Wondering if you could help me make sense of this

[Joe Fresh]

hey, just trying to calculate how much ppms of N i am using in my formula, i was fertilizing @ 700ppm/1.4EC every watering but seen the very start of a calcium issue, which for me is usually related to lockout from ph drop due to having too much salts in the media..i alsonoticed that my plants were dark green, a few looked to have a buish tint, but the worst is flower production is down, i see that the buds are a bit scrawny and shooting out more leaves at the tops than they should..so i gave a quick flush to rebalance things in the media and now i think im gonna lower my dose...im 4 weeks into flower and this is the first time i see the overfert issue, so for it to catch up this late i figure i wasnt over ferting by much..

so i decide to do what i always do(and what i see you do quite often) is look through university papers on other crops, like tomatoes and such..and for tomatoes, they say start at 100ppm of N and work your way up to 200ppm of N for fruit bearing crops..so i figured i need to find out how to calculate whats in my mix when i feed..

i found this



but dont know how accurate it is...im just using some tomato ferts 15-15-30 for now along with some cal/mg and regenaroot...calmag is 3-0-0 and regenaroot is 0-0-1...

http://extension.umass.edu/floricul...oes-fertilizing-plants-growing-soilless-media

so basicly i was reading this article, and decided i should try and mimic it a bit rather than push my plants to max and then dealing with problems(man i miss outddor organics...indoor i just cant...)

so by using the calculator, is says that to achieve a target of 200ppm N then i need to mix 1 teaspoon per gal...being im canadiaan we do everything in liters..i had a 2L jug, which is roughly half of one gallon...so i mixed 1 teaspoon of ferts in the 2L jug, which is double what i needed to mix according to the calculator...ppm came to 1200/2.4EC...so if i divide that in half i get 600ppm/1.2EC.. so it would seem i was overferting by only 100ppm/.2EC, which isnt much but i guess the build up over time took its toll..

so basicly, along with this calculator i found on the net, i used my fertilizer numbers, 15-15-30, and entered the following...

15-15-30 @ .66TP = 131-57-217

15-15-30 @ 1TP/gal = 198-87-328 this mix equals out to about 600ppms/1.2EC

so i also read this thread https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...l-or-my-thread-can-beat-up-your-thread.45906/

and it would seem if i feed @ 600ppm then im close to on target...but how exact is this calculator do you think? and obviously this is not counting in my tap water which is 150ppm...

so what do you make of all this, any advice?

 

[Slowitdown]

Very interesting! At 4 weeks into flower I like to raise my PPM as opposed to lower as you stated. I think at this stage they are hungrier and want a higher dose of nutes. I see you said you had a issue with salt build up? I never have this issue anymore ever since I started using the product Drip-Clean by H&G you should look into it good stuff.

Administered at every feeding, Drip Clean helps to remove salt particles and dirt from the root structure, hoses, and medium of any garden. Drip Clean is compatible with all mediums and solutions. Drip Clean is safe for any plant and can be used with tap or filtered water. As an added benefit, House & Garden’s proprietary blend helps to reduce flush times at the end of every harvest.

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

Mix your N 1st and measure it before you mix the rest, thats how much N you have! It seems as if your over thinking this whole process. Compare this with your previous run, if you havent done one then do one @ recommended doses then adjust as you feel. You must have a pivot to improve. I like to keep shit simple, i can bust my brains and create problems or i can smoke bud and be too lazy to create any, lol! Super stoner to the rescue!

 

[Slowitdown]

Also, Joe you might be to worried about the N issue. Take a look at other factors that could have effected this. You already flushed which is good but at week 4 flower like I said above I wouldn't cut my nute dosage to much. Do you have pics?

