Why not make a nute tutorial sticky ???

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budfarmer

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Hey guy's with new grower's showing up looking for info almost every day why not make a nute tutorial sticky ?? Obviously we have some of the best cannabis nute guy's you can find anywhere so rather than answering the same old same old questions again and again which seems to frustrate some lets do a tutorial starting very very basic and moving on through each nute cannabis needs as well as the various sources.
 
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budfarmer

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What basic nutes do you need to grow cannabis ?
N Types of N and sources, which N sources work best with Dirt/Hydro ect.
P Types and sources of P
K Types and sources of K

How do you measure each nute so you can calculate a formula, PPM's ??

What micro nutrients do you need to include in your nute mix ? Measured in ?? ppm's ?

What macro nutes do you need ? measured in what units ?? ppm's ?

What about the Ratio's of these nutes ?
 
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budfarmer

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Portaide I have looked through a lot of stuff like the fatman guide but they quickly go beyond the basic's before you have mastered the basic's and degenerate into squabbles between the masters but thanks for the suggestion I'll take another look.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

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I just googled for "Western Fertilizer and Soil and this popped up. You can get that book online for under 10 buck if you look.
This I guess is the handbook for it, I did not bother to go through it. A lot of info out there if you look. Anyway you do not need to use any funtickets for it. JK
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CD8QFjAD&url=http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/is/ffldrs/frep/pdfs/completedprojects/08-0007.pdf&ei=SQWzU-2XKoGeyATOr4LIDA&usg=AFQjCNHud7PS7qE4jZ7ZGB2cJfB-PDHigg&bvm=bv.70138588,d.aWw



And another freebe
 
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Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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<looks through her book of E-tickets to share some with Jalisco Kid> Hey, how about the Haunted Mansion? Should be nice in there on a day like today. :walkingdead:
 
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budfarmer

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O.K. ....
Nitrogen ! Types of nitrogen are ? Calcium Nitrate
Urea
Amonium Nitrae
???
???
and you measure and calculate Nitrogen in what units ?? ppm's ? micro grams ? or WTF ?
There are Advantages to using one Nitrogen source over another in different situations some work better in soil and some in hydro and other times a blend can be added. What are the advantages of 1 Nitrogen source over another or a blend of sources ?? Anybody want to chime in ?
 
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budfarmer

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Seamaiden you gotta stop smoking that stuff ..........
 
miko

miko

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I would also love a nutes for dummies kind of guide. If I could feed the same simple mix for flowering that would be awesome.
I guess its back to straight miracle grow.... Lol
 
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budfarmer

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Thanks for the link milko, Understanding nutrients and fertilizers for Dummies is a great idea people can adjust their own mix to benefit from charateristic's and properties of different fertilizers but of course you need to know what they are, for example Calcium nitrate used alone often causes the ph to constantly want to rise which is a bad thing especially in Rockwool while Ammoniacal nitrate tends to suppress this tendency of the ph to rise constantly so there is a benefit to using a blend of Calcium Nitrate and Ammoniacal nitrate as your nitrogen source ! Yes we need a nutes fer Dummies and in no time we will be able to soar with the nute Eagles like Capultator and SnowBlind.
 
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budfarmer

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This product from Plant Prod actually looks like tip top products the media premix really should be of interest to all growers it pre charges your growing media with Micro Macro nutrients, these are commercial products to bad the premix only comes in 50 lb bags.
 
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budfarmer

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Thanks JK two excellent articles on Nitrogens used in agriculture, anybody inoculate their plants like they describe in the first article ? Now what about K ? what is the source of K and what types of K are there if there is more than 1 source.
 
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Protaide

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Here's another good paper that covers pretty much all of what your asking also. http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/programs/nmp/Nutrient Management for CCA.pdf

You'd asked about how nutes are calculated and what they are measured in. For the most part, the measure depends on the area of industry we are talking. In agriculture they go more by Lb/acre (or hectare), however in this specific field they "typically" refer to either % or ppms. If looking from a tissue point of view Nitrogen is often expressed in percent or brands of nutrients are also in percent. When considering nutrient profiles or formulas, all of the elements are "typcially" expressed in ppms. The local "Chem dude" @squiggly, prefers expressions in moles (for solutions), I believe.

