Who wants to kill some root aphids?

eyecandi · Jun 7, 2011

Onespark said:
Eyecandi - Thanks so much for helping out here. Your input is greatly appreciated and I loved meeting you and your peeps. I am a fan of your sweet tarantula and I will be popping them Durban X WW beans you threw my way with the quickness too! Your Durban is bad to the bone. Thanks bro!!!!

no-no-no .... thank YOU!! this find of yours may save a lot of crops and headaches for folks and provides a great avenue to avoid the chemical menagerie. it's not like we don't have enough of that to deal with.

glad you liked the sweet t. bro, the more she cures the more it reminds me of the old skool skunk, where you couldn't carry a bag around without everyone in a 30' radius looking to see who had it. a couple more weeks of veg growth and I'll be able to take a lot more cuttings to pass on.

:)

treehugger · Jun 8, 2011

altimood said:
I expect good results at this point, but I want to be absolutely sure after such a long struggle... KNOW WHAT I'M SAYIN'!?!:yes
BTW, Previously I stated residual effects could last up to 90 days. That was incorrect as this stuff can kick ass for 9 months. My bad.

Although the MET can work for 9mo, the peak concentration and effectiveness is for a much shorter period. Also, it does not kill 100%, so it will need supplementation with other organic controls to satisfy our rigid requirements. I would not be "burning" the Botancare as of yet.

altimood · Jun 8, 2011

treehugger said:
Although the MET can work for 9mo, the peak concentration and effectiveness is for a much shorter period. Also, it does not kill 100%, so it will need supplementation with other organic controls to satisfy our rigid requirements. I would not be "burning" the Botancare as of yet.

I'm not sure what you mean by Botancare. If you're referring to Botaniguard, that ish is completely ineffective against RA's in my humble opinion. But yes Met "can" work for up to 90 days. I personally don't reuse my soil/coco and I am done vegging and flowering in less than half of 9 months or so. I do plan on using it in conjunction with liquid P as needed and plan on dropping a chunk of green on Met today because IT'S WORKING FOR ME. This stuff is saving my ass right now. To each his own, respectfully. Don't know if you saw the link M_W dropped. But I hear you Treehugger. Wish you the best on your trials and tribulations. Peace. Oh and THANK YOU ONESPARK.

eyecandi · Jun 8, 2011

I'm going to do the same thing altimood, but I'll be mixing it in regularly with my tranplant mixes as a sustained regimen. I still can't find any live or dead ones in any test pots now, just soil mites and a silver colored, fast moving insect I can't identify yet (not gnat, mite or aphid larvae for sure. with it's speed though, i doubt it's a root chewer type). and I agree .... it's saving my ass right now and @ $150 in new seedlings - they are recovering really well.

i'm sold

altimood · Jun 8, 2011

Glad to hear you're getting good results EC. I just caught some FG larvae eating the outer layer of some seedling stalks at my digs. The stem is soft and perfect food for those little bitches. I couldn't believe my eyes man! Its war over here!

max_well · Jun 8, 2011

I also found Botanigard to be ineffective in treatment of our root aphid problem; extended dunks of our coco containers didn't seem to cut the population significantly, and it was very expensive for limited treatments.

Here's another informational doc with some additional info about the Met52 product:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...&sig=AHIEtbRyY3AA949wBD7mjU1tDiTe2FRLXg&pli=1

The parameters required for stated effectiveness seem pretty tailored to the environments we create: the fungal inoculation works best at 70-80 F, and in peat based medium (not heavy soil. I imagine coco would work well). I had some contact with a Novozyme rep and he mentioned that Met52 actually was found to have 15-17 month soil efficacy life in tests done at USDA/ARS station at Oregon State University. Here are some highlights from that study:

If this product is truly effective in killing phylloxera or other root aphids in outside soil crops (which I have not seen any definitive information detailing), then it seems the level of control could be amplified in our well controlled environment and container-pot root masses, that could be entirely inoculated. And it would be much more cost effective and bio-friendly than the chemical-bathing that is the standard way most folks are treating RA in their indoor gardens.
Lets keep investigating.. fingers crossed.
Max

altimood · Jun 8, 2011

FOR SURE MAX. I will keep posting my results as time motors on. As soon as my next cuts are ready (and they already have RA's) I'm going to go with 3 gallon soft pot containers (3x7 configuration=21 per tray) with met in the coco. I have not ran coco prior to this, but I'm going to use cutting edge 3 part with green planet Massive and Finisher in Canna Coco. I dipped my infected rapid rooters in liquid p and the plants are growing. I just need my Met and should be transplanting into the 3 gallons in about a week. So Like I say, I will keep posting with hopes of good results in coco as well.:) Any coco tips? I'm all ears!

