Why Aren't Undercurrents More Popular?

[Douglas.C]

This forum seems much less used than 4 years ago, but why? One would think that there are more people growing now than then and that more would see the benefits to using an UnderCurrent.

Is it just too difficult for most people to keep their levels in check?

I remember when Undercurrent first became popular, a few years ago. Never saw the use of it.

DWC is probably the easiest system to grow super clean, awesome quality cannabis and a great yield. The highest quality cannabis I've produced always has the same conditions in flower. A full and cyclic pH swing from 5.4-5.8 and back again. As far as I'm aware undercurrent relies on a fairly steady pH. Not my cup of tea.

The yields being posted were nothing spectacular, when compared to much cheaper, less labor intensive ways to grow cannabis.

Just my opinion. :)

Douglas

 

[smokedareefer]

my current culture rdwc swings more than yours.

maybe 5.4 to 6.2, sometimes i make it possible, sometimes the girls do it themselves. i like it that way.

 

[Douglas.C]

my current culture rdwc swings more than yours.

maybe 5.4 to 6.2, sometimes i make it possible, sometimes the girls do it themselves. i like it that way.

How long does the swing take? Just curious...

My goals in dwc are 5.4-5.8, within about 7-10 days in flower. Never saw reasons to go above 5.8, with the nutrient mix I use. No idea what other mixes would require.

 

[RoeBuck]

I'm coming up on 10 years as a serious grower. At this point, I've about done it all. Photos and autos indoors and outdoors, TLO, soil less, you name it. Granted, RDWC had a bigger learning curve than other methods but it's become my choice way to grow. Even with the required clean up and sterilization following a harvest, it's far easier than soil. I'm running 2 UCXL8 systems. The amount of soil I would need to haul and mix to accommodate 16 plants in 15 gallon pots is more than these old bones can endure. Add to that the need to dispose of that much soil after each grow and, to me, it quickly becomes obvious that RDWC is the way to go.

I think one big mistake people trying RDWC make is trying to run organics. I tried organics my first two grows and the results were pretty poor. Root issues were the big problem. Since going sterile my results have improved greatly and the amount of work required to maintain the systems has dramatically decreased. Most days I spend about 15 minutes in the grow room. Check the pH, ppm, temps, maybe mix the top off res. Through a bit of trial and error I've found that if I have the right mix in the top off res both my pH and ppm will remain very stable. I generally go 18-21 days between system changes.

While I certainly don't consider myself to be an expert, my results are improving with every grow. I still run a small shed with half a dozen autos in TLO, but running photos in RDWC is now my primary focus. If my state ever legalizes I'm well positioned to become a legal, commercial grower. I would not hesitate to set up a large commercial facility running RDWC. IMO it's the easiest, lest time consuming and superior yielding way to grow.

 

[Douglas.C]

Commercial?

You'll find significant savings on labor (one of your highest costs) by going straight dwc. The 'sterilization' times are reduced to a quick scrub and rinse of the res. Infrastructure costs will be significantly less with DWC, simple tubs vs. what rdwc requires. Running airpumps, instead of large water pumps, is a large savings on electricity and start up costs.

DWC is truly the lazy man's hydro for smashing results. :)

Have you read "Ask lucas" before? The reason I ask is because you mentioned using an add-back reservoir for 'stable pH.' In my experience, a full and cyclic pH swing grows vastly cleaner and higher quality cannabis. The old overgrow FAQ (and a lot of misinformed people) talk about using an add-back reservoir for pH stability, when in reality you want a full and healthy swing to be present. I remember a quote from Lucas where he strongly advises to use only plain R/O water for add-backs and is wondering where the "pH stable" junk came from.

Keep up the good work!

Douglas

 

[Herb Forester]

I'm coming up on 10 years as a serious grower. At this point, I've about done it all. Photos and autos indoors and outdoors, TLO, soil less, you name it. Granted, RDWC had a bigger learning curve than other methods but it's become my choice way to grow. Even with the required clean up and sterilization following a harvest, it's far easier than soil. I'm running 2 UCXL8 systems. The amount of soil I would need to haul and mix to accommodate 16 plants in 15 gallon pots is more than these old bones can endure. Add to that the need to dispose of that much soil after each grow and, to me, it quickly becomes obvious that RDWC is the way to go.

I think one big mistake people trying RDWC make is trying to run organics. I tried organics my first two grows and the results were pretty poor. Root issues were the big problem. Since going sterile my results have improved greatly and the amount of work required to maintain the systems has dramatically decreased. Most days I spend about 15 minutes in the grow room. Check the pH, ppm, temps, maybe mix the top off res. Through a bit of trial and error I've found that if I have the right mix in the top off res both my pH and ppm will remain very stable. I generally go 18-21 days between system changes.

While I certainly don't consider myself to be an expert, my results are improving with every grow. I still run a small shed with half a dozen autos in TLO, but running photos in RDWC is now my primary focus. If my state ever legalizes I'm well positioned to become a legal, commercial grower. I would not hesitate to set up a large commercial facility running RDWC. IMO it's the easiest, lest time consuming and superior yielding way to grow.

How many total plant sites would you be comfortable running without hiring a crew? (assuming you'll contract out the trimming or else helpers with machines) And how many per room do you think is the sweet spot for practicality?

Commercial?

