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are you feeding nutes every feeding? isn't canna terra already charged, and has added lime in it?

You could be experiencing lockout. High calcium levels possibly - that can really mess shit up. I've had plants look like that when I feed them too hot, and any mobility issues in the top of the plant are usually associated with a calcium lockout.
 
I see no signs of fusarium in those pictures.

This isn't webmd and you don't have cancer. Pay attention and give them some love, bet they pull through for you.

Which would not be the case with fw
could it be more obvious? Yellowing of older leaves, red stalkes, big and nasty fungus spots, total nutrient block. For sure also Phytium in the roots is present. That comes with the blockage.

Give them a lot of light, a lot of nutrients and air will kill them for sure.

I would try to cure the roots with Aliette/ Fosetyl or an organic formula and maybe sprya with sulphur and copper.
 
1,797
263
Can you open it and edit a red circle around everything your talking about?

Never seen red stems before?? I've seen it hundreds, so to even incorporate that with something that is caused my so many things, shows me slight troll or just trying to scare the dude. Are you a hypochondriac in real life?? Your acting like it.

I want to see this mold you speak of too. All I see at mg spots.
 

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,629
638
Dutchman, there are deficiencies which can cause a form of necrosis that looks just like a fungal attack. If unsure, you can perhaps try one of two things: you can scope it, or you can possibly infect another plant by physically touching the affected leaf to another (I haven't done this! I've read, yes, on the internet, that one way to possibly Dx viral infection is to transmit, leaf to leaf. IIRC you may have to cut or otherwise open the infected area and the test/unaffected area to help facilitate, IF it's in infection).

While I haven't done this in cases where I've seen that issue, I have stopped its progression by addressing media needs, is what I mean to say here.

I see so many grows with reddened petioles that I think most folks think it's perfectly normal. I'm not so sure, but I am sure of this--it's easy to get when growing indoors, and very easy to get rid of when growing outdoors. Light is the big difference here, as well as being open to other animals, root volume, weather, etc. I've received many clones that show the reddened/purpled petioles, and two weeks later in my soils it's gone. That tells me it's not an always kind of thing.

When I get really good at getting rid of the reddened petioles indoors without causing other problems, I'll get back to ya!
 
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Fusarium wilt without the wilt... really?
If the plants are still vegging, they have not yet reached the "wilt" stage. That will usually happen within the first three weeks of flower when they are put under the stress of the bigger lights, or, as Squiggly put it, ..the fungi "waits until its numbers are very high and then flips the switch". Then, wilt. I could be wrong but I thought in the first post he said he was at 5 weeks veg. Really hard to be sure about these diseases though which is why I always suggest testing them at a lab. Or, just start again and see if you get the same results. I for one, hope he does not have fusarium and that no one else here ever gets it in their garden. But it is very real and it should, at least, be considered. You can waste a lot of time chasing phantom deficiencies - I did, for a year!
 

Rootbound

Moderator
Staff member
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263
Can you open it and edit a red circle around everything your talking about?

Never seen red stems before?? I've seen it hundreds, so to even incorporate that with something that is caused my so many things, shows me slight troll or just trying to scare the dude. Are you a hypochondriac in real life?? Your acting like it.

I want to see this mold you speak of too. All I see at mg spots.
I agree with you 100% CR !! Thats why I suggested checking the PH in and out. Can cause many def's. Seen it many times. We are all here just trying to help dutch!
 
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I might have missed this earlier, but what medium is he using?? A simple answer like 'soil' or 'soilless' would not help IMO.

OP, if you could be very specific with the name on the bag and the ingredients listed on your bag of substrate. That would help tons, because I seen you water in around 6.5 and run-off is close to 6.5. That would be great with soil, for example, FF Ocean Forest. But if you use a peat and or coco based medium you need the pH to stay in the range of 5.8-6.2, that info came from multiple growers with experience and also Sunshine Advanced website (they make peat and/or coco based substrates. Just trying to help you bro, good luck.
 
I see so many grows with reddened petioles that I think most folks think it's perfectly normal. I'm not so sure, but I am sure of this--it's easy to get when growing indoors, and very easy to get rid of when growing outdoors. Light is the big difference here, as well as being open to other animals, root volume, weather, etc. I've received many clones that show the reddened/purpled petioles, and two weeks later in my soils it's gone. That tells me it's not an always kind of thing.

When I get really good at getting rid of the reddened petioles indoors without causing other problems, I'll get back to ya!

OK, I apologize. It is a perfectly healthy plant with just a bit of a nutrient deficiency. I wish you a happy harvest. Be sure to take some clones and give them to friends with some soil of the pots. Aplly loads of nutrients and lower the lights: a monster harvest is waiting for you!
 