max_well · Jun 8, 2011

sounds good altimood
based on the literature, it seems like a good idea to get the met52 into moist coco now to give the spores time to spread in the medium (and keep at ~75-80 F) , before you transplant into it..

" Pre-mixing one-third of the total volume of the potting media with the full amount of product seven days prior to planting (at which time the remaining volume of potting mix was added), allowed for higher populations of the fungus than media not pre-mixed and that lasted throughout the length of his research trial (342 days). "

good luck!

Rajajaja · Jun 9, 2011

sm 90 suck in low humidity... what humidity is optimum for met52? i9d love a sample battling for over a year almost shut every thing down ... Id love to find out hw it works and how long its effective for..

eyecandi · Jun 9, 2011

rajaja .... read the rest of the post and a couple of the links .... answers were already posted.

altimood · Jun 9, 2011

Hey Eyecandi, I know the silvery bug you're talking about, almost moves like a snake with legs. And fast. I don't know the name....
www.donerickson.com/insects/insects.html

I'm guessing they're silverfish. There are some cool websites out there. Colorado Dept. of Agriculture has a newsletter that features the "Bug of the Month". I love it.

eyecandi · Jun 9, 2011

exactly! most root eaters are slow from what I've gathered, which is why I think that one is probably a predator or at least just harmless. i've searched all over ..... 30+ million species of insects in the world makes it tough though, lol. mine are def. not silverfish (love google pics for the wide variety to quick glance).

eyecandi · Jun 9, 2011

behold, the fungus of doom (spores growing off the rice grain). I didn't realize they would colonize the rootmass so much .... that explains the low application rate.

a victim that has a few spores growing from it (can't zoom in close enough, but I see them with the 100x)

as a side note: since it is spreading so efficiently, makes me wonder how many spores are airborne. not too concerned re:human health factor (as the MSDS and other data seems to indicate no issues. but all do recommend standard respiratory gear ..... hmmmmm). however, since the fungus is supposed to be effective on mites/thrips as well .... maybe the extra airborne spores will help control the mite population as well? as a side benefit, I know bee keepers are happy to have more of this stuff floating around :)

max_well · Jun 9, 2011

EyeCandi
Wonderful photo bro..
thanks for that.

treehugger · Jun 9, 2011

altimood said:
But yes Met "can" work for up to 90 days. I personally don't reuse my soil/coco and I am done vegging and flowering in less than half of 9 months or so. I do plan on using it in conjunction with liquid P as needed and plan on dropping a chunk of green on Met today because IT'S WORKING FOR ME. This stuff is saving my ass right now. To each his own, respectfully. Don't know if you saw the link M_W dropped. But I hear you Treehugger.

If you've been seeing the thread, you would know that i have been reading the links and finding my own, and what they say (and i'm trying to tell you), is that the effective kill rate is never 100%, and by week 4 is going to be down to 50%. That means your room is shot by week 6.

Met is not going to be the end-all solution you seem to believe it is going to be, and you are wasting your time and money, and misleading a bunch of impressionable minds with your postings.

What has been learned in these threads is that there is no one solution to this complicated problem. You can go chemical, or you can go organic - but you need to maintain a comprehensive cycle of at least three of your favorite poisons throughout veg and bloom, to exert enough control to maintain plant health and vigor. There is no easy way out if you want to rely on more than hope and dreams.