 

[Joe Fresh]

alright guys, i dont wanna sound like an all knowing dick, but i do have alot of experience in growing, have ran a few 20 light rooms...my questions is purely on calculating the fertilizer...

i know i had a slight overfert issue, rather than just drop the dose, i like to see where i went wrong and disect each move i made and see where the problem is...thats how i learn so much...

oh, and for those who dont know what drip clean is, theres a whole thread on it on icmag...it does not just leach salts out, its not a flushing agent, its a special acid(pekacid) that allows the ions of salt to not crystalize and keeps drip lines free of buildup...it will even dissolve old salt built up, this is why H&G say dont ever start to use drip clean in the middle of a cycle, always start from the begining, becaus eif you use it in the middle of the cycle there a big chance it dissolves any.all ferts in you media and which may lead to instant plant burn from over ferts...

no i dont have pics, i dont hav a cam anymore, but pics are not needed, i know my stuff in that area of diagnosing....im just purely curious about calculating the ppms, im not too good with the math and was hoping someone could chime in...im not talking about EC or TDS, im talking about acutal ppms

 

[Slowitdown]

Right. Sonofthemourning above you told you what to do if you want to see how many PPMs your N is running at. If you mix the N first without anything else and you PPM meter goes from 0 to 100 wouldn't that mean your N is @ 100 PPM?

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

The difference in ppm by 100 isnt much unless you are at your plants threshhold(strain specific) so try not to bust your balls too much on getting you ppm's exact, waste that time on fine tuning your ph! If not save it! When i measure my ppm i give myself a 50ppm+\- tolerance but stay under 850 and above 350 at all times(except clones and seed). The point in cycle will determine the actual ppm range.

 

[Joe Fresh]

i dont see how i would mix N first..its a one part tomato fert...i went cheap on nutes cuz im on a budget, got almost 400 plants going right now....its a long story..but ya 15-15-30 tomato nutes...cant mix N first


http://www.plantprod.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=PEHqVkjYCXg=&tabid=237

PLANT-PROd
15 -15 -30
POT PLANT SPeCiAL

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

Well then that formula is as close as your gonna get im assuming. the mix is probably missing some micro nutes that may be pot specific. It should work still but results wont be optimal. Im assuming your trying to dial them with a few missing keys. Change your nutes, try jr peters jacks dynamic duo, its a one part, one for each cycle, its cheap and proven!

 

[Coir]

Going by weight rather than Tsp will be more accurate. If you have a gram scale, try weighing out 10 Tsp's one at a time and see what they actually weigh. If they are all identical, then you are much better at scooping up Tsp's than I am!
5 grams/gal will give you 200ppm N with the food you are using.

 

[Joe Fresh]

Going by weight rather than Tsp will be more accurate. If you have a gram scale, try weighing out 10 Tsp's one at a time and see what they actually weigh. If they are all identical, then you are much better at scooping up Tsp's than I am!
5 grams/gal will give you 200ppm N with the food you are using.

ok cool thx, @ 5g/gal comes to 1.3EC...i was feeding @1.4EC every watering...so ill just lower it to 1.2EC and go from there..i knew i wasnt over feeding by much, the plants are still very healthy and green, but you know when you get experienced enough with overfert then you can spot the signs early enough...i even checked my roots, about 60/40 white/yellow...so i know i didnt do that much damage...
https://msds.plantprod.com/document/10497/en/Label
here i found this chart for this product and greenhouse crops...but as you can see for application rates its pretty vague @ 35-135G per 100L(roughly 25Gal), but @ 1.4EC @ 5g/gal it equals to about 125g/100L

 

[Coir]

Looking at the MSDS, it's nice they show the trace mineral content as well. IMHO, 200ppm N would be too high for flowering plants and I would reduce the amount of this food and supplement with some additional MKP. Also, there is no Ca or Mg in this formula so you should be adding those as well.

 

[Joe Fresh]

Looking at the MSDS, it's nice they show the trace mineral content as well. IMHO, 200ppm N would be too high for flowering plants and I would reduce the amount of this food and supplement with some additional MKP. Also, there is no Ca or Mg in this formula so you should be adding those as well.

the 4 ferts i use are liquid cal/mg 3-0-0, 15-15-30 base nute, 0-0-1 regenaroot, and 0-52-31 monster booster......

my starting tap water is 150ppm, i boost this to 200 with cal/mg...then use base nutes to 650ppm, then add monster booster to 700ppm....all @0.5 conversion...i guess maybe my ratios of each migh not be exact, maybe with my starting water i dont need the cal/mag? i add regenaroot as well, @1ml/L which is what is stated on the bottle, i have noticed big differences in root growth and heath with this product.