If the plants are still vegging, they have not yet reached the "wilt" stage. That will usually happen within the first three weeks of flower when they are put under the stress of the bigger lights, or, as Squiggly put it, ..the fungi "waits until its numbers are very high and then flips the switch". Then, wilt. I could be wrong but I thought in the first post he said he was at 5 weeks veg. Really hard to be sure about these diseases though which is why I always suggest testing them at a lab. Or, just start again and see if you get the same results. I for one, hope he does not have fusarium and that no one else here ever gets it in their garden. But it is very real and it should, at least, be considered. You can waste a lot of time chasing phantom deficiencies - I did, for a year!
Let them just apply loads of nutrients....some have to learn the hard way.
 
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Op here.

I doubled thier food intake during the last watering 5 days ago.
Its difficult to tell as there was alot of necrosis, yellowing already present in the scrog.
The jury is still out if its fixed, but I do think i see alot less progression of death/decay.
Yesterday I trimmed all the dead/necrotic/yellowing fan leaves etc. It will make it much easier to see if the problem is still progressing or if the new growth is healthier.

I'll be sure to update to the thread once again.

As a control, I gave a single plant a good flush, and no food. Within 2-3 days, the evil had spread throughout the plant very quickly. So i believe that also points to a defiency? The plants which got food did not exhibit the same fast decline, so fingers crossed.

How long has this been going on? Did you recently put them under the hps or have they been there for awhile? Have you got enough fresh air getting to them or enough co2? Leaf temperature when lights are on? If you are using the bio canna line(pretty wholesome stuff- may need cal/mag uppers though), I would look for an environmental issue.
approx 4 weeks. Right from when they were quite young. They appeared to get better, but once they started to be weaved into thier screen, it got worst. Perhaps the extra photosynthesis placed higher demands on the P uptake which was also insufficent.

PB
are you feeding nutes every feeding? isn't canna terra already charged, and has added lime in it?

You could be experiencing lockout. High calcium levels possibly - that can really mess shit up. I've had plants look like that when I feed them too hot, and any mobility issues in the top of the plant are usually associated with a calcium lockout.
Yes feeding every water (4-6 days). I am not aware of any extra lime in terra veg, but i'll certainly google it now and read up on it. I did add a fair whack of lime to the soil to adjust the PH. I've never done that before. But my soil bags are comming at 5.8ph instead of more suitable 6.3+ph. Thanks for the suggestion.

I might have missed this earlier, but what medium is he using?? A simple answer like 'soil' or 'soilless' would not help IMO.

OP, if you could be very specific with the name on the bag and the ingredients listed on your bag of substrate. That would help tons, because I seen you water in around 6.5 and run-off is close to 6.5. That would be great with soil, for example, FF Ocean Forest. But if you use a peat and or coco based medium you need the pH to stay in the range of 5.8-6.2, that info came from multiple growers with experience and also Sunshine Advanced website (they make peat and/or coco based substrates. Just trying to help you bro, good luck.
I am using Soil, Canna Terra Professional. It came at 5.8ph buffered strongly. I found this far too low and always believed soil should be more like 6.3-6.5. So i added lots of lime and flushed it heavily (recirculated the flushing water and adjusted the Ph as the water went down and the soil went up.
 
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. I found this far too low and always believed soil should be more like 6.3-6.5. So i added lots of lime and flushed it heavily (recirculated the flushing water and adjusted the Ph as the water went down and the soil went up.
You believed wrong, and it is currently killing your plants. Bring your pH down.

A lot.

To 6 at a minimum. If I was you I'd be watering in at 5.5-5.6 and looking at the runoff. If it's still above 6 you have found your problem, too much lime.

If that is the case, continue watering in 5.5 till your pH drops below 6 and then water at 5.8-6

Do not bring your pH anywhere near that high until you are at least in mid flower. Keep it around 6.

Your plants are starving, you have locked out half of their nutrients. No doubt your plants roots have their proton pumps on overdrive, and are leeching CO2 into the soil to try and correct the problem.
 
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I am using Soil, Canna Terra Professional. It came at 5.8ph buffered strongly. I found this far too low and always believed soil should be more like 6.3-6.5. So i added lots of lime and flushed it heavily (recirculated the flushing water and adjusted the Ph as the water went down and the soil went up.



I just looked at Canna's website, from what I saw they don't sell soil.. The 'Canna Terra Pro' is the only substrate I saw and its not soil, its a peat based soilless mix, which would explain why the pH was at 5.8. IMO you changed the pH of the medium too high which would explain the deficiencies you are experiencing.

Canna Terra Pro mix came pH buffered with lime at 5.8 because that is within the optimal range of soilless mediums, i.e. peat moss and coco coir, for nutrient uptake. You thought it was 'soil' so you added more lime and high pH water which brought the pH of the medium within 6.3-6.5, which is not optimal for peat based or other soilless mediums.

