Who wants to kill some root aphids?

[max_well]

update?

Hey OneSpark and Altimood,
ANy update on the progress of the fungus-baring ladies ? I hope the silence here is just the sound of aphids being slowly mummified...

 

[eyecandi]

personally, I've had some pretty good success with it and it seems to have kept them down and out in the pots I added m52 too as early innoculant as well. the ones I added it to that were in flowering already have recovered nicely.

 

[altimood]

Hey Max-- Sorry for the silence. Things are going well here, having trouble uploading pics, not sure why. But I'm happy to say that all my Met treated plants are going strong. I am, however noticing that the fungus gnats are not being held down. I saw an explosion in the population in some of my plants. It was peculiar behavior in the gnats. They were all hanging out on the OUTSIDE of the met treated pots. I subsequently threw up some yellow cards and threw down a liquid P drench. i also hit the ones hanging out with a blast of zero tolerance spray. I'm having more trouble with f-gnats than RA's now. I did, however, find RA's in my veg room on some Ghost OG's to my dismay. These are in beer cups in coco and I have been waiting for another sample of Met. I'm told its a couple of days away so till then I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'm not running into trouble. Threw down a liquid p drench on the beer cups. I hope to transplant with met Monday...

 

[Onespark]

Hey OneSpark and Altimood,
ANy update on the progress of the fungus-baring ladies ? I hope the silence here is just the sound of aphids being slowly mummified...

Sent you a PM. Yes and yes. Seems to murder RA's thus far. I am waiting for them to come back with my 12 gauge but all is quiet on the western front.... I don't have time for this internet stuff but I am hanging in here for this one.:hi


Altimood - You are good to go now. I can't wait to see the massive Met application!!!!!!!!!!!:mad0233: Those Ghost OG's are gonna love you after this weekend.

I had the same thing where these giant fungus gnats are retarded and wondering around the outside of the pots infected with fungus. But there are still small ones showing up. Liquid P and Bombs eh. I pulled out a bunch of my roots to look at today and all are root aphid free....wowzers.

 

[maestro]

I'm no modern day hydro guru by any means. Several of my friends around here have had RA nightmares lately they got from cut swap'n up north. I tried a couple cuts infected with the RA suckas before my bud knew he had um. My infected cut had no bugs after I transplanted them. He uses a coir blend not certain the exact mix. I used a subsoil per/vermic balanced with dolomite lime@about 1/2 cup to 4 gallons. Makes the per on top rusty in appearance, helps keep total availability when feeding acidic what nots. Also provides minerals itself n breaks down slow.. great stuff. Seems to also kill soil bugs. I don't think they can handle the caustic nature of the lime. Just an observation because I haven't battled a big infestation but ya may wanna try fortifyin your mix with d lime. Certainly wont hurt the plants. Damn aphids n worms n mites get me itchy when I think of them. Sometimes I hate bugs. :animal0012:

peace

 

[altimood]

Got Met!

Got that Met 52 and now can start running some coco action. So I transplanted my plants into 3 Gallon soft pot containers applying 10 grams of Met 52 around the roots. 10 grams ended up being an 1/8 of an inch on the bottom of a beer cup. I did find RA's in my babies 4 days ago and decided to hit them with a dose of Bayer Complete to switch things up a little. That seemed to help as my roots are still dental white, like an Orbit gum commercial. Just when I think they are gone they keep coming back. Any way, here are some pics and an updated pic on the Met treated flowering plants. I'm really liking the results of Met 52 as a preventative an will continue using it.

The younglings are Fire OG x Gorilla Grape clones. The flowering plants are Pink Bubble Romulan cuts and they smell like sour grapefruit. Real potent fumes and nice crystals are emerging from these lovely ladies. :banana1sv6:

 

[eyecandi]

conclusion (for me): The product works and is worth the $$ for continued preventative measures. a little over 30 days since I worked it into the cycle. Initially hit the pots with Liquid Py 5% + triaz - this did a decent job (esp on the small 4" pots and the 16ox cups), but I still found RA in my 5gal pots and mothers. Introduced the M52 to several tables of 5gal that were still showing infection, within @ 2 weeks I couldn't find a living RA anywhere. however, the fungus gnat population spiked up heavily for a week+, but now I can't seem to find many of them either. My continued maintanance includes Neem and Azamaz (watered in, alternating) every 2 weeks and alternating between spinosad, azamax and horti-oil for spray @ once a week. moms got Bayer tree/shrub

