Why not make a nute tutorial sticky ???

[Bangarang]

Ok so i have been researching info about hydro buddy and have a couple questions. What i am struggling with is understanding how to input commercial formulas. Correct me if i am wrong... For example 5-12-26 cal/nit epsom.
Ok so you go to copy commercial nut formula, then you input the percentages off the label or the desired ppms that they give you with the 130 ounces to 1000 gal. Do i change both the P to P2O5 and the K to K2O? Then how do i calculate the density? 130/1000?
How do you stack the hydro, cal/nit, epsom to see your final numbers with all three parts?
I was playing with this for 2.5 hours and i am so confused yet want to figure this important tool out.

 

[budfarmer]

Very nice post Portaide very helpful thank you, if you enter the N as percent how does that get translated into ppm's ?? do the masters doing the calculations assume that 1 gram of N diluted in R/O water equals ? ppm's , how would that work ? 1 gram diluted in 1 liter of water equals ? ppm's, would this also be the case for P & K. Hopefully once I have a good understanding of what these numbers mean I can reverse engineer my nutes and see if they are right for what I need or if they need tweaking. Here is an example, when I use any of the general veg formula's my plant leaves look plain flat but when I use this Jax 10 30 20 which I just bought my plant leaves in a matter of 5 or 6 hours look more jagged on the edges and rippled from vein to vein down the leaf I don't know if this is good or bad but once I can run numbers I may be able to see if I'm in the ball park. Here is a pic.

the pic is not that good but the leaves get like a wash board, maybe from fast growth ?

 

[Protaide]

Ok so i have been researching info about hydro buddy and have a couple questions. What i am struggling with is understanding how to input commercial formulas. Correct me if i am wrong... For example 5-12-26 cal/nit epsom.
Ok so you go to copy commercial nut formula, then you input the percentages off the label or the desired ppms that they give you with the 130 ounces to 1000 gal. Do i change both the P to P2O5 and the K to K2O? Then how do i calculate the density? 130/1000?
How do you stack the hydro, cal/nit, epsom to see your final numbers with all three parts?
I was playing with this for 2.5 hours and i am so confused yet want to figure this important tool out.

I generally use a different calculator and may work well for you in this case too. http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/download.htm The PremixPPM is the one I use. I believe this is the calc that many also use as well and is pretty straight forward. They also have a Nute-O-Rama with many common nutes online available to plug into the premix calc. I will download the hydro buddy and see how you should input information for that program too.

With the premix linked above, it just uses an .XLS file. It comes with the GH 3 part programed in, but all you need to do is go to "guaranteed analysis" tab and input the % of each element listed on the bag. Jacks lists the % along with their CaNO3 and most Epsom boxes list an analysis as well. If any of your nutrients are liquid then you need to also enter the gm/ml into the analysis section (this is weight on bottle divided by ml in bottle). There is also a spot in the analysis where you can enter the cost per gram or TDS per ml or gm / gallon. You don't have to figure these / enter these, but it won't be able to calculate the total EC of solution.
Once you enter your guaranteed analysis (you can have 7 total) you can go to the "Solution Mix" tab. On the top right of that page you enter the reservoir volume you want to work with (e.g. 1gal, 100 gal etc). If your using liquids in your mix, be sure that the "Use weights for liquids" box is checked too. Next all you need to do is enter the quantity of each component you would like to use / or are currently using; into the "Product (solute) section in grams or mls per gallon. To the right of this, will show you the total required for the reservoir volume you entered.
On the left side of this page, you will then see the total ppms of your solution for each element; along with a total "active elements". As well, if you calculated each components TDS per gram per gallon; you will also get an overall EC calculation for the mix. This would work the same if you entered cost per gram; you will see total cost for the mix shown.
Finally you can also click the "calc" tab to see what each item you listed is contributing to your total profile.
Here's a shot of the guaranteed analysis tab and then the solution mix tab as well. In the solution mix picture, shown is the jrpeters recommended dosage and shows a reservoir of 100g. From the pic you can see how much (in grams) to add per 100 gallons and also the ppms of each element if you use jrpeters proportions of those nutes.