 

[Coir]

My best recommendation is to get an analysis of your tap water and then come up with a fertilizer plan that gives the plants exactly what they need. It sounds like a lot of work but is quite simple and can end up saving you a lot of money and produce much greater yields. Another option that is not quite as effective would be to switch to a 2 part complete formula that is balanced and gives you a known starting point. Randomly adding different things based on what the plants look like is a dangerous game and you will always be trying to catch up with the plants needs.

 

[Joe Fresh]

My best recommendation is to get an analysis of your tap water and then come up with a fertilizer plan that gives the plants exactly what they need. It sounds like a lot of work but is quite simple and can end up saving you a lot of money and produce much greater yields. Another option that is not quite as effective would be to switch to a 2 part complete formula that is balanced and gives you a known starting point. Randomly adding different things based on what the plants look like is a dangerous game and you will always be trying to catch up with the plants needs.

ya no fuck that shit and 2 and 3 part forlmulas...im not gonna pay for extra water, nor line the nute companies pockets cuz they wanna sell diluted formulas...i like my salt based powders, simple and cheap...ive had great sucess with them, much greater than all liquid lines ive tried....(AN, H&G, GH, ect...)...

i started out using dry powders in the early 90's...had great results..then i switched to liquid in the 2000's, had mediocre result but always with problems, then i switched back to dry ferts and im getting my good results again..the only difference is the soil im using, i used to get a bale of promix and then add a bunch of stuff to it...now im just using promix and thats all....the difference is when the plants need something and im not giving it to them, they can just get it form the soil...so before was more like an organic grow with supplements by chems...thats the way i got the best results...

either way, im def sticking to dry powders, anyon that pays for the extra water they sell you is not using their head.

 

[Coir]

I was not suggesting a liquid as there are not any that I find worth the money. I have had that conversation over and over again with people. Why would you want to pay for water? Never made sense to me. There are excellent 2 part dry formulas that provide complete nutrition. The reason they are two part is simply that certain things should not be mixed together in concentrated forms. As an example, try mixing calcium nitrate and Epsom salt together in concentrated forms and see what happens. Another issue with the liquids is they tend to need acid to keep them soluble which can lead to pH issues.

 

[Joe Fresh]

I was not suggesting a liquid as there are not any that I find worth the money. I have had that conversation over and over again with people. Why would you want to pay for water? Never made sense to me. There are excellent 2 part dry formulas that provide complete nutrition. The reason they are two part is simply that certain things should not be mixed together in concentrated forms. As an example, try mixing calcium nitrate and Epsom salt together in concentrated forms and see what happens. Another issue with the liquids is they tend to need acid to keep them soluble which can lead to pH issues.

true, i have always noticed liquids to lower my ph more, and organic liquids(pura vida, ect...) are ph 3.5, they add a shit ton of phosphoric acid to keep the ph low, this keeps the ferts good for longer, if ph was higher like 6 a good chance the nutes would go bad alot quicker...so they add a shit ton of phosphoric acid to lower ph, then i mix it and add a shit ton of potassium hydroxide to raise ph...not very good if u ask me, and how organic is it if your adding all that ph down before sale, then al that ph up after mixing..

so in terms of 2 part formulas that are dry, can you give me some examples?

 

[turbo14]

Jacks Hydroponics and Calcium Nitrate, That's the two part dry formula I use. Under $100 for a 25 pound bag of each plus shipping. Add Epsom and a booster of your choice. This combo hits over 2# a light for me for over a year.

turbo

 

[Redux]

I dunno. I saw a grower use a LaMotte test kit to determine the exact level of N, among other things, in their hydro res. That was quite a few years ago.

 

[nightmarecreature]

Dark green leaves with a bluish tint is a P deficiency. That's the reason your yield is suffering. Something is wrong, your plants are not getting enough P or it's getting locked out. Also cold weather can lockout P. I had a minor case of this, used a fan controller to keep heat in. Is your room dropping below 50 degree F?