 

[max_well]

Thanks for the updates.. glad to hear of your success with the Met.
I received long awaited package of met on wednesday and transplanted coco plants that were getting rootbound in 2 gallon pots into 5 gallon, with the grains of met52 mixed into the medium.. I was surprised at the sparse amount of product that the recommended dose called for-- it's hard to find grains of rice once it's mixed into the coco that was used for transplant. I'm thinking I would have better off distributing the grains pot-by-pot during transplant, as shown in Altimood's photos above, as that would be a more certain way to get the right amount in each plant..

I also would have liked to have been able to get met in the mix sooner, as I know that the RA have been present in these plants for some weeks, despite giving them steady treatments of Merit75 and liquid pyrethrin (Evergreen 60-6) dunks. All plants have good root mass and have been drinking and growing well, but some exhibiting signs of deficiency that I guess is due to aphid presence-- within the same strain some showing signs of deficiency more than others, despite all getting the same nutrient feed; I've come to learn this is indicative of varying levels of aphid damage. I hope it's not too late for recovery if the Met52 can keep the populations significantly down. I plan to flip in a few days and continue with some use of the pyrethrin during flower. I'll try to get some photos tonight to document the progression.

Of note in my struggle with RA is that the type/stage of root aphid I've seen in my recent grows is similar to the one in this video linked in post #531 here
As is described here, I also haven't seen the "tank beetle" , dark colored looking aphids, but more the lighter "root lice", more transparent or yellowish type/stage of aphid development. I'm curious if they are significantly different from those Colorado folks are battling in indoor gardens. thanks to Onespark for setting up the Met52-- love to hear more about folk's experiences using this as a preventative/treatment.

 

[Dorje]

I had my 1st run in with ras recently... they went weeks without me noticing, and the ras got the best of a couple plants, one SFV Kush and one Bruce Banner #3. All other plants were contaminated with the little f$%kers but the OG and OG cross were the only ones to show any negative effects. Either they are more sensitive (likely) or they were contaminated to a greater degree than the other plants. I used Azamax, which seemed to be very effective and kept the other plants from getting damaged. It still sucks to lose a couple plants but obviously it could have been a lot worse. I expect the ras to come back eventually, but the plants are close enough to being finished so at this point it doesn't matter.

I will be ordering some Met52 shortly and mixing it into my soil for the next round, and I hope to be bug free. I'll let you guys know how it goes...

 

[max_well]

just found this:
I found this:
www.fargro.co.uk/prodmanl/met52-tech0311.pdf
"
looking on the 2nd page under recommendations: Generally speaking, when plants are feeling well, so is the Metarhizium fungus. If pots are changed and the old ball of soil around the roots has not been treated with Met52, the effects can be disappointing. It is therefore preferable to first shake the roots when repotting, and to use treated potting compost from the start when growing sensitive crops."

This doesn't bode well for transfer into Met52 treated media, if the bulk of root mass is in an untreated medium... this kind of tempers my hope that my current grow will be significantly helped.

 

[altitudefarmer]

Is it possible the spike in fungus gnat population you guys are describing is actually winged adult root aphids? They will leave the treated medium to survive. Sometimes they just don't have anywhere to go. They could go to hell though, if it were up to me.

 

[altimood]

I can say with certainty it was f-gnats. It was a strange behavior. I was blown away by it because it was so visible treated to non treated container. It almost makes me think the Met was making them retarded or creating an inhospitable environment for the shits. The f-gnats were alive but reluctant to fly, at least it seemed that way to me. So I don't know. I'm wondering if beneficial nematodes would survive in Met. I'm continuing on with grow logs and posts here on this thread because the RA's keep coming back in my veg rooms and I want to see what happens with time and continued use through flower. I typically transplant from a rapid rooter plug or equivalent to a beer cup either in soil, or now coco, and I'm thinking that that's when I should introduce Met 52. So for anyone else using Met 52, please let us know your results as well, in any application you are using it in. The more input the better. Thanks!