I hope this helps for now and I report back when I take a look at hydro buddy too.

@budfarmer The % on guaranteed analysis of N,PK etc is % of weight added and considered from a NO3, NH4, P2O5, K2O basis already. The calculator, at least the one I provide also uses this as well.
With your response to the new nutes, I'm not the best at diagnosis; however I first wonder what the EC was that you added.

 

[Protaide]

@Bangarang
Ok, I've had a bit to look over the hydro buddy. I must say I prefer the premixppm vs hydro buddy. With premix, you play around with components and get to see ppms; whereas with hydro buddy wants you to pre-determine ppms for each element, then it will tell you the weight required. At any rate, here's the process you would want to use for the Jacks mix.

For the experiment; I used the same formula that jrpeters recommends with hydro buddy (same as shown in the right pic above). So, since hydro buddy wants ppms I started with entering the ppms shown in the premixppm; to get a final comparison of the 2 calculators.

1. Run hydro buddy
2. "main page" Enter the desired PPMs for each element (elemental for NPK not NO3, K2O etc) **Here I entered the ppms shown in pic above to see what HB showed for weights, so 145-51-210 etc.
3. Name your formulation, I chose "Jack's mix"
4. Click Substance selection (lol)
5. Hydro buddy comes preset with a formulation already. You will see 2 columns. Left column is the database of compounds and the right column is what's in your "Mix". Remove all but Cal Nit and Mag Sulf from the right column.
6. Click "Add Custom"
7. Name this custom whatever your using "jacks hydro" in this case. Do not use any punctuation only letters.
8. Next input the % shown on your guaranteed analysis for each element. **Be sure to select P2O5 and K2O for those as mfg list as such. (these should match percents shown in above left pic)
9. Once you've entered all the element percents, click "Add to database"
10. Now on the left column of your "substance selection" window you should see this new compound; "jacks hydro" in this case. Highlight that and hit "add"
11. At this point you should now have 3 substances on the right column. Jacks Hydro, Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate. If so, Close the window.
12. Now back on the "main page" enter the "Volume" of solution you are making, that you wish to achieve the ppms we entered in step 2. (For this experiment I chose 1 gallon volume)
13. Hit "carry out calculations" and you should see "result ppms" that pretty much match what we entered in step 2 above.
14. Finally if you click results page. It will show you the required Mass in grams of each component and show a predicted EC.
15. Once your happy with everything you can "add formulation to DB" so it will store your mix and components.

Some shots to help:


If you compare the 2 calcs; hydro buddy shows a result very close to the premixppm. It would probably be a bit closer if I did custom Calcium Nitrate matching jrpeters guaranteed analysis. There is a small bit of variation between the two.
Premixppm using jrpeters recommended: 3.69 / 2.44 / 1
Hydrobuddy shows a requirement of: 3.72 / 2.74 / 0.993

hope this helps

 

[budfarmer]

Portaide, right now I'm trying 10 30 20 at 1250 ppm's I'm just going to have to gage things by eye JR Peters recommends 60g 10 30 20 to 20L water but judging by the way my plants reacted that seems to be way to high ppm's so I dropped back to 45g - 20L water which gives me some where around 1300ppm's, if it looks like I need to I will start to build my ppm's until It looks maxed then I will back off some. And last but not least % of weight added to ?? did I miss something along the way ?
Thanks for taking the time to help educate us Portaide !

 

[Protaide]

I had just meant; if you add say 1 gram of a 20-20-20 fertilizer, then 20% is NO3/NH4 combined, 20% is P2O5, and 20% is K2O. You can then use one of the nute calculators to find your elemental N,P, or K; or you can use @squiggly 's method of getting ppm by molar mass. (link provided on last page for that).
E.G -
The atomic weight of nitrogen is 14.0067 and the molar mass of nitrate anion (NO3 -) is 62.0049 g/mole
to convert Nitrate-NO3 (mg/L) to Nitrate-N (mg/L): Nitrate-N (mg/L) = 0.2259 x Nitrate-NO3 (mg/L)

etc etc, for each element.