You are correct in your line of thinking, soil pH around 6.3-6.5 and so on, but you are using a peat based medium and when the manufacturer uses lime to balance the pH to a specific acidity, like 5.8, don't change it, unless you know exactly what your doing when adding other mixes and/or amendments.

I understand it can get very confusing on what is soil and what is soilless, IMHO if there is no compost in the mix, then its soilless. Another thing, whether its organic or not, has nothing to do with being soil and/or soilless. Its all about ingredients, for example, Sunshine #4 has peat moss, perlite and coco as the medium, which makes it soilless, it also has lime and yucca extract, but those are to buffer the pH and a wet the medium evenly, basically they have nothing to do with the definition of the medium itself.

Another example, here is the ingredients list of Fox Farm Ocean Forest:

Ingredients: Composted forest humus, spagnum peat moss, Pacific Northwest sea-going fish emulsion, crab meal, shrimp meal, earthworm castings, sandy loam, perlite, fossilized bat guano, granite dust, Norwegian kelp meal and oyster shell (for pH adjustment).

Now if you look at the front of a bag of Ocean Forest, it will say 'Potting Soil', that is because it is a soil. The reason its soil is because of the composted humus, that in and of itself makes it a soil. There is peat moss in the soil mix, but it is an amendment, when peat moss and/or coco coir is used as the primary ingredient with other 'hydro' substrates, such as perlite, then they are considered soilless.

Basically, its the compost that makes soil, a soil, there are plenty of hydro/soilless amendments you add to soil just like perlite, but its still soil, just like Ocean Forest. Now if you use a hydro/soilless amendment by itself in a bucket to grow, like perlite, then its considered hydro. If you use peat and/or coco in another bucket by itself then its considered soilless.

IMHO, a soil medium should have a pH between 6.2-6.7, soilless should stay between 5.8-6.2, and DWC, (you know, straight H2O as the medium) should be around 5.5-6.0, depending on growth phase. Just my opinion bro, don't take my word for it and please do your own research, good luck!!
 
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to be fair - i've kept coco at a media ph of 6.5 with no issue. I'm definitely thinking there's simply too much lime in there.

i just keep thinking to myself - he puts the lime in the coconut
 
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Damn , I started writing my post above before squigg's was posted, I'm slow as fuck. But I am drinking beer, smoking cigs and sealing light leaks on my grow room door in between paragraphs :cigar:
 
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to be fair - i've kept coco at a media ph of 6.5 with no issue. I'm definitely thinking there's simply too much lime in there.

i just keep thinking to myself - he puts the lime in the coconut

So did you water in at 6.5 or was run-off at 6.5, or both?? Also, was your coco pH buffered str8 out the bag??
 
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to be fair - i've kept coco at a media ph of 6.5 with no issue. I'm definitely thinking there's simply too much lime in there.

i just keep thinking to myself - he puts the lime in the coconut
It's not really correct to discuss "soil pH" this way.

Everyone needs to understand two things:

#1: The prevailing general knowledge about pH, and indeed even the best conception of it in undergraduate chemistry studies, is entirely wrong and false. pH is by and large treated as the concentration of hydrogen ions. In fact is the hydrogen ion potential of a solution. The pH theory you are familiar with is a lie which allows you to use most of the best benefits of the knowledge we have of acid/base chemistry without actually having to understand it. Don't feel bad, they don't tell you this till you try to get a doctorate.


#2: Soil, peat, whatever--none of these are solutions. They are mixtures, and frankly not even homogeneous ones. They are about as far from a solution as it gets.

"Soil pH" isn't pH at all [and neither is the pH you've been using], its a measure of the buffering capacity of the soil. If you put in a dickload of lime you should basically always water through until your runoff matches what you're putting in. The idea of buffering soil is to resist drastic "pH" change. Not to totally prevent up or down movement in "pH" altogether.

This is what has been done here, I will nearly guarantee it.

Imagine the following:

1. Your root hair turns on proton pumps (pumping out H+ ions into the medium) trying to acidify the soil.

2. The protons react with an excess of lime and deplete very little of it.

3. No change in medium.

4. No uptake.

Uptake operates according to a "give and take" model in plants. If you have put in an excess of just about ANY substance--it will upset this balance according to Le Chatlier's Principle which I will continue to remind people is applicable in many areas of life (not only gardening and chemistry) and constitutes worthwhile reading for understanding. Just ignore the math and understand the concept.

As a good practice, always start your soil/peat/cocoa, under acidic conditions--and drift the pH up as you go along. Early on, plants get fucked especially hard by super basic conditions.

Bennies, for the most part, feel the same way (though "natural" diversity will increase as you get closer to 7pH).
 

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