 

[eyecandi]

AM - I mix it directly into the 4" soil transplants from rockwool clones so they have it from day one. it's also mixed into the standard soil for xplant from 4" into 5gal.

i'm pretty positive mine were not RA fliers as well (my first thought also), under a scope they look exactly like the FG fliers.

 

[max_well]

It's been a week since transplanting my coco plants into five gallon containers incorporating Met52 at highest recommended dose mixed in the transplant media, with an additional ~tablespoon of Met top dressed into the pot at about an inch below the top of the coco. I had seen minor amounts of aphid presence in inspecting the root balls, with slight evidence of associated deficiencies, and have treated with repeated dunks of Merit 75 (imidacloprid) and Evergreen 60-6 (synthetic pyrethrin) while vegging in their 2 gallon containers over the last ~3-4 weeks... They have been healthy enough to exhibit steady root and top growth, and I was hoping that they were in good enough health to recover fully with help from the Met52. Unfortunately they have turned for the worse since transplant -- they had been under 2k and upon transplant were spread out under 4k, and I think the additional light intensity and continued aphid damage has compromised them . It seems that when RA stress /damage is a factor, less is more when it comes to photosynthetic demands of increased light intensity / enhanced co2-- the tell-tale deficiencies amplify under more intense conditions of light and atmosphere I believe.
I don't hold out much hope for this round, and am considering breaking it down.. had put a lot of stock in the Met52, but I imagine it might be more effective if present from earlier stage of growth, or given more time to activate.. However, upon inspection of the the rice grains that were top dressed into the coco, I don't see any kind of fungal branching or obvious mycelium network forming. They have been in moist conditions at ~77f for a week now, which are ideal for the fungal growth, and I thought I would see more signs of this. I'm wondering if the batch I received had been exposed to adverse conditions in the shopping process, although I had it shipped overnight-- the product breaks down at 105f and above. Can those with experience with the product comment on this? Some of the photos in the thread suggest that a fuzzy network extends from the grains-- how long should one expect for this to take place?
well thanks for any insights and good luck to y'all, I'll keep ya posted on my developments.. gonna give things a little longer with fingers crossed before culling and trying to start over clean .

 

[altimood]

Hey Max- can You throw up a pic of those plants? I just want to see how bad they are.

 

[max_well]

sure, I'll try and get some up asap

Hey Max- can You throw up a pic of those plants? I just want to see how bad they are.

 

[eyecandi]

for me, I think it took @ 5-7 days to visually see the spore thing from the grains. the 4" and 1 gal were top dressed, kept a little moist but nothing out of the ordinary (@81deg max temps, avg humidity @ 45%). the grains had sprouted an entire forest of long stalks with spores at the end (like longer stalks/trichs) and it spread from there.

 

[max_well]

thanks for the info eyecandi
hmmm... I'm more than a week in and not seeing any sprouting from the rice grains.. I'll try and snap some photos of the grains today too.

 

[eyecandi]

here is what the 'forest' looks like

 

[max_well]

Eyecandi, thanks for excellent photo!. I'm not seeing that kind of activity on the rice grains in the coco we are planted in, although outside the growroom, in a 30 gallon covered bin of left-over coco that I inoculated with met52 during transplant, some grains of met52 on the surface show fungal growth-- it seems the high humidity in the container has encouraged this, although the grains that are mixed deeper in are not showing anything. Conditions in my growroom are 77-78 F (72 lights off), with ~55-60 humidity.

Here are some (poor quality) photos of a few RA affected plants, and some some shots of the Met52 grains that where top dressed in, ~10 days ago, about an inch under coco surface. These are still in veg actually looked pretty good a few weeks ago.. I was hoping to flip them soon, but it looks like we might just take them all down, as their health has declined pretty rapidly in the last 10 days, and I don't think they could be counted on to recover at this point, even in the absence of root aphids ... The rice grains are definitely breaking down and becoming soggy, but no sign of fungus growth that I can discern, and plants are declining pretty quick... gonna give them another treatment (evergreen 60-6 and maybe bayer complete, which includes an additional contact killer Cyfluthrin, another synthetic pyrethrin, thx for suggestion altimood), and wait out the week to hope for some sign of improvement, but most likely we are gonna break 'er all down and try to start fresh... sux.