When I first provided fatmans' thread above; I was not intending to be sarcastic, but that he does show a chart with "common forms available" for each element (N,P,K,Ca). The paper I just linked in this response also covers common available forms as well. Fatman did not include Urea in his list as that's not typically practicable for much of this industry, however between his chart and other linked papers so far; you should have all common forms. Many times these elements can be found in additional compounds, but are not useable for plants; so in general, there's a small group of things that are used.

I'm not sure if you can make a nutrient building guide for dummies, per se; as building profiles from scratch is more complicated than buying pre-made brands (as it were). On top of just building aspects alone, there are so many variables that change what a plant needs in situation A vs situation B. If a person was to purchase "pre-made" brands, then the mfg. has already done the "building" work and adjusted things for whatever that product is sold for (e.g. coir vs soil vs hydro). If a plant does not grow well with a particular company, then many will try another brand or combo of brands. This kind of switching is much easier to do (and have success with) versus trying to build from scratch or even adjust something off with brand X. To really be able to build things from scratch or even adjust pre-made formulas; a person should have a more complex understanding of nutrient requirements, mediums, environments, diagnosis etc. So, I'm not sure all this could be wrapped up in a "for dummies" guide without the possibility of creating more problems for a grower. As, @Seamaiden says: "don't go chasing numbers" and it is a wise statement.

Now that I've given the proper, "do not try this at home" talk.... If a person still wants to delve into building "profiles" and adjusting things themselves; there are "calculators" available for this to be done. All elements would be measured in Grams or Ml for ingredients and have ppms for all elements on the output. If a person gets into building profiles, then they also need to have target points to reach. Again these target points are going to vary with each situation but there are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of forum pages; regarding this specific topic. Many times profiles are started with, or adjusted by tissue sample testing and many profiles are based off these. Here again though, it would be impossible to condense all of these down to a simple 1+1=2 scenario. Because of this, not many people provide their profiles nor do they tend to suggest such; beyond certain "basic" ratios that is. Often the best advice you'll here, is that the ratio of elements is the most important and in the end; that is the larger truth.
 
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budfarmer

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Protaide thanks for the response for me I'm not thinking of building from scratch but you don't know what your looking at when you buy pre-mixed nutrients if you don't know anything about Nutrients ! Often people need to make changes to premixed nutes to suit the needs of one strain or another, if we don't know what we are putting into the calculator how could we know what the answer or sum total means ? How do they measure nitrogen ? do they rely on the producers numbers ? or is it assumed that Calcium Nitrate is of a certain purity is always to be considered 15% nitrogen = ?
 
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Protaide

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Yes, for the Calculators you put in the Guaranteed Analysis from the Mfg. E.G - if it's a complete formula you'll put in all the % numbers that are listed on the package. If your using a single compound, like CaNO3, then there are analysis for those as well. If you want to know the % Nitrate in a compound (or other elements in other compounds); @squiggly has given formula's for this in his "chemistry questions" thread here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/if-you-have-chemistry-questions.50830/page-7#post-967250. Here again, once you find the % then you can put that into a calculator along with your "main" mixes and adjust how you choose.

Some of the compounds and percentages have already been done for you. Fatman's nute thread and the link I provided above, both cover "typical" percents of elements for many common compounds. Just like a Mfg. is only going to use a small handful of compounds to make all of the ferts possible; if you want to just "tweak" ratios, then you are also limited to a handful of compounds (in general).

Mfg's or scratch builders typically use:
Urea
Potassium Nitrate
Ammonium Nitrate
Ammonium Phosphate
Ammonium Sulfate
Calcium Nitrate


MonoPotassium Phosphate
Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Sulfate

Magnesium Sulfate
Magnesium Nitrate


Calcium Sulfate

Various EDTA Traces (and or)
Copper sulfate
Zinc Sulfate
Sodium Borate
Boric Acid
Potassium Borate
Ammonium Molybdate
Sodium Molybdate

**All the Underlined compounds above are the "typical" types that would be used, if a person just wants to "tweak" aspects of a pre-made formula. These are just chemical and soluble (not so much with calcium sulfate) salts; however there are many organic sources that can be used for elements also, but they generally take "time" to become available.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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@Bangarang -- I do believe @Protaide can help you with your calculations!
 

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