You'll find significant savings on labor (one of your highest costs) by going straight dwc. The 'sterilization' times are reduced to a quick scrub and rinse of the res. Infrastructure costs will be significantly less with DWC, simple tubs vs. what rdwc requires. Running airpumps, instead of large water pumps, is a large savings on electricity and start up costs.

DWC is truly the lazy man's hydro for smashing results. :)

Have you read "Ask lucas" before? The reason I ask is because you mentioned using an add-back reservoir for 'stable pH.' In my experience, a full and cyclic pH swing grows vastly cleaner and higher quality cannabis. The old overgrow FAQ (and a lot of misinformed people) talk about using an add-back reservoir for pH stability, when in reality you want a full and healthy swing to be present. I remember a quote from Lucas where he strongly advises to use only plain R/O water for add-backs and is wondering where the "pH stable" junk came from.

Keep up the good work!

Douglas

Show us? I'd like to see one of these larger RDWC operations, sounds intriguing.

 

[Douglas.C]

?

I just explained why you would want to run DWC commercially, not rdwc. Simply from an equipment, electricity and labor costs point of view, DWC is the sane choice.

Douglas

 

[Herb Forester]

Sorry mis-read, lazy me. Would love to see a big DWC though too, how many plants you talkin bout? How does the labor for changing each site work?

For you guys afraid of dirt, that's just once it's under your nails, beforehand it's called soil.:cool: They do make gloves ya know, and there's not much reason to be carrying that shit back out once it's mixed and in place. All these ops buying new media each time, then stuffing in smartpots and tossing it overboard at the end, that shit trips me out.

 

[Douglas.C]

Sorry mis-read, lazy me. Would love to see a big DWC though too, how many plants you talkin bout? How does the labor for changing each site work?

No worries. :)

Standard is a 60-70 gallon res for each light, 600-1000w. Plant numbers change veg times and canopy management methods, not much else.

Labor for site change is simple, plants are only in 5-6" netcups with a handful of clay pebbles. Once the plants are harvested, I clip the roots off the bottom of the netcup and yank the stem out of the pebbles over a bucket. The pebbles are washed and re-used. I generally throw the netcup away, it can be reused a few times, depending on the damage the roots did to it. :)

Air stones are checked for performance, low performing ones are discarded, good ones are rinsed and put in a bucket with r/o for re-use. Air lines are wiped down with a mild bleach and water solution.

Reservoir is pumped out, roots raised and drained and bagged for disposal (still looking for a way to use those). Then the lid and reservoir are scrubbed with soap and water and rinsed really well. Commercial I'd probably use bleach or starsan or something, just as an extra precaution.

The reservoir is put back in, filled, airstones and lid replaced and new clones in pebble filled netcups are put back in. VERY simple and efficient.

Douglas

 

[smokedareefer]

not exactly your 60 gal res but i have 1 lady standing alone in a 27 gal tote with 2 stones and theres no comparison to the rdwc.
to be fair though im putting iced bottles in the tote and using a chiller for the other.

 

[Douglas.C]

Yes, you're comparing apples and oranges. It's ok. :)

 

[smokedareefer]

no what im comparing is my dwc to my rdwc and showing with a picture why i say, imo there is no comparison

 

[Douglas.C]

Correct, there is no comparison.

Your setups are not valid comparisons though, so we're saying different things with the same words. (edit: bad wording)

You're not comparing equal setups to each other. Is that better wording?

 

[ken dog]

no what im comparing is my dwc to my rdwc and showing with a picture why i say, imo there is no comparison

Use a 27 gallon bucket in a RWDC and you'd be killing it over your DWC.

Or, try DWC in an 8 gallon bucket compared to an 8 gallon bucket RDWC setup... they wouldn't grow equally...the RDWC would kill it.

 

[jumpincactus]

my current culture rdwc swings more than yours.

maybe 5.4 to 6.2, sometimes i make it possible, sometimes the girls do it themselves. i like it that way.

I like a good range of swing as well. Lets the rhizosphere take up elements that may otherwise be missed at locked in rock solid levels. But then there are some strains that dont like a wide variation. So its strain dependent I guess.

 

[Douglas.C]

I like a good range of swing as well. Lets the rhizosphere take up elements that may otherwise be missed at locked in rock solid levels. But then there are some strains that dont like a wide variation. So its strain dependent I guess.

I've found all strains (so far, in 15+ years) to handle a full 7-10 day pH swing of 5.4-5.8 perfectly well. Not a single variation. I've also used lucas and then a modified lucas formula (and res management methods) throughout all those years.

So perhaps more 'balanced mix' dependent?

 

[timmur]

I'm just gonna go ahead and weigh in here in spite of my lack of experience.

@Douglas.C
How can managing individual buckets be better, easier, than RDWC where the nutrients and cooling are centralized? I couldn't imagine managing 10 + plant sites with DWC vs. RDWC. Maybe you could enlighten us on how this would be easier to manage or even manageable at all? I'm not arguing that RDWC will out yield DWC, though it probably would. I'm just thinking about the difficulty in managing multiple plant sites using DWC methodology.

 

[Douglas.C]

I'm just gonna go ahead and weigh in here in spite of my lack of experience.

@Douglas.C
How can managing individual buckets be better, easier, than RDWC where the nutrients and cooling are centralized?

I use a 70 gallon res (with 45gallons of nutrient) per light? I don't mess around with individual buckets, I mono-crop one strain per reservoir. Stupid simple.

 

[timmur]

Ahh got it.

 

[smokedareefer]

Douglas,

any pictures of your system?
tia