My real problem with these infective agents is that they are unreliable and even more sensitive to rigid application protocols than more readily available control methods. I'm sure there is a market for product raised under such a regimen, but for my money, the methodology is too tricky and risky to tempt my investment.

treehugger · Jun 9, 2011

eyecandi said:
as a side note: since it is spreading so efficiently, makes me wonder how many spores are airborne. not too concerned re:human health factor (as the MSDS and other data seems to indicate no issues. but all do recommend standard respiratory gear ..... hmmmmm). however, since the fungus is supposed to be effective on mites/thrips as well .... maybe the extra airborne spores will help control the mite population as well? as a side benefit, I know bee keepers are happy to have more of this stuff floating around :)

I saw one reference to a 4 hour re-entry period after treatment - i guess that means it can do some harm. I saw an article relating to some type of scarring eye condition from exposure to the spores. Choose your poisons carefully...

eyecandi · Jun 9, 2011

treehugger said:
I saw one reference to a 4 hour re-entry period after treatment - i guess that means it can do some harm. I saw an article relating to some type of scarring eye condition from exposure to the spores. Choose your poisons carefully...

I didn't see that one, I'll have to dig a little deeper. and I don't think it's an end all, but to be used as part of the regimen (as I said earlier) if it is effective AND safe (I have to work in there all day too). just another tool in the arsenal IMO. (especially considering the cost of liquid Py. that shit will break the bank quick if drenching)

altimood · Jun 10, 2011

:confused0054:

treehugger said:
If you've been seeing the thread, you would know that i have been reading the links and finding my own, and what they say (and i'm trying to tell you), is that the effective kill rate is never 100%, and by week 4 is going to be down to 50%. That means your room is shot by week 6.

Met is not going to be the end-all solution you seem to believe it is going to be, and you are wasting your time and money, and misleading a bunch of impressionable minds with your postings.

What has been learned in these threads is that there is no one solution to this complicated problem. You can go chemical, or you can go organic - but you need to maintain a comprehensive cycle of at least three of your favorite poisons throughout veg and bloom, to exert enough control to maintain plant health and vigor. There is no easy way out if you want to rely on more than hope and dreams.

My real problem with these infective agents is that they are unreliable and even more sensitive to rigid application protocols than more readily available control methods. I'm sure there is a market for product raised under such a regimen, but for my money, the methodology is too tricky and risky to tempt my investment.

All i can say is I'm going to continue to waste my time and money and actually USE it and you can continue to READ ABOUT IT. Meanwhile, I think we can both agree that while young minds are impressionable, they ARE QUITE CAPABLE OF MAKING THEIR OWN EDUCATED DECISIONS. 'Nuff said.:evilgrin0040: Except that the learning is not even close to being done in this thread TH.:evilgrin0040: I can't wait for week six.:)LMMFAO!!!

DoobyScoo · Jun 10, 2011

If you want to save the children,
How's bout cutting and pasting that info dealing with the toxicity?
Or linking it?

Dat be mos def positively recepted.
Danka.

eyecandi · Jun 10, 2011

DoobyScoo said:
If you want to save the children,
How's bout cutting and pasting that info dealing with the toxicity?
Or linking it?

Dat be mos def positively recepted.
Danka.

agreed. we are trying to help determine if this product is effective and safe or not. if you found something relevant, post it. don't just do a drive by with information blanks.

I spent another 3 or 4 hours last night researching papers and articles, couldn't find anything even close to what you stated. lot of info on the toxicity to @ 200 insect species. used extensively for locust control. used search parameters of "Metarhizium anisopliae health", "Metarhizium anisopliae human health" and "Metarhizium anisopliae toxic health"

you also stated: "My real problem with these infective agents is that they are unreliable and even more sensitive to rigid application protocols than more readily available control methods. I'm sure there is a market for product raised under such a regimen, but for my money, the methodology is too tricky and risky to tempt my investment."

sooo .... taking a couple cups and mixing it into the soil is too rigid of an application protocol for you? maybe it's the respirator? (should be using this with ANY application of any pesticide/fungicide anyways). personally it was a helluva lot easier to apply then anything else. there is nothing sensitive about this stuff, it lives/breeds in the exact environment we provide. and with Liquid Py costing $100-$175/quart (Azamax/Azatrol @ $80/pint) .... the cost is negligable in my opinion. so I guess I'm a little confused by your statement.

Who wants to kill some root aphids?

Who wants to kill some root aphids?

eyecandi

treehugger

altimood

eyecandi

altimood

max_well

altimood

max_well

Rajajaja

eyecandi

altimood

eyecandi

eyecandi

max_well

treehugger

treehugger

eyecandi

altimood

DoobyScoo

eyecandi

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